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Beaming into Space
HobbySpacer writes "At this week's 1st Int. Symposium on Beamed Energy Propulsion in Huntsville a wide range of laser and microwave propulsion schemes are being presented. The big news so far is the announcement by Gregory
Benford of plans for a test of microwave propulsion with the Cosmos Sail, due to fly early next year. The possibilities of using lasers to deflect incoming asteroids & comets are also under discussion."
I hear he has the latest technology in Afghanistan. He has hooked up his recently-dug-up Commodore-64 to a laser emitter and gotten it to accelerate objects to near light speeds.
I'm waiting for when they can do this using one of those medieval catapults.
10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
Ding!
i could not see the pretty pictures. twas already /.ed.
We should land on Asteroids, dig deep into their core, and use Nuclear weapons to blow the things up. Don't the article writers know any sciece what-so-ever?
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
"Scotty beamed me last night. It was wonderful."
-- Spaceballs
Wow. I always thought that the likelihood of an asteroid hitting Earth was low, at least low enough that ther are probably better things to spend one's time addressing... say, hunger, AIDS, yadda yadda yadda.
A larger problem is how to lower the cost of missions to allow for an increase their frequency. If this kind of technology c(w)ould be used to allow humans or unmanned craft more time in space to collect data, I think that would be far more useful.
The quote smacks of FUDing. Oooh, look out! A big bad asteroid could it us! You all saw "Deep Impact", right? Well, better fund us so we can make sure that never happens...
"Content's a bitch."
The inflight meal will not be cold.
Speech: Free
Beer: $699.00
1) Lock all the air and space engineers and astrophysicists together in a big building (with lab equipment, and access to journals and suchnot.) That building at MIT with the mile long hallways would do nicely.
2) Don't let them out until they have a prototype design for FTL.
Physics has become boring and I think we, as a species, have to put our collective foot down as regards this whole no FTL business. You can worry about whether or not black holes emit radiation later, I want a warp drive and I want one yesterday!
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
I expected no less of a FAILURE from a blatant FAILURE with a string of past FAILURES.
"The possibilities of using lasers to deflect incoming asteroids & comets are also under discussion"
Exactly how many Nuclear power plants would it take to deflect a meteor that's of any real global harm?
I think I'll take the meteor myself...
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Now we just need to find some tachyon eddies and we will be off to Cardassia in no time!
but if it has a "Popcorn" button, it's gold!
All your space are belong to us.
TO deflect any sizable asteroid (>1km diameter) will take years even with relatively large levels of thrust.
I cant see lasers helping all that much.
"Open the pod by doors, Hal" > "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" sudo "Open the pod bay doors, Hal" > alright
My question is, what is an intelligent combination -- and why are these people making up vocab.
Massive networking attempt for friends
Is there enough momentum in that laser to actually change the velocity of a flying windows license appreciably enough to make it miss (assuming it's on a collision course - after all - it might blue-screen before it hits Earth and stop say, 62 miles from impact).
The only thing this laser deflection system might buy us is instead of being annihilated by a really fast, frozen rock from outer space, we're annihilated by a piping hot rock from outer space that turns the Atlantic Ocean into a giant thingie of Jiffy-Pop before we all are vaporized, or have our guts ripped out.
Funny how energy expended always seems to come back and bite us in the proverbial arse... How many more movie references can I cram into this post?
another waste of taxpayers money.
NASA really needs to pick its projects
more carefully.
The solution to asteroid collisions was presented several years ago by Pinky and the Brain.
We just build another Earth out of paper mache and move to it before the asteroid hits.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Yeah, how would that even work in space? I thought lasers could push things on Earth because it heats the projectile, and the heat difference causes some reaction with the atmosphere, but there is no air in space to interact with. What gives?
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
What? The articles about propulsion and not some type of transporter-like thing. Damn misleading headlines.
The great advantage of having a reputation for being stupid: People are less suspicious of you.
Vapourising asteroid mass causes thrust by virtue of the gaseous ex-rock moving away from the body of the asteroid.
Now it makes sense. That whole "equal and opposite" reaction thingy. I knew I took science class for a reason.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I think you are being way to skeptical here .
