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Qiuet Keyboards with Tactile Feedback?
zerOnIne asks: "Like many geeks I know, I love good old clicky mechanical tactile-feedback keyboards. I've got an IBM Model M (101 key) on the server, and a Linux CoolKeyboard on my desktop, and I wouldn't want to part with them. The problem is, though, that my wife and I live in a studio apartment, and my desk is necessarily right next to the bed alcove. This poses a problem on nights, like tonight, when I want to get some late-night hacking in, and she needs to get some sleep: my typing can rather loud if I get going. Is there a keyboard out there that can give me the mechanical feel of an IBM-101, but without the noise? As an aside note, whatever happened to the Linux CoolKeyboards company?"
If you ever find one.. let me know if it has the ability to give more violent feedback. Lord knows I'd like to shock people behind their keyboards for the silly or bad questions I get.
"I put a floppy in the front loading cdrom drive... and I can't get it out."
*zot*
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ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
Yet again, Slashdot proves that it doesn't need something so lame as a spell checker. Its spelled quiet folks, not qiuet.
is that French
I know that when I'm at home, my dad can hear my hacking all through the night. He says that I've occasionally woken him up, from down the hall, with the typing. He doesn't hear the soda cans, waterbottle, or sweetbread runs, or the oft curse when something goes "HAHAHA Screw you!" and dies, but that typing. It's maddening.
Then I get yelled at. (*thud*)
Hooray for stealth, yet firm keyboards!
For a while, I had one of those flexi things. Y'know, the rubber ones, with the little like upright foodpad dealies. Worst. Keyboard. Ever. Silent, albeit, but if you pressed the little pad thing that was supposed to resemble a key on a keyboard, the rubber junction just sortof toppled over rather than actually pushing the actuator on the keypad. Freaking annoying.
Informatus Technologicus
You're getting a Tablet PC!
"And like that
Specifically, the newer black ones that come with the desktop systems.
The only keyboard that I've tried in the last 4 months that doesn't stick when I'm typing like mad (and doesn't cause any double-types). Quiet, yet responsive.
Alternately, you can try this puppy.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
That advertised as silent keyboard I was referring to: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fna me=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F010%5F002%5F0 00&product%5Fid=26%2D494. Yeah, it _WAS_ silent... but you couldn't type with it worth a damn!
Informatus Technologicus
where the title is misspelled! Will slashcode v 8.9 come with spellcheck?
http://www.naildrivin5.com/davec
So, in short, you want a keyboard that works like a clicky keyboard, feels like a keyboard, but does not sound like a keyboard...
That keyboard is EVIL. EVIL I TELL YOU. My thoughts about it and such are in the response above.
*glares at MImeKillEr*
*glares at link*
EVIL...
*wanders off, looking totally lost*
Informatus Technologicus
The Customizer
It's made by the same guys who made those lovely clicking IBM keybords, and one of their models is (apparently) designed to give you a similar tactile feel but with less noise. (IIRC from my e-mails to/from one of their sales guys a few years back, they accomplished it by putting a noise-dampening shim into the spring).
Wouldn't it be great if the spellchecker interfaced with your keyboard to produce a shock whenever you misspelled a word?
True Click without the *Clack*
seems quite difficult to give the actual feedback without the sound. moreover, wouldn't the sound be an important factor in the feedback you speak about?
what happened to old school ideas of hacking the hardware yourself?
remove keys from keyboard, spray backside of said keys with adhesive, cover with that cheapo felt powder stuff used in middle school woodshop for making jewelry boxes, re-assemble.
The "click" in this case is caused by a metal spring deforming and hitting the walls of the key cap it's under. It's that spring that causes the "feedback" that people here are talking about. If you ever see one of those old IBM "wing" keyboards that weigh about 40 pounds and don't work with modern computers (sigh) at a garage sale or something, try it out.
found here
one at home, one at work. great feel, proper ctrl placement, and no useless number pad to move your hand over every time you go to use your mouse
Comment removed based on user account deletion
My Pismo, iBook2, and TiBook all have keyboards with excellent feedback and very little noise. I can't type well on anything else anymore, but that's OK, because everything else made my wrists hurt.
