Slashdot Mirror


Your Eyes Will Melt Out Of Your Head

SunPin writes "Slashdotters are doomed. An article from Reuters describes serious health problems from using CRTs (they call them "VDT") for too long. Studies show that we need more studies." So go ahead and expense a three-head LCD setup for your desk.

37 of 273 comments (clear)

  1. Great! by Longinus · · Score: 5, Funny

    This means my insurance will cover the 23" Apple Cinema HD Display I've had my eye (pardon the pun) on right?

    1. Re:Great! by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 3, Funny

      So that's the Apple of your eye?

  2. In Other news .... by EvilCabbage · · Score: 5, Funny

    Scientific leaders today made the discovery that too much of anything, might just be bad for you.

    Yes, even beer.

  3. Study this! by Blackneto · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's not just the CRT, it's the SITTING. All day in one position, gee I wonder if thats going to have an effect on you.
    The only damage I've had from sitting in front of a monitor at work for 10 years is 100 more pounds on my frame than I should have.

    --
    Ursula Andress, Catherine Deneuve, and Charo, twice...
    1. Re:Study this! by e8johan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ok, they mainly complain about the screen, but the conclusions says that it is sitting in front of a computer that is the problem, not radiation from a CRT.

      From this I draw two conclusions: 1) the original article is better than the rewritten summary and 2) LCDs is not the solution.

      I have two tips myself to solve the problem: 1) get an adjustable dest that you can stand or sit at and 2) make sit-ups each morning and evening to avoid back pains. These two points helped me!

    2. Re:Study this! by Psiren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being 100 pounds overweight has nothing to do with sitting down all day. It's more to do with being lazy. You can still exercise can't you?

    3. Re:Study this! by Surak · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's not just the CRT, it's the SITTING. All day in one position, gee I wonder if thats going to have an effect on you.
      The only damage I've had from sitting in front of a monitor at work for 10 years is 100 more pounds on my frame than I should have.


      10 years and only a 100 pounds? Heck, I've been sitting in front of this monitor for the last 20 years. Continuously. :-P They've had to replace it a couple of times. The weight's not what's bad, it's these damn IVs and catheters. I can't walk anymore (not that I've really tried), my eyes can stand the sunlight, and I don't even remember my name anymore. But other than that, no real effects from sitting in front of a CRT, no.

    4. Re:Study this! by IIRCAFAIKIANAL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Interesting points. Could be junk science. Personally, I never believe headlines and I won't even pay attention until there have been several studies from independant sources.

      The problem is we see this stuff published every day - it often gets retracted, but that rarely makes the news.

      --
      Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
    5. Re:Study this! by bigmouth_strikes · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have two tips myself to solve the problem: 1) get an adjustable dest that you can stand or sit at and 2) make sit-ups each morning and evening to avoid back pains. These two points helped me!


      The first tip is a great one, which will save you fro a lot of pain, if you have back problems. The second tip is a disaster, as any chiropractor will tell you. Don't do situps if you have a back condition.

      But you wouldn't take medical advice from /. anyhow, would you ?

      --
      Oh, I can't help quoting you because everything that you said rings true
    6. Re:Study this! by leshert · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nothing in the article (as opposed to the Slashdot summary) attributed the damage to the CRT itself. In fact, they never mention the word CRT!

      A video display terminal (VDT) refers to the whole workstation, not just the monitor.

  4. Oh! by JanusFury · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's why I'm not getting laid! Stupid monitors!

    --
    using namespace slashdot;
    troll::post();
  5. Cause? by ensignyu · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The article doesn't mention or theorize why these symptoms are occuring. We don't know that LCDs are necessarily a solution to the problem, even if they're generally better on the eyes.
    Mental symptoms such as lethargy, anxiety and "reluctance to go to work," as well as sleep-related problems including insomnia and fatigue, were most common among workers who spent more than 5 hours a day glued to their computer screen.
    Maybe it's just from staring at a fixed object without moving for long periods of time? Staring at a textbook for five hours would probably give me those symptoms as well in the short term.
    1. Re:Cause? by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sounds like a classic case of SJS (Shitty Job Syndrome) to me. Vacations and alcohol tend to be the most commonly perscribed treatments.

      I'm sure another study would easily find that people who are generally dissatisfied with their jobs feel exactly the same way regardless of what they actually do.

      And in other news, studies show that eating ice cream increases your risk of being attacked by a shark. (Think about that for a moment...)
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:Cause? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure another study would easily find that people who are generally dissatisfied with their jobs feel exactly the same way regardless of what they actually do.

