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Moving Your Kids to Linux?
"My real motivation to do this is to save money and to teach my children that sometimes the best isn't always the most expensive. Also, being the cheap bastard that I am, I'm looking at all the money we've spent on Windows XP, Office and all the games over the years, and I'm wondering if there isn't a way to slowly supplant Linux into the mix and not sacrifice my children's computer experience but at the same time save some money and teach them something new.
My requirements are simple: I would like them to run their CD-ROM based games (which are mostly Director based games from Hasbro), and I would still like them to chat with their friends and also be able to play online Flash and Shockwave based games from Yahoo and Shockwave.
I believe I'm looking at an OpenOffice situation to replace Office, I suppose that would be fine and I think would work out (they aren't required to have perfect Word compatibility, its basically type a paper, and print it). For chat we're probably OK too, because something like GAIM would be fine -- Jabber based things would also be cool.
But my real concern is the CD-ROM games and Windows based games. I can't see my 3 year-old putting a CD-ROM into the drive and expecting it to auto-load and run like it does on XP -- without issues -- even with a perfect installation of WINE, hey, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a way to have it work as good as windows?
I've thought about loading up Mandrake and getting WINE working to see if it'll work out, but I'm not sure that I should waste my time, so I thought I'd ask some readers here if they're run into this situation and if I'm just crazy for thinking that this would be the wise thing to do at the expense of my children's computing experience."
I have 3 kids of my own and work for home doing some consulting while my husband is off at work. Slowly I've been teaching them how to use Linux Mandrake hoping they will grow up to be Linux Kernel programmers or something ;)
;)
The oldest one (8) is getting good at loading Mozilla and is learning how to type using emacs. The younger two just like all the nifty xscreensavers
They're so cute!
Something else is wrong if you're rebooting 4 or 5 times a week. MS has a bad track record, but so far I've heard XP doesn't crash that often.
Taking your kids towards linux has two benefits here. It can cost you as a consumer less and it will give your kids (with good guidance) a good start in learning about computers and what they are truly capable of.
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
The poster didn't say the kids spend all their free time "on the screen". He seems concerned about them, watches what they do, etc. It doesn't seem to me like he's letting his computer babysit.
Computers are a necessary part of the educational process. Not only are they gaining popularity in the classroom, but they're a fantastic research and learning device. They're more interactive than television, and can be a great secondary source to books (reviews, discussions, etc.) and toys (lego programming languages and the like).
I think it's more likely than not that these kids have toys, games and educational materials beyond the computer. Don't let the fact that you weren't 4 or 7 when you started using the box stop other people from teaching their kids early.
I've got my brother on redhat linux, and it's a pain in the ass for me. He's 13, but all the time he wants me to get something else working - and with linux it all takes so long. besides that i'm a bafoon when it comes to RH (deb rocks).
I don't think he's learning anything, because he just uses mozilla to check his mail and such. He still doesn't know how to do anything with linux.
Let the child decide
..and I've never talked about windows and microsoft with him like we do here on slashdot. Given that, he is able to use both OSes fairly well for his level. Once when I was out i had left my computer on Win2k running and when I came back he typed up a letter for me and drew a picture using Adobe Illustrator..which kinda amazed me b/c I only showed him Illustrator once a long time ago. On the Linux side, he likes the Gnome games as well as Tux Racer and Chromium B.S.U.
I have an 8 yr old bro and although he doesn't use a computer much, I always maintain one in his room for his use. I used to dual boot win98 and linux on his computer like mine (except mine dual boots w2k) so he can choose what he needs for the games he plays. Turns out, he used linux more often than the windows.
Eventually my "support" for his win9x became a nightmare and I just asked him point blank "do you need windows?" and his response was "no, I mostly use Linux".
$cat
My baby loves to listen to music and watch the visualizations in iTunes.. it calms him down when he's screaming and puts him to sleep when he's tired. Also all babies like to look at pictures of themselves and other babies... so the iPhoto slide show also works to calm him down.
Seriously, my iMac is the easiest way to put my baby to sleep... making it a wonderful investment!
Of course, he likes the light on the optical mouse and is always reaching for it and trying to chew on it... which is not a good thing.
I think it would be nice to have a simple rugged PDA type computer to use as a baby toy... it could play music with bright colors.. and run simple little games for toddlers.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Starting them early gives them an advantage. I was editing autoexec.bat when I was 7 and 8 years old, building machines when I was 13. Now I pay for university tuition and books by having programming and hardware jobs. (Debt free student.) Learning early pays.
my dad got our first pc in 1978. when i was born (in 1983) we had gotten a commie 64. i simply can't remember when i first used a computer, because it's been my whole life. i don't know what you're doing with the computer, but my hands feel fine. i think i evolved past carpal tunnel syndrome somehow. the first "OS" i remember using was Power Panel which was really just a DOS gui (and pretty slick, free with a Mouse Systems mouse). then we put in a BNC network and got Windows For Workgroups since dad wasn't actually a tech-head, he was a mechanic. now i use XP primarily with linux on a box i don't actually use for anything except uptime (currently about 2 years i think). so that's what having a child being raised on technology from birth is. not a mozart of computing, just a geek.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
I suggest letting them continue to use Windows XP. If it keeps crashing, they'll complain. When they ask you, "Dad, why does it crash?", tell them honestly that it's because some of the software doesn't have 100% compatibility with the OS. "What can we do to fix it?", they'll ask.