However, the sound created is rather tiny. The reason it sounds so loud is that the keyboard, especially the underside, acts as a soundboard. Lucky for your marital peace, you can deaden this effect to some degree.
- Place the keyboard onto some sort of mat, so the sound doesn't travel to the table.
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Attach foam or some other sound absorbing material to the back of the keyboard.
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Place sound absorbing materials around (and above) the computer area. Couch pillows are good for this sort of thing.
All of these things will affect the feedback you get from the keyboard. What I really suggest is that you spend time getting used to a different feeling keyboard, preferably USB so you can connect both at the same time.-Adam
Makes you think.. if an old ibm keyboard's key was depressed by a machine, and no one was there to hear it, would it make a sound? :)
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ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
The IBM KB-9910 provides nice feel, but is pretty quiet. It's the keyboard that came with Netfinities/Aptivas in '99, '00, etc.
_sig_ is away
I use an Apple Pro Keyboard USB (the clear graphite one) on my Linux machine. My BIOS detects it, so I can use it to do BIOS setup as well. It's a great keyboard, and quiet as heck. The only issue I've had is X will map the Apple keys to the Windows keys, which is where my fingers expect to find the ALT keys. I did a quick re-map on them, though so all is well.
Hope this helps!
so it is.
store
less info than their main page (which is apparently down), but it still gets the point across.
One day when I feel right about spending $50-$60 on a keyboard
I used to feel the same way, then someone asked me a profound question: What parts of the computer do you interact with the most?
the answer is the keyboard, the mouse and the monitor.
I contend that someone should spend a larger percentage of the computer cost on the keyboard and monitor. I love my logitec trackman wheel, and I love my old, IBM full clicky keyboard.
If I had to do it now, I'd spend money on one of those 'happy hacker' keyboards or something similar.
Zapman
I bought two keyboards from pckeyboard.com this past summer, and both of them failed within a month. One of them has several keys that don't register at all, the other has one key that doesn't click any more but still registers if you press it hard enough.
I sent back the one with many non-registering keys, and when it came back, none of them were fixed.
Given how much it costs to keep shipping keyboards back to the company, I've given up on it. It was a great idea, but the two keyboards I got don't work, and the company didn't fix them.
Anything worth doing is worth doing badly -- G.K. Chesterton
The Keytronic 3601 series.... I LOVE mine.
d s/ keyboards.html
http://www.keytronic.com/home/keyboards/keyboar
If you have ever walked into a radio shack to touch on of these things, they are NOT a suitable replacement. The keys "squash" in unpredictable directions. The travel on the keys is more than the 101's 33mm. Plus the fact that the keyboard has no natural role (the upper part of the board is vertically higher than the lower), and one of the worst things, is there is no option of stands that allow you to raise the keyboard from the back. And one more thing... every time I see one now in a store, they are broke.
I'm so disappointed to hear this. As an incurable Model M bigot (indeed, typing at one right now), I've been recommending pckeyboard.com to people without having actually purchased any from them myself.
Now I'll just tell people to do what I do... buy the original IBM-branded ones used at computer shows. There are always some for sale cheap, and since they're damn near indestructable, they're a safe buy.
But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
Was Firefrorefiddle, the Fiend of the Fell.
It's a smaller-than-normal keyboard, but the key layout is actually very sensible. I find that for programming, the keys I need most (shift, ctrl, alt, home, end, insert, delete and of course, return) are in the perfect positions. I also do a lot of gaming, and despite the smaller keyboard size it works great for that too. In addition, the tactile feedback is excellent. There's no annoying clicking sound, but there's just enough of a noise to let you (and only you) know that you've successfully hit a key. The keys also have a very light keypress so you don't strain your fingers, and yet at the same time the feedback is just right. It's actually kinda similar to a laptop keyboard in many respects.
Give it a shot. It's only $30 or so, and I think you'll really like it if you can get past the silly silver design.
How bloody hard is it to run through a spellchecker before submission?
Remember that there are no editors at slashdot, only monkeys.
You want the slashdot editors to die from electrocution don't you?