      You said it, man. I install telecom/data wiring and equipment (no desk, no chair, no CRT) and I have all those symptoms.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  6. Better than flat screen: get one of these by rufusdufus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just got a new Hitachi CP-SX5500W. It is a bright projection LCD that does better than 1280x1024. I am using it for my main computer display. I now have a 72+ inch display. Woohoo! No CRT strain here!

    1. Re:Better than flat screen: get one of these by digitalsushi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The idea is so cool; many of us have considered this before. We're all afraid of one thing, though- isn't the bulb replacement a killer on the wallet?

      --
      slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
    2. Re:Better than flat screen: get one of these by Hadlock · · Score: 3, Informative

      yeah, in theroy, the bulb is about $400, and lasts somewhere on the order of 1000-5000 hours. if you can limit your computer time to 5 hours a day, the life of the bulb is somthing like 4 years.

      until the price of the bulb comes down signifigantly, these will generally be restricted to low use applications, primarily, the media room, and the office meeting room.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    3. Re:Better than flat screen: get one of these by Rolo+Tomasi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Great idea. The bulbs last how long? 500 hours? And they cost how much? $400 a piece?

      --
      Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
  7. expense it? by zephc · · Score: 5, Funny

    "So go ahead and expense a three-head LCD setup for your desk."

    To who, my mom and dad?

    --
    "I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
  8. LSD^H^H^HLCD by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Fortunately, I've mostly ditched CRTs for LCD. I use my laptop to control all the computers I administer, and I connect the CRT I have only in emergency cases, i.e. when the machine won't run sshd so that I can't log in to it. LCDs (I think they are more correctly called TFTs?) are energy-efficient, produce next to no radiation, are small, and don't flicker. On the flip side, they're more expensive and less flexible (resolutionwise) than CRTs. However, 1024x768 is the only resolution I use, and I'm glad to pay a little more for all the goodies I get.

    ---
    Shaw's Principle:
    Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will
    want to use it.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  9. I like this study by UniverseIsADoughnut · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a read it I felt like it was answering my problems. Through college I gradualy found my self in front of computers for greater amounts of time and now feel like as they describe, I can't sleep for crap any more. I ether sleep for 15hrs a day or don't sleep at all. Hell it's 5am and I'm up. I was tired a bit ago, but no more, I have to study for a test but don't feel like it, but I'm up because I'm wanting to study.

    Well guess it's time to make coffee

  10. crt's? what?? by mshurpik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OMG. 20 replies so far and pretty much every one of them mentions either CRTs or LCDs.

    The article mentions displays NOT ONCE.

    The closest it comes is "eyestrain," which is one of several symptoms they examined.

    This article is not about displays, it is about sitting in front of the computer.

  11. "Reluctance to go to work " by guybarr · · Score: 5, Funny


    I can see it now:

    Yes dear, I know I need to go to work and feed our kids, but , you see, those big bad monitors at work are giving me hell. And I have referenced scientific article to prove it !

    people working with monitors are reluctant to go to work. scoop.

    --
    Working for necessity's mother.
  12. Mental Symptoms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    From the article...
    Mental symptoms such as... "reluctance to go to work"... were most common among workers...

    Yeah right, that has nothing to do with having a prick of a manager and doing demeaning and stressful work all day for little reward.
  13. VDT vs CRT by Bemmu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    VDT = Video Display Terminal
    CRT = Cathode Ray Tube
    LCD = Liquid Crystal Display

    In the article summary where the slashdot link leads, they don't mention anything about LCDs being more healthy than CRTs. They refer to VDPs which I would guess is a superset containing both computer systems with CRTs and LCDs.

    I would be happy however if health benefits are found from using LCDs since I've had trouble convincing my friends just with the cool factor.

  14. I got it all by Hanul · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One year after starting my job I got all the symptoms mentioned. I have to sit in front of the computer all the day (>8hrs). I had pains in my shoulders, neck, and lower back, I had eyestrain, and my index finger hurt from using the scroll wheel (that's why a 1-button-mouse is a good thing :-). I also developed some neurotic behavior including anxiety (9/11 helped much to make things worse :-(), and I didn't like the job very much, also the colleagues and the whole environment is really great - also the job is easy and well paid.

    I coped with it mostly by doing one thing: sports. Since I go to the gym 3 times a week, everything went back to normal. No pain, no fear.

  15. Take it all away... by DarkHelmet · · Score: 5, Funny
    The more time an office worker toils in front of a computer, the more likely he or she is to suffer a host of physical, mental and sleep-related ills, Japanese researchers report.

    Yeah, and if I go out and have sex, I am more likely to catch the clap or something like that...

