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Segway HT Starts Selling
Ninja Master Gara writes "The much-hyped "IT", Dean Kamen's Segway Human Transporter, started selling Monday with a no-refund deposit of $495 on the $4,950 people mover for deliveries starting March 2003 on first come first serve basis.
"The Segway Human Transporter is one of the most famous and anticipated product introductions of all time," Jeff Bezos, chief executive and founder of Amazon.com, said in heralding the availability of the vehicles on the online retailer's site." It's also the most overhyped and overpriced toy ever, and I'm kicking myself for posting it since that just contributes to the problem.
I live in London, England, joyously enough.
1) No room to drive any longer - cars are everywhere.
2) No room to stand on the tube (subway) - people are everywhere.
3) No room to stand on the mainline (overground) trains - people are everywhere.
4) Segway is still useless.
Looks like we'd better start bringing out the guns...
I'll go out and watch yet another way motorists can take you out...
Julie Moult is an idiot.
It's also the most overhyped and overpriced toy ever, and I'm kicking myself for posting it since that just contributes to the problem.
Why did you post it then?
Really though, if you want to get around in areas that a car is not practical, use a bicycle, or walk, and get some exercise while you're at it...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
.... I WANT ONE! :)
It will be interesting to see how popular this will become over the next few years (and subsequent price drops). Remember when push-scooters first started to become fashionable? People looked on at the owners, and thought "What a ridiculous concept".... Switch to today, and there are many businessmen using this mode of transport to get around the city (at least in Paris).
Do you think that the same will happen to the Segway?.... Time will tell....
-- 7 string electric violin + live loop samplers
I was disappointed that it wasn't a unicycle. Imagine a seat on a wheel that moves and swivels to keep directly underneath you. Sort of like a magic one legged stool.
And I was also disappointed that it didn't go faster. If it can balance, why not make it go 50 miles an hour?
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
If you've ever been to Italy and seen the way they handle their Vespas, and where they try to drive them knows that "Seven mostly rural states have no prohibitions on the use of powered vehicles on sidewalks." could mean trouble.
Except from that, I think that it is nice to see that this actually became a product (or looks close to becoming). I doubted it earlier.
How long will it be until we see urban kiddies with mis-matched kustom wheels and unpainted ground effects on these things? (oh yeah, and don't forget the obligatory NOS and MOMO stickers)
At least you won't hear any annoying exhaust systems that sound like a beehive in blender with these, due to the electric drivetrain.
-This sig intentionally left blank
I remember, many years ago, there was a similar device. It promised to revolutionise transport in ourt crowded infrastructure. It cost about £400 ($800 or so at the time), could be driven by anyone, was efficient, and affordable.
It was called the Sinclair C5 and it was a complete failure.
The Segway is almost the same, except it has a price tag high large enough to buy a cheap used car, and looks even more stupid.
How did this get labeled off topic? Anyway, I think it is relevant, so...
It has gyroscopes inside so it can tell what it's orientation is, when the rider leans in any direction he applies a torque to the machine using his weight. This torque is the control input for the vehicle, and onboard computer translates that into different voltages for the two motors (one on each side). The same computers (with the gyroscopes, again) makes sure the machine 'keeps it's balance'. It is really an overpriced simple control system with a couple motors and some gyros...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
A vehicle that can move you along at about 15 mph without making you sweat while in a suit and tie...or whetever work clothing you are wearing.
So what do you do with this thing when you get to work? Are they going to have a parking lot for them? Ride it into the office? Will the HR department enforce a 2mph speed limit in the hallway? Will part of your pay be the electricity to recharge your unit on the company electric circuit?
(imagine your favorite HR person standing in the hall of your office with a radar gun.) ha.
Don't Tread on Me
Don't like it, don't buy it.
However, do not deny the technology in it is very cool. In fact, the Amazon.com order page has a very nice semi-detailed overview of how everything works, with diagrams, etc.
I can't wait to try one of these one day when they come down in price.
"And like that
I had the opportunity to see a Segway in use at, of all places, the Toledo Zoo. Aside from looking really cool in action, this thing is supposed to of interest to companies as a productivity enhancing tool. The guy I saw moved along smartly with a package in a basket on the Segway. As I continued to watch, he pulled up at his destination, dismounted and then stood there watching the Segway to make sure it didn't roll/drive away on its own. I would have dismissed this, but he made such a deliberate effort to assure himself that it would stay put. He spent perhaps 15 seconds doing so. I have to conclude that his experience on the Segway taught him to be certain it stays put. If he has to do this every time he dismounts then there is more productivity to be gained. Maybe a little voice recognition system should be added to these things. "Segway, sit! Stay! Good Segway!"