Look, you can say all you want but you are talking about something which can basically wipe us. Not to be a controversialist but wherein AIDS and hunger if you aren't there in the first place. Yes, I agree maybe its not top priority as much as the folks quote but its bloody well important. You think even if we spot an asteroid we can do anything about it.....throw a few nukes doesnt solve it. Want us to be sitting ducks and pray ? Maybe you should take a look again about Schu-Levy?
Also how many times will the AIDS+hunger thing come up ? If your view is right then we should stop all technological innovation and start feeding everyone. It doesn't work that way - we should try to fight AIDS, hunger but at the same time its _very_ important to look forward
No offence. Thanks,
vv
Gregory Benford roooooolz. But because he's not dead we get all these "Charles Sheffield, man, like I really respect his work.." blah blah blah, and no "Gregory Benford roooooolz" posts (except this one).
When are we going to stop waiting until people die before we respect them ? When someone's dead, that's the time to take the piss out of them, because let's face it, they're dead, and their friends and family couldn't feel much worse anyway. When they're alive, if you like them, say so!
graspee
Scrambled egg: 5 minutes
Bacon: 20 minutes
Asteriod: 5 hours on high, serves 10-15
-jokerghost
I thought you weren't supposed to put aluminum in the microwave...
My deviantArt site
Be careful what you wish for. Thanks to fun things such as String Theory, Time Dilation, and Quantum Time Travel you just might get that warp drive... yesterday!
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
Simple. The "reaction with the atmosphere" is that the air is so strongly heated by the beam that it ionizes, expands, and shoots out the bottom of the projectile. Turn off the beam. Wait for the ionized air to get out of the way. Repeat tens or hundreds of times per second.
The asteroid deflection plan would work much the same way. Very high energy pulsed beams would vaporize some of the asteroid material from one side of the rock. That jets off into space, creating a small amount of thrust. Keep the beam on the asteroid until it has enough velocity to miss us.
(Delivering that much energy accurately to the target over astronomical distances is left as an exercise for the student. ;^)
"You've crossed my Line of Death!" "What? No! Where is it?" "Here in the fine print...."
That, or a chesterfield will keep appearing, zipping around, and disappearing on my front lawn driving me nuts - before finally appearing in the middle of Lord's Stadium just as the cricket match is getting, err, "interesting"! Bloody eddies in the timespace continuum.
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
Hmmm, the /. effect is already blasting those sites out cyberspace...
;)
:P
</cheeseypun>
They're talking about solar-sails, but...is there
any mention of how big their proposed solar-sails
will be? I seem to remember that those things have to be frikkin' huge...and I never knew you could propel them with microwave radiation...I though you needed a huge frikkin' laser-cannon for that.
(Yes, I've been reading too much -old- SF
Oh wait...should've read more carefully...they WILL use laser-cannons. Neat, another excuse for the American Government to spend millions on huge orbital laser cannons.
How fast can/will a solar-sail propelled space-ship go? Can I start booking a trip to Mars anytime soon? How long will the trip take?
I'll bring my cell-phone, with all the radiation
that thing puts out we'll be there in half time
Best quote:
--
"Because 'concentrated' energy is hard to come by in space," said Jordin Kare of Kare Technical Consulting in San Ramon, California.
--
Uh...hello? Solar panels? Solar power? Near unlimited power? What am I missing here?
Was the power setting? First we had 1-10 for power, then defrost-cook, and now we just have one setting.
Do we click stop to ignite?
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Oh yes, Scotty Beamed me Twice last night... it was wonderful..
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
No wonder the Russians lost the Cold War, their submarine fleet has no sense of perspective.
I wonder if they can deflect Planet X (do a page search for "Planet X" or "Nibiru")?
One of the nice advantages of Microwaves over
lasers, is that is really easy to make a stearable
beam of Microwaves using the phased array technique. I you make a dipole antenna and feed a
microwave single into it, the signal goes pretty much everywhere, if you put another dipole antenna, next to the first, the two signal interfere results in a more direction beam. If you
have a square grid of antennas, you get a narrow
beam which becomes more focused as the density of
the grid increases.
