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Microsoft vs. Modded Xboxes
hikeran writes "The Register has an article about how Xbox live service is now apparently banning Xboxes that have been mod chipped. Basically it seems this is one of the many uses of those unique id's used in Microsoft's software. Next up bannings for using foul language on Xbox live service?? Be careful what you say.. you may be playing with an Xbox Live admin..."
I agree - but they should at least refund people's money or properly warn them in the first place.
Is it me or is the title of the article a little out there?
"MS accused of banning mod chip Xbox from Live service"
They later go on to say,
"...we're already seeing how unique hardware IDs could be used in anger by certain companies."
Well goddamn. I know microsoft is evil, but come on. Just because you don't want to follow the rules, doesn't mean they'll let you play with there toys. And I'm sure Xbox Live is burried in enough EULA's and of course backed with enough laweyrs to prove it.
I would have no problem if this article was rewritten as a non-attack on microsoft, and more as an informative article. Who's accusing them? I'm fairly damn certain,
"MS Found guilty of locking out modding bitchez from Xbox Live, Snoochie Boochies!"
All your fault. You cracked the case. You installed the chip, or had it installed.
--
I'm not anti-mod here either before the flames roll in. I'll be waiting for something worthwhile to mod my Xbox. As an added benefit of waiting for something worthwhile, if I do mod my Xbox modchips will be several years more mature.
Computational Madness in a round package.
Microsoft is allowed to ban whoever they want, for whatever reason.
This is very similar to what sattelite providers have done. Some have used eeprom updates that completely ruined systems that had pirated cards. Microsoft in turn is banning users who have used illegal mod chips which in turn could let a user use pirated games. This is no different than blizzard using serial numbers to prevent people from playing online using pirated versions of their products (blizzard is a prime example of a company that tries hard to curb piracy, despite many attempts to hack their protection such as bnetd).
Most importantly though, if you don't like MS's perfectly legal tactics, you have the perfectly legal solution of not buying their products.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
It also allows you to play imported games or try and develop stuff for the X-Box.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
As for the implication about swearing, GOOD! I don't mind a "Damn" when something happens now and then, but if I want to hear non-stop-increadibly-vulgar-peel-the-paint-off-eve ry-single-thing-within-ten-miles swearing, I'm sure I could go find that somewhere. But I don't want to hear it when I'm trying to play on online game. If you can't deal with not doing good in a stupid game without shouting enough obscenities to make all nuns on your contenant have a heart attack, then you need some serious help. I've been using Live a little (I got into the beta) and I haven't heard much of it, but I am expecting a certain level of maturity when I play online (about age 7). The constant idiotic trashtalking is anoying too, and people who make tons of sexual references and innuendo. I HOPE MS bans people who do this repeatidly. Considering that they are positioning this as something for kids, they most definatly should controll that sort of thing.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Then we could connect to the live service and get microsoft to bann a twenty thousand Xbox numbers.
Just go in sequential order and make them think there are 30-40K Xbox's out there with mod chips in them. Perhaps if all thier customers were banned microsoft would rethink thier stance on it and open it up.
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
>> Up until someone comes up with a way to report a different "unique" ID, and a way to make it not detect the mod chips
Just like the keygens for Half Life and Quake 3, right?
Oh wait. Unique keys. With a central database containing all valid keys, and associating them with a MAC address.
More likely, you might see rogue servers set up, which would fit the bill for things like Unreal Championship.
Personally, I'm not excited about the idea of paying a subscription to play a game that'd benefit perfectly fine from a decentralized, P2P method of online play, like UC or some sports titles. There's no need for an online community. I hate online communities, they're full of idiots. Just look at this one.
Hopefully MSFT and Sony realize this, and start releasing some games that allow me to just connect to my kid brother and beat the crap out of him from 500 miles away, without having to 'log in' and pay a bill.
Until then, I'll just keep filling my shelves with nice free pirated single player games, and not bat an eye at the xbox lives policies.
