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Slashback: Newton, Wal-Mart, Eats
Honestly, where would they have unloaded that anyway? yorgasor writes "Yahoo reports that the stolen copies of Newton's Principia have been successfully recovered. The thieves are also suspected of other thefts from several Moscow and St Petersburg libraries."
They have everything. An anonymous reader writes "Looks like Lycoris joins Lindows and Mandrake in being preloaded for walmart.com: 'The new $199 Desktop/LX Certified MicroTel PCs include the Desktop/ LX operating system. Desktop/LX also includes the following incredible software features without any additional downloading:'"
Who needs a war? Krieger writes "I found this link to the definitive browser wars at HardOCP, where you get to play checkers to prove your browsers superiority. Taking the browser wars to a new high/low?"
Here's the hook, can you pass that sinker please ... JoeWalsh writes "According to this article, earlier this month RMS visited India and tried to convince them to use Free (as in freedom) Software. Then along comes Bill Gates this month, handing out free (as in beer) software, and suddenly India isn't interested in RMS's message. A choice quote: "We are a poor country. We cannot develop operating systems and platforms on our own." Did RMS tell them they couldn't use GNU/Linux, or is this more Microsoft propaganda at work?"
I think India's rationale for going with Bill Gates offering over Richard Stallman's offering is fairly simple to explain: Bill's offering a finished product, no polish necessary, at no cost. RMS is saying you can have the greatest software in the world if you put your mind to it and pointing to a bunch of half-written software.
Which would you rather have? Just take a look at the statistics in the places where people can choose to pay for Windows or get Linux free to get an idea of why the opportunity is so tasty to India.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
Oh, please. It's a CHEAP computer in every sense. It's mean to be sold to clueless masses with no cash and no skills, not somebody looking to replace their PIII with custom everything.
It's gonna use the lowest cost stuff they can find and you know what? That's entirely appropriate. Get over it.
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
The PR says it compares to an 800MHz Celeron. Whether it DOES or not, I dunno.
It's not a super-powerful computer, of course, but for $199, it's certainly not a rip-off. I'd have no trouble recommending that to some people.
Maybe it's as simple as giving away disks with GNU/Linux already on them, verses just saying it can be downloaded. Having the disk that can be used (by anyone) to perform an install, is a lot different than having to first download a distros ISO, and burn it to a CD.
I don't know what RMS did on his trip, he may have actually tried to give disks away...
The problem is...it's probably easier to take the hand of someone offering what appears to be the quick fix, rather than reach for the life vest that someone else tossed you.
Give a hand, not a hand-out.
In a quote from the article, Bill says:
"We can save money in terms of speed of development or by being able to run on less expensive hardware."
So I guess that's why WinCE handhelds are less expensive than Palm pilots. Oh, wait, they aren't less expensive. Oh but then there is desktops. Oh wait, what about the $199 walmart PC running linux being less expensive than the Windows counterpart... Considering that Linux runs on just about anything, the "less expensive hardware" just is totally untrue. Let's see Windows XP run on a 386 with 8M ram. Nice FUD Bill.
But at $200, it makes it available to people who couldn't afford it before.
Exactly.
Not everyone needs a blazing fast machine when most home consumers just use the web, email and a word processor. I have a Pentium 233 that still performs these basic tasks quite adequately. For $200, that's not a bad deal.
To whom? Grandma?
Sure, as long as nothing goes wrong with the bos, you're fine.
But, in my experience, with bottom-of-the-line cheapo components, your life can become a living hell in short order if something breaks. I guess as long as I don't have to help them nurse the box back to life, it's a good bargain. Otherwise, I'd recommend that they go with a major namebrand, pay a couple hundred more, and get bundled technical support.
Personally, I think these boxes *are* well suited for newbie/seasoned linux guys who need a cheap starter box or a secondary/backup machine. I'd actually considered getting one myself, for that purpose.
Walmart is the beginning of the end of American Middle Class. They kill a lot of small individually owned mom and pop stores when they move into a town. In the future we will all get to work for them at minimum wage and buy cheap crap from Asia. It is ironic that everyone is up in arms about M$'s behavior but is very passive about what is happening to small businesses. In my view both M$ and Walmart are predatory.
I grew up in the Fulda Gap, where did you?
Hiring (or promising) to hire a whole bunch of Indian programmers. Heck i would adopt windows on a couple of boxen if M$ decides to invest heavily in TI market..after all those people are not going to spend their whole lives working for MS...sooner or later they will move on, and presto! Inda has educated progammers with world class experience!