-- Instant Karma's gonna get you! [320848 = 2*2*2*2*11*1823]
I remember reading a while back about how people who were shown IT/Ginger in it's development have basically said Segway is not it. ZDNet has the story.
I was curious why Steve Jobs was getting all excited about something like this, doesn't seem like him.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Dean Kamen's super advanced robotic wheelchair is far more impressive (a lot of the technology behind the Segway comes from it). It is 4 wheel drive, can stand a person upright so that the wheelchair bound can look "norms" in the eyes, climbs stairs with ease, is faster than a Segway, and is as compact a normal non-folding wheelchair.
And he has been working on a true compact Stirling Engine using modern materials for quite some time. Supposedly is quite close to getting it working affordably. Such a device could do wonders for the energy problems of today (not to mention providing electric power even in the most remote areas).
This is also the guy that invented several key medical devices used in much of modern cardiovascular and vascular medicine. Things such as a blood pump that due to the design of the turbine blades within it does not damage blood cells as they pass through the device.
Dean is also the founder of the US FIRST program designed to get children of the US (and other countries) interested in science and invention at an early age. The US FIRST robotics competition has inspired some very interesting advances in robotics.
Once more unto the breach dear friends...
I am very excited by the chance to purchase a new Segway Human Transporter. While I understand that the Segway is the most important invention in the history of mankind, I feel that it could use a few improvements:
-I don't feel like standing up while I travel. Segway needs a seat.
-I can't picture myself leaning around to control Segway, especially when sitting down. Add two more wheels and a better control system. Maybe a steering wheel and a couple of foot pedals will do.
-I'm certainly not going to ride around in the open air, especially in bad weather. Add a roof, a heater, and an air conditioner.
-17 miles an hour? Two hours of operation? Sorry, I have places to go. Add a nice 6-cylinder engine.
-Where am I supposed to put my groceries? Add a trunk. And a back seat. I have a family, you know!
Add all this, and maybe a 4-speaker CD system, and I think you'll have a winner!
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Sorry, I'm only a 1336 h4x0r.
I think that's what my box will be saying after posting this...
I got to ride one of them last August -- it was pretty wild.
http://sethbuckley.com/gallery/Segway
help fill in hidden movie endings @ End of the Credits
Well, if it goes over 30mph, it'll go faster than most of the traffic in Northern VA during rush hour. If you could brrrm down Hwy. 66 and pass all the other traffic on the extreme left, it would be pretty cool. Heck, near all the "popular" exits, the right lane is usually moving at walking speed anyway. The only real problem I see is that business about leaning forward to go forward & v/v at high speeds. I am probably not that coordinated. Also, people who are concerned about their hair-styling will not be pleased. However, if you can get your dog on the back, s/he would love it. That's it. The ultimate dog-walker!! Thank you, thank you very much. }:{)||
Northern NJ towns are already regretting that hasty cave-in, according to this article. The state law Segway lobbyists pushed through prohibits towns from banning any "electric personal assistive mobility devices,'' says that story--the law " was passed after Segway, maker of the "Human Transporter,'' lobbied New Jersey's Legislature and others throughout the country."
So what's the problem? As a result, New Jersey towns have been unable to deal with the latest fad among local teenagers, electric scooters, which they ride on the sidewalks.
Note that the scooters now terrorizing North Jersey pedestrians are not "assistive devices" that deserve protection by the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act)--neither is the Segway. These are vehicles you have to stand up on to drive. But affluent parents who bought these toys for their teens are calling on the protection of the ADA to keep them on the sidewalks and out of traffic. We can expect to see the same with the Segway.
San Francisco plans to fight back, according to this Examiner article. Senior-citizen activists and walkers protested they don't want to share their space with a 95 lb machine traveling 12 mph. "The whole point of sidewalks is to separate vehicles from pedestrians," says Walk San Francisco director Michael Smith.
IMO, the Segway is a pyramid scheme waiting to tumble. Early investors put up the cash for a massive publicity and lobbying campaign. They now have until March to lure unsuspecting buyers to buy their Segways, and unsuspecting investors to buy their stock.
In March it's all over. Once Segways hit the sidewalks, the pyramid crumbles. Whoever has money in Segways in March will take the hits for liability claims that already have class-action lawyers licking their chops. State legislators will quickly rescind Segway laws, and Segway owners will be riding their white elephants in the street--if they feel like admitting they own this year's version of Edsel.
Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...
The Segway has been criticized mercilessly since it was first revealed. I think this is largely the result of the secrecy surround its development. A great deal of speculation ensued about what it could be, and then when it was launched, people felt let down because they had imagined something more.
Where else have I seen this? Oh yeah, it happens before every Macworld Expo. It's some kind of clinical condition that relates to people never being satisfied and the grass always looking greener elsewhere.
Anyway, I think it is pretty stupid to call it overhyped.
Firstly, the rampant speculation was NOT hype. It was speculation. Hype is when you talk about the great features of a product and how much you want one. Anticipation of the next LoTR movie is hype. Speculation about "IT" or "Ginger" was more like wondering about whether aliens exist.
Secondly, I think hype can only really be determined after the product is launched to see if it fails to live upto expectations. We have no idea how well the Segway will do. How can we tell whether or not it was overhyped?
This kind of shooting-from-the-hip editorial commentary fundamentally lowers the level of discussion around here sometimes.
Paris has always been good for Bikes, Bladers, Scooters et al. The wide pavements, the properly enforced cycle lanes.
Lots of people Bike/Blade/Scoot to work in Paris because you can and lets face it Paris is a nice place to see as you go. The Scooters allow the suits to zip around with less hassle than blades, but many people still use blades. And while you look a little silly on a Scooter you are still part of some form of sub-culture, and they are not hanging around.
The Segway makes you look like a muppet. Parisiens will forgive many things, but not looking cool or stylish isn't one of them. This is a city with Policemen trained by the Olympic skating team to be bladers.
I await to be corrected but somehow I can't imagine 2,000 Segway owners meeting at Bastille on a Sunday afternoon for a great high speed crack around the city. Exercise is cool in Paris, being Fat is very uncool.
Vive la differance and all that, but Segway will be as popular as American tourists in Paris.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
While the Segway sounds like a great idea, I'll wait for the following improvements:
1. The weight of the unit has to come down. The current 65 pound weight is a bit much to carry up and down staircases.
2. The unit should be collapsible, so you it makes it much easier to carry on and off means of public transport (trains, trolleys, buses and ferries).
3. The cost has to be much lower than now.
I really hope a company like Dahon (famous for its folding bicycles) will work with Kamen and develop something akin to a Segway that weighs no more than 25-27 pounds, folds and/or collapses to a manageable size, and costs no more than US$2,000 to start and then lower the cost as technology improves.
"It's also the most overhyped and overpriced toy ever, and I'm kicking myself for posting it since that just contributes to the problem."
Yeah, far be it from you to listen to your loyal readership who take the time and effort to search the Internet for "Stuff that Matters" to others than just yourself at the same time helping to make your bottom line look a little better.
Overhyped and overpriced is certainly your opinion which I could personally do without. Do you know how much it costs to make one of these? Do you know the specifics of the R & D went into these? I think not.
Do you realize how fantastic an achievement in technology this is? Well, I guess not if you think it's just a "toy". (BTW, Nice lame-ass attempt to trivialize it.) The engineering that went into creating a device that balances the human body while moving forward, backward and turning and most importantly anticipates sudden movements to maintain that balance is fantastic!
Perhaps more important (and certainly undervalued by many) are the potential advances that this type of technology could lead to that we can't foresee right now. (Like this wheelchair that Kamen also invented.
For a nerd who supposedly likes anime, science- fiction, technology, etc. You seem just a little negative and short-sighted.
But of course, these are just my opinions.
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
...I could buy a top of the line custom built titanium bike and have money to spare. The bike would be smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to maintain, not run out of power, go faster, access more places and give people exercise. Ooops! I said the nasty E word, exercise!
Seriously, it's amazing how much money can be made off of human laziness. People are willing to pay 5000$, along with the effort of maintaining these things, to not have to move their legs
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
I was wondering why the digitally remastered "Easy Rider" DVD I bought from Amazon had Dennis Hopper and Peter Fonda riding around on scooters. I had figured it was just the director's cut.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
The English C5 was a plastic electric car. The design ignored the fact that plastic develops cracks when flexed often. It was quirky in the English tradition. It died immediately after introduction.
Uhmm. You have it the wrong way around: 32 states have so far passed legislation that explicitly allow it on sidewalks.
Something I've been wondering about here...
I recall a few years back a friend of mine telling me a story about his experiences in the military. He did aircraft maintenance on a number of different craft.
