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Zaurus 5600 Announced
numatrix writes "Sharp just announced the release of the SL-5600 Zaurus today, the followup to the SL-5500 linux pda. Features include an xscale 400mhz processor, 96mb total flash, higher capacity battery, 2.4.18 kernel, built in speaker and mic, and all of the best bits of goodness from the 5500.
Infosync has an article as well."
Where is that YOPY ?
Are there any tweaks/optimizations in the kernel for the xscale processor? It appears pocketpc 2002 from microsoft can't take advantage of the extra power; here's hoping linux can....
No Norm, those are your safety glasses; I'll wear my own thanks...
The PocketPC Windows runs relatively slowly on the xScale because it's not tweaked for the ARM version it uses; any ideas if the Zaurus' Linux is properly optimized?
when is the C300 going to be released in the US? The original Zaurus is nice (don't have one, but played with one in stores) but the keyboard is difficult at best when you've got giant gorilla hands like I do. I don't expect the C300 to be a lot better, but it should be an improvement. Besides, the mini-laptop design looks pretty cool.
-SablKnight
The 5500 was a major disappointment - great hardware (apart from the SD/CF card slots) but crap software - and that includes the O/S - Linux. A desktop operating system - especially one as unfriendly as Linux - does not automatically make a great consumer device OS. And the Java implementation was an out of date joke. Basically Sharp didn't appear to care at all about the quality of the software on the 5500. Let's hope they've made a bit more effort with that on the new machine.
I own an SL_5500 which gives me satisfaction, except when it comes to its batetry life : 2 hours with full backlight, maybe 3 with half...
Will Sharp finally sell an extra-capacity battery for the Z ?
I think this'd be much more appreciable than a puny 96MB (I can't fill its 64, anyway) on a 400MHz Xscale.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Way to read the article! Hell, even the posting above says "Linux" right in there. And yes, the Zaurus runs not only Linux, but offers easy ways to flash out the supplied "distro" and flash in your own. Debian has an ARM port which runs on this device, and there is a great system called OpenZaurus that is available. There is a proliferation of GUIs out there, as the device comes with Qt embedded, which is pretty slick, but can run X as well. There is also something called PicoGUI, but I haven't found any compelling reason to use it yet. You can download SDKs from TrollTech and write your own apps. You could even load gcc on the Zaurus and do your development right on the handheld.
As to the new model (the 5600): other than getting included speakers/microphone and a better battery, I'm not sure the memory changes are that big an improvement (although if you stick to the default "distro" from Sharp, I suppose they are)... running OpenZaurus on the 5500 with all 64mb of the internal memory as RAM (there is also a 16mb flash partition where you store your main binaries), then having a 64mb SD card in the SD slot and using that for all the add-ons, you have quite a bit of RAM and quite a bit of "disk" space. Much better than the default installation. I suppose the faster CPU would be worth quite a bit of the extra $100+ you'll pay for the newer device, but it's a handheld... how fast does it need to be?
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I looked at a 5500 a few months ago. The display was a bit dim and fuzzy, not especially good. The iPaq and the Toshiba (model?) display were considerably brighter and sharper; the Sharp, sadly, had about one of the worst color displays of the units on display.
Now, with cell phones it's not so bad because they're not that costly, but with a PDA like the Zaurus or the Tungsten we're talking hundreds of dollars to fix or replace the thing. What was wrong with "software" based keyboards -- the onscreen ones used with current Palms and PocketPC handhelds?
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Last I saw a Sharp linux-based PDA, it wasn't a PDA, but a pocket-based computer. You still had to partition the RAM between execution and storage, funny ways of launching apps, etc.
Palm has a very elegant PDA solution. And its very difficult to bend it to do non-PDA things (i.e. play MP3s, movies, etc.) SOny is doing a good job, and PalmOS 5 shoudl make things even easier. Then there is this other way where you try to mimick a PDA out of a computer. You lose the simplicity of the PDA but gain the power of a computer.
Is there a ahppy medium, or should we just stop trying to cram the two into one package?
Is it Zauruses or Zaurii?
Zauruses: 1. Zaurus is not a Latin word (and Z is almost never used in Latin); 2. if it were a Latin word, it would be Zauri, not Zaurii.