    I feel celibate enough by visiting this site 20 times a day. I feel pathetic enough oggling over female slashdotters who get karma points. Now you wanna take away my 21" CRT to boot.

    To hell with you!

    --
    /^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
  16. There are ways to avoid that by Nicolas42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    First of all, if the problem stem from radiations coming from the screen, the farther you are from it, the less radiation you take. Since they must follow an inverse square law, even a few centimeters can make quite a difference.

    Next, and perhaps more important: do NOT strain when you are looking at the screen. I spend most of my time in front of a CRT, and don't have any troubles. Take some breaks, before you eyes hurt. Even closing your eyes and resting them for a few secoonds is often enough. You can also put your cupped palms on your eyes, not touching them, elbows resting on the desk, and imagine pleasant things. Also, look out of the window from time to time.

    Apart from these obvious things, there is a right way to look, and many wrong ones. Most people who have vision problems, headaches, eyestrain or pain are in this situation only because they use their eyes in a wrong way. If you want to know more about this, take a look at this site.

    Unbelievable as it seems, I've cured myself of myopia, astigmatism and amblyopia in two years by using the method described in there (it's the Bates method). Besides, it's totally free, and this is a non profit site with no advertissement or such. Everything you need to know is in there

    Don't take my word for it, give it a fair try, and see for yourself.

    --
    "Of course I'm french, why d'you think I got this outttrrrageous accent?"
  17. VDT != CRT. by alistair · · Score: 4, Informative
    Nothing in the article or journal they reference talks about the health effects of CRT monitors, the use of the term Visual Display Terminal (VDT) throughout the article seems to be a generic term for any type of monitor used with a PC, be they CRT or LCD.

    To quote from the article
    "While the type of computer work the study participants performed varied considerably, as did the size of the computer used and the work environment, "it should be emphasized that even under such working conditions, our results were extremely consistent over a 3-year period," Nakazawa and colleagues note."
    In a three year study with this number of participants, you sould expect a range of monitors to be used, but they show no exception for LCD users. You can see an abstract of the American Journal of Industrial Medicine study this was based on here or sign up for a trial subscription which will allow you to download the whole study in pdf format.
  18. Data base is 1995-97 by nniillss · · Score: 3, Informative
    This is not about LCDs and not about top-notch CRTs we have today. We are talking 15" or 17" and 60Hz refresh rate.

    Personally, however, I am very sensitive to flicker and lack of sharpness so that I really enjoy my (great) Dell 20" TFT.

  19. Correction by Marc2k · · Score: 3, Funny
    Actually, according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, it is a transitive verb meaning "to write off as an expense". This is a clear cut case of "I think it should be this way, and I've never heard otherwise, so I'll assert it and act petulant." that so often pervades Slashdot. See also Proof By Intimidation.

    expense Pronunciation Key (k-spns)
    n.

    Something spent to attain a goal or accomplish a purpose: an expense of time and energy on the project.
    A loss for the sake of something gained; a sacrifice: achieved speed at the expense of accuracy.
    An expenditure of money; a cost: an improvement that was well worth the expense; a trip with all expenses paid.
    expenses
    Charges incurred by an employee in the performance of work: was reimbursed for her travel expenses.
    Informal. Money allotted for payment of such charges.
    Something requiring the expenditure of money: Redecorating the house will be a considerable expense.
    Archaic. The act of expending.

    tr.v. expensed, expensing, expenses
    To charge with expenses.
    To write off as an expense.

    Source: Dictionary.com
    ..and sorry about being a spelling nazi.
    --
    --- What
  20. Re:safety goggles? by SecGreen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Don't knock the safety goggles.. My brother works in a manufacturing plant, and while he was using a high-speed bandsaw to take a sample of a metal part for destructive testing, the part self destructed sending a _very_ high velocity projectile directly at his face. The face shield absorbed some of the impact as it cracked, and the safety glasses under the face shield distributed the remaining force accross the bridge of his nose and cheekbones. He had a broken nose and racoon-style black eyes for a couple weeks, but at least he still has the use of both eyes.

    And we computer geeks have the nerve to whine about our arses getting sore... There's a simple solution: Drink 2 quarts of water every work day. You'll be surprised how many levels this will work on:
    1. You'll have to get up and take a walk to the loo at least every hour. This excercise and stretching will help eliminate the aches & pains.
    2. With the extra water, your body will be more efficient at eliminating toxins, and you'll generally feel better and more alert.
    3. Keeping a steady flow of water will eliminate cravings for junk food & soda. This will have the long term effect of making you more attractive to the opposite sex!