Apparently, many of them make use of extremely high RPM gyroscopes in their on board guidance systems. While I don't recall the technical specs, I do remember him telling me that there were specific regulations for how long you had to wait after the aircraft was powered down before you were allowed to begin servicing the systems. Otherwise, there was a very real danger to both the mechanic and the machine. He related that on one occasion he and his team waited the regulated time period and then began to disassemble the planes systems. As they removed the housing with the gyroscope and began to lower it to the tarmack it suddenly flew from there hands and took off - thereby destroying itself. They were all a bit shaken and one of the long time crew chiefs remarked, "Guess that was a good one" because it still hadn't come to a stop.
Now the SegWay supposedly uses, "aircraft quality gyroscopes" for balance and control. If these are powerful enough to keep an adult human upright they must be spinning at a terrific RPM. What are the dangers involved in this? That is to say if someone on one of these were to be struck by a car, would one of these gyros take off and remove some unfortunate soul's head?
As a result I see these all the time.. average is about 2-3 a day. Now a lot of you are saying what's the point, they're stupid, use a bike, use a car.. For Manchester they are very well suited. We have this long strip downtown.. going from one end to the other is a pain by car (lots of traffic, lights, no parking) going by bike sucks since you can't bike on the sidewalk (unsafe, and I'll get to that later) and if you only have 30mins for lunch then you probably can't walk to your favorite lunch place and back in that time (Even more so now that Capri burnt down).
The Segway is great for this task and that's what most people use them for, going to work further then 2-3 miles but not to far, getting lunch, and doing in city things.
As far as the safety thing.. I don't care how good you are on a bike you can't stop on a dime if you'er going at a good speed.. Until you actually see it in person you can't fully understand, but I saw a guy (from Deka) going down the side walk at probably 8-10mph.. he got to the intersection and STOPED, on a dime, because you have to lean back to make it stop you are already adjusting your center of balance, if you stopped that quickly on a bike you would either flip over the handle bars or wipe out. This is why a segway is safer.
You go to your friends house and he lives up a flight of stairs? you get off, stand next to your segway, it a button on it and it will walk itself up the stairs (you can't be on it because of the extream angle it's at)
Over all they're cool, I would get one and use it to get to work (about 7-8 miles) rather then drive my car. I would have never used it when I was living in Goffstown (next town over, small town) since there wasn't anything of interest for about 20 miles around me.. And if I lived in the building above where I worked, or a few blocks away, sure I would probably walk rather then use this, but not if I was 3 miles or more away.
With all this being said, I still can't wait to see how they are in the snow :)
Free Mac Mini
I guess I'm the only person here who doesn't think the Segway has been overhyped.
This is an incredible product that realistically could change have a big impact on the way cities are planned and the way lives are lived.
The grumps who are wailing "what about us poor schmoes on the sidewalks" haven't taken a close look at the thing or thought about it very hard.
Barelling down the sidewalk at 17mph is like running full-bore. Whether you are traveling that speed on foot or on a seque it is still poor social ettiquette. People don't drive their cars 80mph down 25mph residential streets. Why will they start to careen down sidewalks?
I could see cities bolstering their bike-police force. It's no problem for a reasonably healthly person to bike at least 17mph. They'll help enforce safe sidewalk laws.
Well, that's looking at the social aspects of the machine.
Looking at it as a geek I'm in total-fucking-awe of what they've done. They've simulated the inner-ear for all intents and purposes. The machine is rugged, polution free (ignoring manufacturing wastes), and it is really reasonably priced. I'm willing to bet in a year or so these will be available for ~$2000. That's only slightly higher than the price of a decent road, mountain, or commuter bike.
I saw Dean Kamen a couple weeks back. He was up in North Dakota for one of our Technology Conferences. He focused more on his pet project of more, better science and math education but he did have a seque along. I came away convinced the seque could be a year-round commuter vehicle in our larger cities. If it's good enough for North Dakota in the winter it's damn well good enough for the rest of the country year round.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
1) Bring the price down about an order of magnitude. ...until then, all they have is an expensive toy.
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2) Design it so that it can be collapsed down to
where a commuter can easily take it with them on a bus/ train.
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A goal is a dream with a deadline
15 (really 10) miles of charge
Doesn't seem very far to me. I think I'd be endlessly charging the thing.
Payload: 250 lbs
Geez, there is a significant portion of the population that weighs in excess of 250 lbs. I guess it's just not for us, er them, huh?
NiMH batteries
The website states they get 300-500 full charges before needing replacing. That's only about a year and a half or so before an expensive part needs replacement if you're using it daily (and for the price you'd better be).