Same photos in a more convienant format.
I think they made a bad decision on the ram:
Rather than using a split-RAM architecture like the Sl-5500 and Pocket PCs do, the SL-5600 will have 32 MB of RAM that is dedicated to just active memory.
While the Sharp rom on the SL-5500 leaves your hands tied and dedicates the 64MB built-in ram 50/50 to ramdisk and available RAM, various custom ROM images like the Crow rom and OpenZaurus let you move the ramdisk to an SD flash card while freeing up all 64MB for usable RAM.
Having only 32MB for main memory REALLY ties your hands. Is SDRAM really so expensive that Sharp couldn't have used 64MB for main memory?
..is to walk into the server room, plug the Z's serial cable into the server that just died, press "on" and type "minicom" - while your co-worker is still looking at the "lilo:" prompt on his/her laptop.
Yes the serial cable blocks the physical keyboard drawer, but the software keyboard is more than adequete (I'm too scared to use graffiti as root on a production system.)
Can I plug it into a folding keyboard and run emacs? That would blow my m515 away...
You have got to be kidding right?
Screw the bundled apps. This is a Linux machine. You can do stuff with it that you can only dream about doing on a Palm... examples: run ruby, run perl, run Python (the real thing, not pippy), compile applications using gcc, etc-- it does come bundled with a mini-Office-like suite, the Opera web browser and a Java VM. Apps I've got that I like so far: media player (for mp3s), konqueror web browser, "today" application (which presents a snapshot of the day, a feature the PIM on Palm doesn't do well, and even the improved Visor version has only marginal support for), Pac-Man, NetHack, frotz (to play interactive fiction), VIM (text editor), konsole, ssh...
And it does know what it is: Personal Mobile Tool. Says it right there on the case.
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With 32 M of ram and a 400MHz processor, I wonder how long it would take to compile a new kernel from source? (Assuming you had enough CF/SD storage to hold it)
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
I just wanted to give a shout-out to all the current 5500 users... Uh, seriously, though, we should all email Sharp and let them know that it would be nice if they'd kick a ROM update down to us. There are known problems with the current Zaurus software (especially the PIM) that have been fixed in Opie. I know, I know, run OpenZaurus. OpenZaurus has problems too. So it would be nice if we could get an official Sharp ROM update that included the newer Qtopia. Who's with me?
It's still based on the same instruction set, it's just a newer chip. Same sort of change as Intel 486 to Intel Pentium.
I appear to have a blog. Odd.
This must mean that they've made enough mondey from the previous model to justify it.
False. Any number of internal political reasons, previously allocated budgets, or contractual obligations could also explain this. But I agree, it's interesting and I like your optimism.
Don't feel too bad; consider the following info, posted to the tkc mailing list by Shawn Gordon, president of theKompany.com:
-W-
Is it all journey, or is there landfall?
--Ellison & van Vogt, 'The Human Operators'
If your looking for more Linux mobile computing goodness, THIS looks pretty cool. It's not really a PDA as you can't slip it in your pocket, but it's not really a laptop / tablet PC either. It looks like a Linux version of Microsoft's Mira product. Still pretty cool looking...
I own a Palm Vx and a Z5500 and I haven't touched my palm since then. Looking back at my palm, I wonder "how could it ever be sold??". The palm is sooo limited in functionality compared to the Zaurus. First of all, you get a shell, which is (to me) worth every penny of the Zaurus. It allows you to do whatever you want and tweak everything in the OS. OpenZaurus allows you to go a step beyond by installing what you want and freeing up some valuable memory.
:)
The *only* disadvantage I found so far is battery life. With a wireless CF card, you can use it for about 1 - 1.5 hours. Now that's bad. Of course, new 802.11b CF cards (type 2) are out and use less power, but I don't feel like shelling another 80$.
Even if you are not a Linux guru, I recommended it for it's basic features. It runs Opera, you can get any kind of instant message, basic office-type tools, etc. It kicks Palm's ass big time.
The slide in keyboard is just amazing. I have no words to express my happiness
Now like someone said earlier, try running apache and mysql on your palm...Now that's customization!