:)
thats pretty mean
~~~
Second, it doesn't have to be loud to have positive feedback. My Logitech keyboard has the exact same feedback as the old IBMs - that's why I bought it - but with less resistance and less key travel. This means I don't have to bang the keys as hard to register a press, so there's less noise.
Third, when you're looking at a keyboard, wiggle the keys around from side to side. Not only does this help select the keyboards that are probably poorly built, a lot of noise can come from the keys sliding around. It's not often that your fingers come down on a key perfectly straight: almost always, you're pushing a little to one side or the other. All keyboards have some looseness, but... well, in my case it was either "a lot" or "very little," with no keyboards in the middle ground. And you'd be surprised at some of the names (and prices) that have a lot of looseness in the keys.
Linux price to performance ratio: Error: Divide by zero. Continue?(Y/N)
I assume you mean performance/price ratio.
I'm using a usb type 6 on my pc right now. It's definitely my favorite keyboard.The only downside was having to patch XFree86 for it to understand the extra keys.
Earplugs!
Why the solution must be on Your side?
Kilroy was here!
that's what I've saying for years. my stoopid assfriends never understood why it was worth it to spend another 30-50 bucks on a better monitor, or to pay 40 bucks for a nice mouse/trackball.
now those jackasses are buying wrist straps and coke bottle glasses.
Burn karma, burn! Flames are getting higher!
Some folks just can't take a little criticism.
I suffer from exactly the same problem. My office is directly opposite the main bedroom. I've had to dampen the sound from the fans and disks, by doing the old trick of adding a diode inline to the fan power, and putting in foam baffles.
However, keyboard click is a problem. I find myself attempting to type quietly which tends to slow me down somewhat. As a matter of fact mouse clicks are a problem too. When I'm coding I very rarely use mouse clicks, (if at all), however surfing the web is something else. The somewhat sparodic mouse click noise tends to wake my wife up more.
So what about quiet mice as well?
-- main(s){printf(s="main(s){printf(s=%c%s%c,34,s,34
One way of getting the audible keypress feedback and have a quiet keyboard is to use audible key clicks. Some PC BIOSes support this, also every OS supports it as well. You could then find an ultra quiet keyboard and then don a set of headphones.
Granted there would be a delay between keypress and sound, (depending on the OS and speed of your poota). But if you use the BIOS to provide the keyclick there shouldn't be much noticable delay.
If you don't like headphones then you can just pipe it to a speaker and adjust the volume.
-- main(s){printf(s="main(s){printf(s=%c%s%c,34,s,34
I recently discovered that my spare Options by IBM SelectEase has some defective keys. I tried to take one of the halves (splits into 2 pieces) apart and found that the underlying PCB layer is held together by what appears to be locking washers attached to plastic pegs. What tool can I get to pry these off? The specific key's spring has been deformed so the force required to press it has increased and the tactile feedback has disappeared (spring no longer deforms to create the clicking sound). What I wanted to do was switch its spring clip with that of a less-used key like F11. I'm well aware the potential havoc that can arise by the disassembly of these mechanical IBM keyboards. More info at PCGuide and here
I know that pckeyboard.com fixes keyboards but with the unfavorable comment here, I don't want to try them since these keyboards aren't being made any more.
Also, what causes keys to repeat intermittently? Old springs?
Shame they are not made any more ... at least I was able to a buy a couple surplus before they became unobtainium. Check out here
for the specs.
I've been using one of the buckeling spring versions for the last year and a half and it is still working very well.
I'm looking for a keyboard, too. Specifically, one that mimics the incredible feel of the keyboard that came with the IBM PS/2 Model P70. It was a 80386 running at 20MHz and came with a gas plasma display that tilted out. It was called a portable computer, and that was being generous as it had to run on A/C and weighed about 20 pounds!
The keyboard had a very light touch but never missed a key press on me. My fingers just FLEW along that keyboard! At the end of the day, I had not even a hint of fatigue from typing, either. It was the best keyboard I've ever used in 30 years of programming, and I've worked on everything from mainframes and minis to PCs. Heck, I started with a teletype which had a built-in accoustically coupled modem that we used to dial up a DEC PDP-8!
