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Taking High School Classes, Online?
AtariDatacenter asks: "I have a teenage family member who has left the formal education system and we're wanting to enroll him into an accredited online high school curriculum. Happily, this is his wish as well. There seems to be a few services available online, but it is hard to tell very much about them from the outside. What should we be looking for? Are there any good deals (as far as quality or cost) out there?"
Isn't there something to be said that going through the social experiences, good and bad, of high school is important in the development of an adult?
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
--instead of asking here per se, a better bet is to seek out your local home schooling organization and get some recommendations from "been there, done that, this is good and this isn't, etc" folks as you'll not only get the actual info, but it will come with the hoops that are needed to jump through that are specific to your location. These are a big variable it appears, state by state.
With that said the "no social life" bugaboo is a red herring that detractors use. Any kid can have a social life. I know families with public only educated, private bricks and mortar only educated, and home schooled. On a scale of adjusted-normal to weird I'd give the nod to the public school kids as being more or less less educated, less informed, and their only acceptable normal behavior seems to revolve around wearing the same clothes in a trendy manner. They learn to clique up. The public schools have changed a lot, they are more social engineering propoganda brainwashing centers then houses of education it seems. They learn to conform and be politically correct and to not "think", only parrot approved dogma.
Yes, I know this is a generalization, this is a general topic, obvviously exceptions exist in both spheres.
Good luck on your quest for real education. And google will find you course outlines if that's all you want. I've forgotten the name but I know there are complete k to 12 outlines available on CD's for reasonable, but I honestly have forgotten the name of them right now.
The teachers are better, the material is less bowdlerized, and the other students have a better attitude. Don't worry about "socialization" -- since the material is covered much more quickly there's a lot more time left over for being with people.
I know that some of you are going to give useless answers such as:
Shouldn't you kid get the social experiences of High School?
Don't do that, get your kid back in High School.
Teach him yourself, don't use online stuff
etc...
This is the worst thing that I can see about Slashdot. People think that those asking questions want life advice, instead of a simple answer. But really, they just want a simple answer. Too often I see questions of "How can I implement this in my school" or something liek that, and people go and just try to convince them that it's not a good idea, instead of answering the question that they asked. If they wanna use Linux in elemetary schools, let them- if they wanna have their kid go through High School online, let them; and give them good advice on how to do it- let them device whether it's the best thing to do. They didn't ask your opinion whether they should...
I am sure that everyone here knows what I am talking about...
Tibbon
tibbon.com
I know that in California you can take a standardized test which, aside from being a piece of cake, will make you a high school graduate in the eyes of the state. I have many friends who took this test around 16, attended community college for their Jr. and Sr. years in high school, then transferred into a 4 Year.
You're just complaining about Slashdot, "instead of answering the question that they asked."
I'm still in high school, but last year I got a letter from Stanford inviting me to join in their Education Program for Gifted Youth as I was already accepted even before applying (they basically asked me because I got a 5 on the AP Computer Science exam, whoopde doo). It seems like a nice program. I didn't enroll because my school offers a lot of AP programs as it is, and that's basically what the school is for. There's Physics courses, Calculus courses, etc. all geared towards the AP exams.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
You're welcome to your opinion, TibbonZero, but I strongly disagree. I am one of those posters that apparently aggrevates you and I plan to continue to post my opinions on these AskSlashdot forums.
This is the worst thing that I can see about Slashdot.
Well, apparently you and I have very different ideas about what this forum is good for. Yes, slashdot is a place where technically competant people hang out. But these people are (for the most part) very thoughtful and intelligent as well. And they have opinions that are worth listening to. Some of them may even have experience with these sorts of problems and would like to share the lessons they learned.
People think that those asking questions want life advice, instead of a simple answer. But really, they just want a simple answer.
Tough bananas. Sometimes these people need to be forced to think about the larger issues. Let's say someone here has already gone this path with their child and found out the hard way that the whole idea is horribly flawed (in their opinion, of course). Are you saying that this person doesn't have a right to share their experiences if they stray away from a simple answer like what software to use?
Slashdot is a forum where highly intelligent and very opinionated people gather to trade points of view with each other. We aren't a friggin' tech support line! ANYONE who posts to AskSlashdot is inviting a critique of their overall approach and philosophy. If they aren't willing to listen to that sort of stuff they can (a) choose to ignore the non-technical comments they get or (b) go ask their questions on a different forum (online or offline) or, god forbid, (c) do a Google search.