If you want better words to compare Palm and Zaurus, let's say that the Palm is a nice agenda with very limited computer functions while the Zaurus is in fact a small computer with nice agenda features. That's how I see it. It's kinda like comparing a typewriter with a computer.
-- Leeeter than leet
So did Intel put a transistor or two into the Xscale and run it at 2x clock so they can put a 400MHz label on the part?
I found it very interesting when they came out with the P4. They couldn't product much over 750MHz in the P3 and then all of a sudden they have 1.5GHz chips that benched around as fast as the 750MHz P3's. Like Microsoft has used moving API's to keep ahead of every one else, Intel seem to be using moving instruction sets to keep Intel-inside ahead of AMD-inside...
I was hoping that the Z on XScale would be different than WinCE on XScale. Never heard it was a hardware problem.
I'd mod ya if I could.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
As a long-time Palm user, I used to think that PalmOS was the way to go for an Organizer: tons of apps available, all optimized to be simple, as few clicks as possible to do what you want. With a black and white model, your battery lasts forever, which is more important than colour anyways.
Then I got a Handspring Treo. At first it was awesome. Now I was only carrying around a single device, which was smaller the cell phone it replaced, not to mention the Palm. One device, and it fit in my pocket. Added bonus was the integration of my contacts list. Of course, all the apps were originally designed to work with a pen rather than a keyboard, so they were no longer optimally designed, but I still prefered the keyboard to Graffiti.
Then I hooked up GPRS Internet. Suddenly PalmOS didn not seem so hot anymore. When you're on the internet, you want a real computer, period. PalmOS has about 8 different email programs. They all suck for one reason or another, and they all cost real money. SSH sucks. There are a couple of good web browsers, considering, but they're slow and can't do a lot of things.
It really reminds me of 1993 when I was running Linux with SLiRP and it's predecessors giving me real internet access and the windows users were using ProComm or something and only got a single command prompt.
Bryan
The thing I find interesting is that HP, and others who ship a WinCE based device, don't ship this with the OpenZaurus ROM installed or even on a CD for user installation. Especailly HP since they really started this with www.handhelds.org and the iPaq.
It leads me to believe they have some contractual agreement with Microsoft which prevents this just like the PC OEMs. I know Microsoft payed AT&T $5billion to put WinCE on 5million settop boxes but is HP, Dell, etc being paid to put WinCE on their PDA's? Microsoft could be paying for 100% of the support costs too and that would be attractive enough for anyone selling a WinCE product....
I hope to see the mainstream press pick up this story/product release. It was also good to see IBM and CDL using Linux/Qtopia on that security minded PDA. Many I've shown the Zaurus to said they were going to purchase one when they were looking at WinCE devices. Sharp needs to market this more. IMHO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
* For the resident set size of Qt/Embedded, we get: qpe process, 6.7Mbytes, embeddedconsole, 3.8Mbytes, addressbook, 3.9Mbytes, etc.
Yes but how much of the RSS is shared? Most of the ram usage you list is probably due to shared libraries that all three apps are using. To work out their memory usage (for simplicities sake ignoring other apps sharing the same libraries) you go (qpe RSS-qpe shared)+(qtmail RSS - qtmail shared) + (console RSS - console shared) + shared ram usage. If you just add up those three apps RSS you get 14.4Mb. Obviously that can't be the way things work cause that would mean just those 3 apps exhaust all the available ram of the SL5000 here.
For instance, running qtmail here it uses 4.2Mb RSS, but 3.6Mb of that is shared! So the amount of extra ram now consumed is 400K.
Looking at the QPE process here it is 6.7Mb RSS and 5Mb shared.
I'm not familiar with the Agenda, what functionality does the window manager provide?
In the case of the Zaurus here, the QPE process gets me a window manager, several on screen keyboards, wireless lan monitor, battery monitor, clock, volume control, application launcher, taskbar, document tab, desktop sync server, and probably more i have forgotten.
I suspect the Agenda 75Kbyte window manager doesn't provide all those features. How much ram is used on the agenda once you start up all the extra processes to provide that funcionality?
Also, there is no KDE flab in Qtopia AFAIK, it's just QT based.