If anyone ever made a keyboard like that which I could use with my PC today, I'd buy up several in a heartbeat!
I totally agree with you - the majority of the flexible keyboards do exhibit the odd behavior you mention.
There is, however, a small flexible keyboard - sold at CompUSA and maybe other places - black, round keys, that doesn't.
UNFORTUNATELY it has 5 keys that send a space character (all various sizes), two delete keys, one backspace key, and none of them in pleasant places or sizes. [all the deletes are normal small sized in slightly-odd locations, the return is the old style L flipped, except it's only half as wide as you'd expect]
damned thing. I bought it hoping that the keys sent different keycodes and I could tweak something out of it - no dice. Still good in a pinch - if you suddenly need a usb keyboard - which rarely is of any use in the server room without forethought.
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
On a side note about this article thread, zerOnlne's use of the word "hacker" made me think. I use the word with more frequency now than before. The original slang meaning really applies the word to any programming, hardware workaround. Grabbing other peoples code, script or mark-up and then editing it to do what you want; that is hacking. Ripping MP3s or recording a movie from satellite to your Apple/PC is hacking, really. I would argue that using MS Word to create an HTML page is a hack. Even brewing TEA with a COFFEE maker could be considered hacking. Of how about taking the RevLimiter off your Yamaha or CBR crotch-rocket motorcycle so you can pop a wheelie?
My point here is that politicians and non-tech/non-mechanical people use the term hacking to immediately imply malicious behavior, a threat to the public, like hacking into top secret gov't networks or stealing credit card numbers from an e-commerce site. So, what happens when the FBI (Carnivore) and the new Homeland Security Dept. flag your Slashdot username as a hacker simply because their bots picked up your name posting a message where you say something like "when I want to get some late-night hacking in"? This may sound stupid to some of you, but hear me out. I think more and more of us need to publicly use the word hack (hacked, hacking, etc.) in an attempt to make the word so arbitrarily vague, that the government cannot use the word in legislative drafts, executive orders or judicial summaries. Terms like hacking and "intellectual property" have been made dangerous black holes by the government and exploited by corporate America. And when corporate America exploits something, international businesses learn to follow suit, because they can get away with it!
So on that note, Merry Hacking and have a Hacking New Year!
No,
MY spelling is so shit I can use it as a signiture.
Keep the spelling mistakes in, it should help remind you exactly what you were thinking about at the time you wrote whatever.
A document without spelling mistakes is like a document with no life in it.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I was looking around online for the Happy Hacker keyboard recently and I can't find them for sale anywhere. The links to the manufacturer that I found were all dead. Is there any place to purchase these?
Lasers Controlled Games!
I want a NOISY keyboard that has a good tactile feedback and mechanical click response as you press a key. I find that I get much better WPMs out of those types of keyboards. But they are darn hard to find nowadays, and I have to go to surplus/vintage computer stores to get them.
...is the original ADB keyboard that came with the old Power Computing Mac clones. Very lightweight, a nice snap to the keys, etc, and a rounded-bottomed space bar (very comfy).
:)
Power Computing is out of business now, but MacAlly makes USB clones of their old keyboards now for the Mac market. As mentioned previously in the thread, you can remap the keys however you like them, and they're BIOS supported.
They're very, very quiet -- very comfortable and have satisfying feedback.
You may need to test a couple of them though before buying, though. I own several and one of them (a Bondi model, FWIW) feels "soft" when typing.
I actually installed one of these on my token WinBox (eMachines: loudest keyboard EVER, but great feedback, ala old IBMs) for the same reason you mention -- becuase my girlfriend playing that word-scramble game on Shockwave.com was driving me completely batshit while I was trying to code.
MacAlly has a couple of other 'boards with additional features -- I'm eager to try the IceKey.
MacAlly stuff is generally carried in your local CompUSA in the Mac section, so you should be able to test drive one.
Don't be afraid to take it out of the box and play with one if it's not on display. CompUSA employees are generally scared of Mac people and won't say a word, if they are even brave enough to come near the section.
. . .
Happy Hacker keyboards, or something so dang close I didn't notice (I was assured they were the same by the store) are now made by Cherry. Model number G84-4100