Live for the present, learn from the past, and dream of the future!
I don't understand how Walmart expects to sell this stuff. The price tag that is on this kind of computer will appeal to the Lowest Common Denominator customer. One that doesn't have money or the internet. So how are they supposed to buy it without internet access? And if they do buy one and when they can't run the lastest games(re:windows based games on it) they will return them. (Or pirate old copies of Windows 98 to run on them.)
Most people "in the know" would avoid them would they not? Most Linux geeks that I know would want high end equipment not cheap junk. I've got an old celeron that has trouble running X. How the heck is this going to run Lindows, lycoris or Mandrake 9?
So I can't figure out who this is marketed at? College students? First time "trailer home" computer buyers?
Some one there made a bad business move IMHO.If you have stock in Walmart I'd sell.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
A diplomat [or insert any M$ name here] is a person who can tell you to go to hell [or buy their products...all the same] in such a way that you are actually looking forward to the trip!
Live for the present, learn from the past, and dream of the future!
Whenever someone says something like that I hear: "We are a very poor country. We are all dunces. We can't raise our standard of living. Therefore we will eat at the crumbs and wallow in our own pity.
It's a shame people don't respect themselves more. And it's not like php requires that much more development ability then ASP does.
-BrentSell a cheap machine and offer the possibility to several linux vendors to get their wares pre-installed. Let them compete with one another and get the best price for the software and the best software packages.
I've gotta hand it to Walmart, they have really figured out how this game should work. I realize that right now, they are offering 3 distros, but ultimately I suspect that, for support purposes it will be easier to trim it down later on. They can just let these guys fight it out for a while to see which one gets the best response from the public.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
You sound as this is a bad thing, (Sorry if I misread your intent) isn't this exactly how a market economy is supposed to work.
Free choice is a good thing and if they have to limit their offering at a later stage at least the "losers" had their chance.
Help fight continental drift.
You've foolishly overlooked a few key important points.
1. MS isn't going to offer this software to India for free forever. As soon as MS deems that they can suck India dry, they'll start charging. Now, they're simply trying to make India dependant on Microsoft, so that people there have to use MS Windows and MS Word. Later on, they'll start charging outrageous prices. Just like what drug dealers do: free to try, addictive, and then you get to pay through the wazoo.
2. Substantial costs of using Windows such as security, downtime, etc have been ignored.
3. The cost of dealing with the BSA and paying them off of they threaten to sue has been ignored.
4. If India needs Windows to do something it doesn't do, they're screwed. If they use Linux, all they have to do is hire a few programmers.
For what the government needs to do, Linux is fine -- perfect, in fact. It can install on many standard types of hardware, and it has some good GUI defaults (i.e., KDE/GNOME) along with good windowmanagers (i.e., WindowMaker). Office suites like OpenOffice are quite easy to use. If they really want MS Office, they can use CrossOver Office.
The most important point here is #1. MS is like a drug-dealer. Sure, they'll give stuff to you for free in hope of making you dependant on it. Then once they're sure you're dependant on it (and they'll do things to make you dependant on it through their updates), they start charging. Sort of like the MP3 FRAUD: let them use MP3's for free, then when everyone's using it and it'll be difficult to switch to something else, suddenly introduce royalty payments. THESE FRAUDULENT FUCKS ARE NO BETTER THAN DRUG DEALERS.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I realize this PC uses older technology, but it is still warranted for 1 year. I hope WallyWorld sells these machines in Mexico, and other countries wherever they happen to do business.
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
If Walmart or Microsoft is going to take over the world, don't moan about it, BUY THEIR STOCK! You'll OWN a piece of it, and probably MAKE SOME MONEY in the process. These corporations exist not for oppression, but rather to make money for their shareholders.
I don't support Microsoft, and I think my money could be invested better in other places, but if I believed they were going to own India and China, I'd consider buying a piece of that pie.
..it's too bad walmart doesn't have these machines on the shelf, or at least one of them, one of the mid range models perhaps. The local walmart here you have a choice of one-an HP I believe-running xp. On the software shelf, xp. I don't see anything wrong with a low end budget computer. that's why these markets have terms like that, high end fulla blinkenlights and quad fans, down to these cheap systems. Something for everyone is a *good thing* methinks. Around here the few independent and white box shops offer almost the same low end config for around 600$ and up in a lot of cases and are getting it (when they sell them), mostly because people just don't know any better. Pickups they know, tractors they know, used or new 4 wheel buggys they know, computers, nope, microsoft=computer=it has to be expensive, and as such most people still don't have them. Just yesterday I saw one guy had a 486 bundle all used everything for 250$. I was incredulous, but I guess folks don't realize that out in the "heartland" there's not enough choice. That's the tradeoffs in a lot of matters. And it's hard to shop around and order online if you don't have a computer in the first place, yes?