Insurance
I didn't find anything involving insurance. How would a device like this be underwritten? Personal property? Auto? What?
Pricetag
Besides, the price tag is WAY too high (even if it were 1/10 of what it is now I would be unlikely to buy).
In case of collision, the Segway "backs up gently when it bumps an object and has low pressure tires that soften the force on anything it rides over."
Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...
Yep, there is another C5. Specifically, Sir Clive Sinclair's (he of the ZX Spectrum 1980's computer fame) failed electric vechicle. The Segway and the Sinclair C5 have been compared to each other quite a bit here in Britain....
(1) Second parallel battery pack -- "turbo edition" ;-)
(2) Holder for a plastic flower -- "nostalgia edition"
(3) Lowered suspension and purple neon lighting underneath -- "urban edition"
(4) Pedals instead of a battery so it becomes self powered -- "amish edition" (or alternatively, "Greepeace speical"
-psy
Even the Seg is too big and fast for a crowded sidewalk. "Just like being hit by a pedestrian" doesn't begin to convey the kinetic energy behind a 320 lb lump hitting you at 12 mph. Roll right over most people.
I believe the same active control system used to balance the Segway is also used to cushion any impact with other objects/people/Segways. They've demonstrated this a few times on TV with Segways bumping into people or into each other at speed. The Segway(s) stop on a dime (or even deflect/bounce off) without upsetting the balance of either party. They also have soft tires for similar safety reasons.
So the comment "just like being hit by a pedestrian" is proportedly accurate as long as the contact isn't due to system failure or the wheels leaving the ground (in which case the effective kinetic energy would suddenly become as described). This is actually one of the major features of the device - it probably wouldn't have been produced if this wasn't true.
My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
Lean forward how much? This in itself will require a sense of balance. Without one you will be speeding up and slowing down all of the time.
Its not going to balance for you, but will take your balance queues and turn them into motion. If you are not giving the proper queues then like an earlier poster suggested...
mow through 10 pedestrains and end up under a cab.
I saw some of these at EPCOT in September, 02. I also noticed that the stroller rental stands were clogged with people renting those battery-powered carts (moto-thrones) that are occasionally seen in grocery stores for, I assumed, handicapped folks.
The alarming thing was that based on overheard conversations, a surprising amount of the people who were getting these appeared not to be handicapped, just too lazy to walk all over the disney parks.
I am in favor of coexisting with technology as much as the next guy, but I have to question things when it makes our (US) overfat and lazy culture more overfat and lazy.
How sleepless is the egg, knowing that which throws the stone forsees the bone.
She's 65, lives close to a downtown core, and her eyesight is getting bad enough that driving a car is becoming problematic, or will in the next couple of years. Segway would be a good solution for her.
Try to look outside yourself when you judge the worth of a product.
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
I have not ridden one, but I was very impressed with how Disney employees managed them in very heavy crowds. They were able to zip around and through some of the heaviest of gawking tourists (toughest kind of crowd) without any issues. If Disney trusts them not to cause lawsuits, I think that says a LOT!
The ASIMO's lawyer was quoted as saying "1001001110001010".
I agree with you about the sweaty thing being a nice aspect, but what I whish we would do is, instead of making ways for us to get around without sweating, why don't we make it more convenient to clean up after getting sweaty? I live 12 miles from where I work, in Connecticut, so I know about traffic, and it is this traffic that makes me wish I could ride my bike to work, but being the profuse sweater that I am, I could not got to work once I got to work (did that make sense?) There is a company health club (really big company...) but it is 2.5 miles from my desk. If one of the bathrooms in my building (or even anywhere near my building) had a shower, I would ride my bike to work whenever there is no snow on the ground... but instead I sit in traffic getting pissed off, just like everyone else, and then I spend an hour exercising after I get home. Doesn't make much sense, does it?
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Ask and Ye shall receive
Before you jump to any conclusions, please read Dan Bricklin's commentary based on his real life experience in riding a segway:
Thoughts before riding one
Impressions after riding a Segway HT: part 1
Impressions after riding a Segway HT: part 2 Especially note the sections "Isn't it just like a bicycle or a scooter?" and "How does a Segway fit in among regular walking and standing people?"
The news story we are commenting on is not "Segway invented." It is "Segway for sale." If someone is thinking about buying a Segway, that person should consider the speculation about reliability, insurance, state laws, public acceptance (whether or not the thing is *perceived* as safe). Because you could end up with a $5000 vehicle you use everywhere, or you could end up with a $5000 doorstop.
Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...