GMD
watch this
http://deltahigh.com/
This is the high school that I attend. It uses a proprietary product called Portal that appears to work over Telnet. It's an older interface, however it gets the job done. Myself and some peers set up a Yahoo Group to manage social gatherings and such. We also have online courses available on site. An excellent choice of curriculum is available, and someday they plan to move to a SQL database and 'bad HTML' web-application system. It is a public charter school so it doesn't cost anything to use it. (Other then ISP fees.)
http://pixelcort.com/
-1, Offtopic
For those interested in distance learning, you might find our resource useful: http://www.netc.org/digitalbridges/ We are the Northwest Education Technology Consortium (NETC) at the Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory (NWREL), a private, nonprofit institution. We are not affiliated with any company or distance learning project. See: http://www.netc.org/ and http://www.nwrel.org/
The technology you choose today will affect the choices you have tomorrow.
If it's because of socialization issues then isolating them through an online curriculum isn't probably the best idea. Teen's social lives pretty much revolve around school and while it's not impossible for an outsider to gain a foothold it's harder, a lot more tenuous, and they'll likely be missing out on some valuable experiences interacting with classmates. It may be difficult, and a change of venues may be called for, but like it or not we learn as much about real life in the hallways of a school as in the classroom.
If quality-of-education or content-of-education (i.e. religious or ethical issues) are the reason then look into private schools. There are ones of almost every variety, they generally provide decent educations (some superlative others less so, watch out for the ones warehousing troubled-kids) and if not local then consider a residential program. If there's a subject that interests the youth one can almost always find a school catering to that interest, applying that subject as context across the curricula, etc.
If the youth is themselves a "troubled-kid" then the worst thing I can imagine is disconnecting them from the larger social-environment and the regular support of educational professionals. Not all schools are great places, nor are all faculties and administrations wonderful, but with a parent aggressively championing them a youth with problems can usually get good support from experienced and knowledgeable staff. Likely better then well-meaning but inexperienced parents can do alone or at home.
Having dealt with some home-schooled folks over the years I've found their interpersonal skills to be generally poor, especially when outside of their social niche, particularly in situations involving diverse folks. Also in each case their world-views were severely limited and they had great difficulty empathizing or even understanding people from other backgrounds or of differing lifestyles. Not only were they very intolerant but they were genuinely bewildered when confronted by "alien" ideas and people. Needless to say they usually led circumscribed lives and weren't very succesfull.
Personally I loathed my high school and ended up getting lots of extra credit for "independent study" and taking courses through the state and local universities. On the other hand I'm glad that 2 out of 3 of those offered exposure to lots of peers and near-peers, the by-mail state courses were academically pathetic* and would've been quite isolating. As it was I built a second social circle independent of my high school which provided me with the challenges and support it couldn't.
Talking to my friends who are now belatedly completing college degrees through online programs I hear a litany of complaints regarding the difficulties of asynchronous interaction and limited means of communication. These are difficult for 30-somethings spending large sums of money and with some perspective on life and delayed gratification; asking a less experienced/motivated person like a teenager to deal with these challenges seems doomed to failure. It's hard enough as youth to gain an education and pick up the skills one'll need all through life without serving them impersonally through a bandwidth-straw and browser-window.
-- Michael
* USA, 1985, State of Massachusetts, Department of Education's US-History-by-mail included things like "The first people in America were the Pilgrims". No reference to the natives who greeted them, or to my own ancestors in Jamestown 23 years prior, etc.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
I am a student in a regular high school, but I leave school early and come home to take two classes at FLVS [http://www.flvs.net/]. They offer just about every class you need to take to pass high school in Florida, and they have a rather large amount of AP classes too.
The teaching is done based upon reading lessons and submitting assignments/quizzes based upon them. If you need special help, you email your instructor. Otherwise, your instructor grades papers and sends them back your way.
As far as social skills, it is absolutely nothing like what I do in other classes. For example, my AP Calculus BC class [which I take at normal high school] regularly has chat room study halls, and everyone has eachother's email and im address for help. Our teacher is signed on every night [I'll admit, he is not the most social person... his life basically consists of teaching. This can vary from awesome to dismal depending on your point of view.] FLVS is much more like reading a text book and doing the same type of work over and over. You learn from it, it is just that it gets boring. There is no real social setting [100 page parties, free days, after school study sessions, etc]. The only way you meet your fellow students are through weekly discussions in a few classes, and those really aren't as social as a discussion in a real class. The fascists make you stick to the topic and only the topic... you aren't even allowed to bring in a real life experience to clarify your point of view.