If all the signals are in phase then the beam goes straight ahead (also straight behind, so you put a microwave mirror, a metal plate behind the antennas at a (half) integer number of wavelength in distances.
To stear the beam, you just put a slight phase difference between each dipole antenna and the ones next to it, so that the phase difference increases with the distance between the each dipole antenna and the first one, thus the beam is stearable electronically. Because there a lots a seperate dipole antenna, the power in each does need to be to large, so you can use fairly ordinary electronic components to produce the beam.
Imagine, building a simple block of antenna, consisting of a 100 by 100 dipole antenna, each
feed by its own 100W oscillator, and with its own
control and stearing computer inside. That should
be fairly cheap to build. Now mass produce these.
Now lets put a hundred of these side by side in a square, you
get a stearable 100 MegaWatt beam and its only 10meter by 10meters big.
You can use this idea to build with conventional
technology a microwave beam as powerful as you like.
Now you don't get much thrust from just reflecting
the energy, 6.7 Newtons per gigawatt. But a constant accelation over time can quickly build up speed in space. You can get a lot more thrust out of the system by using the microwaves to heat a reaction mass, say water in the target craft. I haven't done the calculations, put a powerful enough beam could be used to launch a steam rocket from the earths surface at very little cost.
um. no it wasn't.
The possibilities of using lasers to deflect incoming asteroids & comets are also under discussion
Scientist: Ok *pointing to a screen* here is a little demonstation of our ship, and if you notice the propulsion system here the ship will accelerate very quickly. And here's a shot of it shooting asteroids with the high powered laser, we are guessing the asteroids will break up when shot so we will make sure the laser can quickly destroy any little asteroids as you can see here. Any questions? Ah you in the back *pointing to a reporter*
Reporter: Yes, well I have one question, isn't that just the game asteroids for atari?
Scientist: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS *storms out quickly*
to completely exterminate the human population;
(given its current trend)
and
(assuming
((the absence of a 'miracle cure')
and
(that the number of humans with natural immunity would put us at the very pinnacle of the endangered species list at the very end)))
Might it be possible to calculate roughly how long we have as a species?
And I also don't want any lisp jokes I was just trying to be clear and its not syntactically correct anyway.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
by which I mean extraterrestrial,
in their RIGHT FLAMING MIND would
let us pull something like that off.
Next thing we'd be among the stars
destroying ecosystems left right and
center.
I mean, look how we treat this one,
and its the only frikking one we've got!
In fact if I were an alien, which to the best of my knowledge I'm not, I'd put a flaming FENCE up!
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Your chances of dying as a result of an asteroid hit are similar to your chances of dying from an earthquake or flood. And yet people have flood insurance but no asteroid hit insurance.
The reason for that is that floods and earthquares are local and therefore you can hear about them happining somewhere else and perceive them as a threat. When an asteroids hits Earth there will be no "somewhere else".
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
For propulsion purposes you would need an extremely powerful beam with megawatts of power. Phased array antennas still have pretty strong side lobes. Even if they are attenuated by as much as 40db it would still have enough energy to cook everything in their vicinity. The main lobe of a phased array antenna will still have divergence that will make it ineffective for distances in space.
Masers are coherent and therefore capable of creating an extremely narrow beam with virtually no side lobes. New technologies for masers bring their efficiency from the low single digits to around 50%.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Yeah it was a great program, and the entertainment was nice too. Great blues band!
The only problem I had was trying to use my University network connection to do an online product order, and all you "whackmasters" were hammering the server...
Just let the asteroid hit, that will instantly solve all AIDS/Hunger/{insert favorite charity milk-cow here} problems!
Was pondering microwave propulsion for a week now, without ever hearing about the symposium. It must be the way to go. More specifically, microwave propulsion from ground level to 150 miles and a velocity of 27000 miles per second. Then transition to chemical propulsion for maneuvering in space.
If they destroy enough asteroids, their initials will be remembered forever in the Hall of Fame, but they'll probably just put ASS or SEX or something like that.
Meteor to Earth:
Aaaaahhh, STOP doing that, I hate kids who play with LaserPens!!!!!!
Preparations A through G were complete failures. But ladies and gentlemen, I give you...
Preparation H!
Si metrum non habet, non est poema.