I don't necessarily approve of walmart,it's business model in general, not really, but at least there's finally some effort to break the stranglehold of microsoft-only and expensive-only for computing.
Caution! Do not trust Indian ministers specially IT ministers. They barely know anything about Linux other than the name. If you ask them to name a operating system other than that by MS or Linux they wouldn't know. It is a matter of time before they will make the switch.
I attended both the talks they gave in Bangalore.
The general feeling among the audience was never like that you said. But still, there are many FUDs around Linux (oops, GNU/Linux), which RMS didn't care to clarify. He was theoretically and politically correct, but failed to excite common user. They need more assurance, that GNU will serve all their needs, and they'll get support. Whereas, in Gate's talk, it was much more exciting for users to know they can get some freebies from M$.
But, that's it. No body jumped ship as far as I have seen.
Bill is getting more importance here because our politicians are interested in free beer.
Kousik
And, uh... where did you get that copy of Win2K to install on it? Remember, Big Bill and the BSA are watching you!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Guess RMS didn't do his homework. MS actually got in trouble in India years ago for hiring so many Indian programmersand shipping them off to the states. India told MS their programmers are a natural resource and MS can't drain any more. So MS has built a large development facility in India. So RMS is asking India's developers to work for free, Gates is giving them paychecks.
As dubious as the origional poster's claim is... he still has a somewhat valid point. It is possible to make older systems functional under linux that simply would not be at all useful under the latest windows. Of course - Linux "cheats" - it doesn't NEED a GUI to operate.
I've given up on old 386 hardware, but I do have a 486 DX2-66 still running the latest Debian release (Unstable - currently with a Linux kernel 2.4.19). Its a very useful little machine for what I need it for. And the software is current - unlike the suggested DOS 6.22. Granted - this box could possibly handle Win95... but then, that is long past its EOL and is no longer developed. Unlike Linux.
Which brings up an interesting point. Its long been pointed out that Linux' GUI environment has had a bit of a disadvantage... XFree86. Granted, its a tradeoff. There are some advantages. But there has always been that hit on speed from a system like X Windows.
But I wonder if its beginning to not matter anymore.
As I traverse between my Linux and Windows workstations, I've always noted the performance hit for Linux. I'm a sucker for eye candy, so a great deal of that suffering is self-inflicted. But as my desktop hardware has become more powerful, and as the various cycle-sucking eye candy GUI components for Linux are improved, that difference is less and less noticeable.
The GUI is not the only benefactor here. Emulators such as VMWare and "compatability layers" like WINE/Transgaming/Crossover also enjoy the available spare cycles. Even when there is not a native port for the desired software package, running it under Linux is more often a valid option.
Sure, Microsoft has a well-deserved reputation for raising the minimal requirements for a desktop. And the mantra for Linux and its supporters has always been efficency. But in the end, it may be that Moore's Law is becoming more a friend to Linux than Microsoft.
Effecient design and constant improvement should continue to be a part of Linux development. And native applications are better than emulated environments. But it is less likely to be noticed when, for one reason or another, one is forced to rely more available cycles than the perfect ideal.
It should cause some gnashing of teeth in both the Windows and Linux camps. But the irony is that "good enough" has often been atributed to Microsoft's products. With more power in the avarage desktop, Linux may suddenly find itself the new "good enough".
MMX is integer SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data). These Cyrix/VIA processors have 3DNow! which is Floating Point SIMD in addition to MMX so they are more than powerful enough for playing digital video. I'd say that for a low-cost machine, they are pretty darn good value for money. BTW the 3DNow! outperforms the legacy Floating Point by a significant margin. In some cases by 300%. And no, I didn't pull that number out of my butt: libSIMD
Stick Men
Your post is utter BS. All Cyrix processors since the M1 (6x86) have had FPUs. They are just really lousy FPUS, about on a par with Pentium MMX performance. And you suggest that SDRAM doesn't have enough throughput! Most systems now still use PC100 or PC133! Mpeg 4 and 2 playback is no problem! Finally, MMX is for _integer_ performance, not floating point!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.