As others have pointed out, the truthful answer is to revert to Windows 98. So why even mention Linux?
What if you asked if they wanted to try out a different OS with different games? Then, install a copy of RH or Mandrake and all of the free games that come with it. Then, set up KDE/Gnome with the right age-appropriate menu for each kid. In this way, you will be using Linux's flexibility to give your kids a better user experience.
Also, what about investing in a bigger HD and copying the CDs to the drive so that your 3 y/o doesn't have to swap CDs and rely on autoload. You could even consider installing VMWare (or maybe Wine, if it turns out to work) so that your kids can go into Windows when/if they want.
Over time, each of your kids will develop preferences on which OS they like.
One caveat, however: One of the best ways to learn about computers is when they're not quite working 100%. Let your kids learn from this on their own. Sometimes, it may take a few hundred program crashes to motivate a kid to read a few HOWTOs.
Amazing magic tricks
A little warning from someone who's been down this road: Carpel tunnel syndrome, thoracic outlet syndrome, and other supposed repetitive strain injuries are all psychosomatic (the physical symptoms are real, but are caused by the mind). When I was 22, I experienced this myself as TOS that I thought I had for over a year, but it turned out to be something called TMS, and once I realized this it went away. To learn more, Google search for: sarno tms. You don't have to have pain, and even more important, you don't have to fear screwing up your hands either (which was my original mistake). Argue this all you want, but I've already been there.
:) Ah well, I can understand them not wanting to put up with the noise.
I used computers since I was 8 (I'm 24 now). I am very happy that I did so because it made my career. In any case, I am very glad my parents provided me with access to computers. I pursued learning computers by my own choice, but they gave me the opportunity. So if a child exhibits interest in computers, by all means give him/her the opportunity, but don't force anything. A little guidance can help, but again don't force anything, only if the child is interested. Do the same with any other interests, be it sports or music. I am still upset that my parents didn't buy me a drum kit when I was 9, despite my constant begging. I would've been a pro by now
We have a 12 y/o girl here and we've been dual-booting for about 6 months. When it was up to her linux almost never got booted up. We wanted her to use linux more, mostly because you have to know more than "click next" to change anything. Now linux is used almost 100% of the time. We did it by forbidding internet access from Windows.
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
No way! They'll be so far ahead that the teacher will just hand all the teaching over to them, and let them get the school over on Linux.
When we got our first computer, it was a really big and horrendous computer. But, contrary to what all my friends had, it couldn't play games. So, I started to program instead. The story was pretty much the same with the other geek in my class. Allthough most kids in my class quite soon would have the same equipment at home as they did at school, they would never catch up with the two of us who had to use harder equipment. Nor could the teachers.
The basic point here is that kids adapt and learn very fast, and few games, well, find something else that's cool, programming for example. And once they've learned some essential concepts, they can very well use any other system, including MS Windows. Like I did, they're just going to find it frustrating to use dumber systems.
Actually, my advice to this parent would be just to drop MS Windows. The kids will figure out cool things to do on Linux, you can bet on it. It may not be the same things they do now, but they'll be more creative.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
There has to be something seriously wrong with your machine. I have 4 XP machines at home. The one I use almost every day I have rebooted for... well I can't really remember the last time but it had to be more than a month or two ago. The computer my kids and wife use the most gets rebooted maybe once a month. I would seriously look at your setup if you have to reboot multiple times a week.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Young kids don't understand the value of a dollar nor the importance of freedom and until they do it's silly to force it on them.
Young kids understand what they are given the opportunity to learn. My 2-year-old knows what money is, and she knows that we have to buy things before we can take them out of the store. She knows where to put the item on the checkers counter, and at which point she will be able to handle the item again. That these things are bought with money shouldn't be difficult for her to understand, and if she hasn't figured it out already it's only because I prefer to be cashless.
Likewise, any kid that has been grounded or put in time-out knows the value of freedom. Relating it to software may not be a simple thing, but they already understand the basic concepts.
The whole "kid friendly software" thing is a straw-man. How many of us had kid friendly software when we were kids? Even the games I loved and played all the time would be considered kid hostile by todays standards, and yet I, a kid, had no problem using them.
Retraining is an adult issue, not a kid issue. Kids adapt quickly and easily, they have to; the bulk of their first 20 years is largely training and retraining.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Agreed. Let them use a computer, play an instrument, etc. if they want. If they don't want though, don't force it. (And do get them to do other stuff.)
Exactly. I was just talking to a friend who's wrists and arms have to be supported. I explained that I've been typing for 22 years (Commodore - age 10) and I don't have any such feelings in my fingers, wrists and certainly not "burning elbows" like she has. Maybe the 18 year-old poster has split his time between a keyboard and one of those new-fangled joysticks with 50 buttons on it -- something I've never touched. I've got another 30 years in my hands and wrists the way they feel today.
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