I really wasn't looking for a debate on "is home school bad" / "shouldn't he be socializing". That issue has been decided in this case. The question is more about online high-school learning possibilities.
Socialization issues aside, is online high school really the best option? There's a reason why he dropped out of high school, and it needs to be addressed, something that online schooling might not necessarily do. He may just see it as partially caving to his demands, and then he'll try something more extreme.
Wel I went to public school and look at me im a helpless retard so maybe i should have gone to home school that sounds like fun cause then i could be home cause thats where the oreos are
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"we're wanting to enroll him into an accredited online high school curriculum."
Difficult, because there really is no such thing yet. There are a few (some mentioned here) that are achieving reasonable results, but most schools that even have distance learning capability, only offer for 1 or 2 courses. Looking at each states Dept of Ed web site, which may list the names and link to various high schools may be a good start. Remedial 2 year colleges are sometimes equiped with DL courses also. Really though, even at the university level, DL is not that common-place yet. NOVA is good, Arizona U, and U Mass, to name a few, but unless that is the focus, you'll find the offerings very limited.
Well, I have managed to find a few!
So finding these things isn't too hard. It is comparing them and knowing what to look for, or measuring one against the other that seems to be the most difficult. The Advanced Academics would appear to be a decent choice. Can't really judge the quality from the outside. They seem to be able to hook some students up with financing by basically enrolling them in a remote high school.
Of course, lowest price is not the primary factor here. But it is a little tough to know what to be looking for and to measure one against the other. [shrug] Ideas?
A friend of mine is taking an English course online; all I hear about it from her is that they impose a tight schedule, lack a decent lesson on the material and the course has generally overly high expectations -- oh, and the majority of people taking the course have a much higher tendancy to cheat with their papers and reading assignments.
We offer several online classes here at Bishop High School in Bishop, CA. We had to carefully pre-screen students, and our experience has shown that while online classes are an excellent opportunity for rural or small schools to offer curriculum they otherwise could not, there are drawbacks.
Specifically, the largest complaint was that there is no immediate feedback. Most online courses require logging in, reading lessons, and taking tests. There is little opportunity to ask the "online teacher" spontaneous questions. Most require submitting questions via email, and we've found that if you don't phrase the question properly, the responses can be tangential, or inapplicable.
Also, students MUST be self-motivated. You will set your child up for failure if they get behind in lessons. It is very tempting to put off online lessons because of the "I can read/download it later" syndrome. Parents MUST enforce the required homework and reading. There is no substitute for this at all.
Finally, the on-site "liasion" (usually a certificated teacher) is a crucial link. If a test needs to be faxed in by midnight, that teacher had better be willing to get calls from desperate students who flaked on their test until 11:59pm! This happens, and special dedication is required.
Hope this helps. Please feel free to email or post if you've got specific questions about our online curriculum, and past experience.
Don't Die Wondering
http://www.idahova.org/ is one in Idaho.
I'm an employee of Advanced Academics so I hope I can address some of the misconceptions here.
What we offer is accredited online high school curriculum. 100% of the course is taken online, including testing. No textbooks are required. We have a full time staff of teacher assistants available 24 hours a day. Students enrolled in our system can get help anytime via email, telephone, or even using our internal chat system they can talk to an actual, live certified teacher.
In most cases we partner with your child's school district to give them a turn-key online program. In some states students in online programs receive state funding just as if they were taking classes in a regular school, which makes our program free to those students.
While I agree with many of the comments here about socialization, the primary purpose of our program is to allow schools to help students that can't be helped by traditional means. Sure, most students are better of in a classroom. AtariDatacenter only says that his student has left the formal education system but there are many reasons that kids leave school....discipline problems, sickness, pregnancy, incarceration, etc. Online programs in these cases can help students that simply cannot benefit from a traditional classroom envrionment. Furthermore we help students that need to make up a missing credit, want to get ahead, or want to take a class that their school doesn't offer.
I don't think that online high schools will replace the brick and mortar schools anytime in the near future, but there is a huge population of non-traditional students that can greatly benefit from this type of program. And with the appropriate legislation in place, they can do it for free like other forms of public education.