    Considering that most of the symptoms (including eye-strain) can be compounded by cronic dehydration, this regimin is worth a try!

    regards,
    -sg

    --
    Dupe posts are /.'s tacit protest on the rights of users to time-shift content...
  21. Some tips by tanveer1979 · · Score: 3, Informative
    Well, monitors cant be avoided nor can sitting in front of computer. just take some precautions.

    Do situps(abdominal) after 3 hours of sitting.
    Sit straight, dont crouch
    Keep monitor at eye height
    Add more calcium to your diet
    If you develop back pain, dont IGNORE, go to the doc now!
    remind yourself to blink regularly, not blinking is dangerous
    Try using a screen(3M makes AFAIK)
    Every morning excerise wrists by using the grip builder or clenching unclenching
    Last but not the least, remember, health is wealth

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
  22. Statistically significant != causation by corvi42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Being currently embroiled in a statistics course at university, one of the things that has been recently drilled into my head is that a correlation of factors does not mean at all that the one factor causes the other.

    Firstly, the term "statistically significant" means that the relationship observed was unlikely to occur by chance. This does not mean that there is definitely a correlation, but that there is a probability of finding a correlation.

    Secondly even a very strong correlation when found, does not meant that there is causation, just that there is something interrelating those factors. For example there could be a strong correlation between a person's age and their owning a car. This does not mean that your growing up will cause you to own a car, or that owning a car makes you older. The two variables are interrelated in a system that involves many more complexe factors, but which yields results that keep certain observed factors grouped together. Finding actual causation is much more difficult.

    Thirdly, this type of study is called an observational study, where you send out questionaires and look for correlations. These types of studies have very unclear results generally, and really cannot show causation. There is no talk in the article, for example, of what types of people were responding to the study. Often in voluntary response studies you find that there is an unusually high number of people of one particular tendency who respond more readily than another, so that will skew the results. What you would need to do in order to find actual causation is a set of experiments, with control groups, to show an actual causal relationship between VDT use and health. What observational studies are useful for is drawing attention to a subject and saying we need more attention to this issue.

    Anyway, here I am rambling on to little point. They say in the article that they need to do more work, and that is my whole point. Its just that often people read articles like this and jump to conclusions like "my computer is going to make me crazy and depressive". So just relax and don't worry... yet!

    --

    There are a thousand forms of subversion, but few can equal the convenience and immediacy of a cream pie -Noel Godin
  23. Ergonomics by msobkow · · Score: 3, Informative

    The typical office environment with modular office cube is just about the worst ergonomic environment there is. The cube itself has several problems:

    • Placing the monitor in the corner means the desk wings are constantly in the way of elbows.
    • Desk height is non-adjustable, so it's either too high or too low for the majority of people.
    • Keyboard trays (mounted under the desk) take up enough space that anyone over 5' 10" is going to get whacked in the knees if they try to use it.
    • These units were designed before mice were common, and have no support for them on the keyboard trays.
    • The overhead shelves/bins prevent raising the monitor to an ergonomic height.

    Add to that issues of non-adjustable chairs, cheap flat keyboards (vs. ergonomic designs), poor mouse designs, and you've got a guarantee of neck, shoulder, and back problems before you even turn on the monitor.

    Turning to the monitors, it's usually not a simple issue of LCD vs. CRT, but of monitor quality. Most cube-lands are full of poor quality monitors that came with pre-negotiated system bundles, often meaning they were outdated before the supply contract was first signed.

    As a consultant, I have spent at least half my career stuck in front of blurry, non-adjustable, cheap monitors that I wouldn't even consider for a kids computer, much less someone who has to spend hours a day on it. While far from the worst I've dealt with, my current client environment consists of 5+ year old 17" monitors with poor color, poor contrast, glare problems, low refresh rates, and focus problems (the monitor I'm saddled with can't handle more than 1280x1024 at 60Hz NI. While the resolution is theoretically good enough, refresh rates under 75Hz cause serious eye strain.)

    TFT LCD displays would help the eye strain, but so would high quality CRT monitors (e.g. Sony G420 19", Hitachi CM715 19", et. al.) The problem is that companies are not going to pay for replacement monitors because they can get entire system bundles with cheap monitors for very little more.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  24. SIT-UPS?!@?! by waspleg · · Score: 5, Funny

    i think you just lost your audience =)

  25. Exposure to PHBs is bad for your health by lostboy2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    In another study, researchers have discovered that the tech industry emits lethal amounts of PHBs[1].

    Common symptoms of exposure to PHBs includes irritability, fatigue, nausea and rectal leakage.

    If you suspect that you are one of the millions of workers who have been exposed, you are encouraged to visit your nearest BAR[2] for treatment.

    [1] Pointy-Haired Boss
    [2] Benevolent Alcohol Repository