As for this 'news' that never was - it's been known for a long, long, long, long time within the mod world that xbox live would not allow chipped consoles.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I agree with you but it surprises me that you (nor anybody else afaik) has mentioned the superior online strategy adopted by PS2 and GC.
They leave it to the individual game makers to provide the infrastructure and rules how to play. This is much better
If you get banned due to modding from Xbox Live you are hosed as far as internet gaming is concerned. Not so with the other consoles.
You can play US games on your Eur PS2 with minimal penalty risk as an example. Second you can decide to give your business to the game maker that mostly align themselves with your "View of the world" .
Help fight continental drift.
Until--as the artical pointed out--the xBox is sold 2nd-hand to some completely inocent person.
Certinaly won't do the xBox reputation any good if people are finding they can't get on-line, and that there's nothing they can do about it.
Sure--as the artical says--you may be forced to by a new box, more cash for the vendors. But would you still want an xBox after all than? Maybe a Playstation would seem like a better option the 2nd time 'round. Atleast you know you want get banned from anything.
I'd prefer to see someone do an ID sweep _with_ a modded XBOX in order to ban _all_ the legit XBOXen. Hell, you probably don't need an XBOX to do it. Just sniff the line and find the portion responsible for the ID code. Then set up a PC to generate those types of packets with different ID codes.
I'm sure they use some form of encryption on the network side, but _strong_ encryption would add a lot of delay.
Once they see that 90% of their network is banned, they'll freak. They will try to ban the IP generating the packets, then the entire subnet. Pretty soon, IRC will distribute the packet generator to thousands of geeks looking, not to kill, but to prove that banning modded XBOXen is stupid.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
if you're doing that then you're not going to be using Xbox live very much.
It doesn't matter whether or not I use a mod chip on an Xbox because I don't subscribe to Xbox Live. I don't subscribe to Xbox Live because Microsoft doesn't want me. Microsoft doesn't want me because I'm on dial-up.
Will I retire or break 10K?
They can put all the labels they like on it, but the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act requires they prove that any problem is a result of damage caused by you. Just a sticker being broken doesn't count.
it's being worked on already, and basically as you've said - there's an eeprom that holds the serial number, and it can be reprogrammed with a different serial number. the suggestion of "flooding" m$ with hacked serials has been brought up, but i suppose the success of that will depend on how acurate m$'s database of known xbox serial #s is.
My favorite was a Microsoft mouse that had a sticker from their software police department. Something about how it should have come with a new system, or certificate of authenticity, or something.
I really wanted to call their hotline and say something like, "I got this Microsoft product from a friend, and I read this sticker, so I thought I should call and make sure I'm not pirating anything." and see how long it would take them to figure out that I had a mouse and they had no business putting that sticker on it.
Or do they actually not sell their mice, only license them?
You own the XBox, but they own the network you're connecting to with it, and they control the services.
Frankly, I think it's lame to ban modders, too. But here's the beauty of it -- if they piss off enough of their own customers, they'll lose marketshare. Maybe in their own minds they'll be losing undesirable customers and not care... until they end up all walking away and either moving on to a different platform or else using their modded XBoxen to build an underground, alternative gaming network. Now that'd be a hack!
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I can already see the market for switch boxes that on setting A turn on the mod chip but disconect the ethernet cable, and on setting B turn off the mod chip and reconnect the cable, so you can't accidently forget to kill the chip before logging in.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
For the record, Sony has been very anti-mod as well. I'm sure once their online PS2 service is launched, they'll have a similar method for checking for mods.
#include standard_not_that_Im_defending_Microsoft.h
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So I guess there are a lot of modded XBoxes.
Actually, by now, there are so many prerequesites to use XBox-life, I would be surprised of more than a few percent of XBox-owners will buy it. The majority doesn't have broadband and the few broadband owners are - you guessed it - even more likely to have modded their XBox.
This is certainly a stupid move from Microsoft and another nail into XBoxes coffin.
This might be a good thing. Has anyone played on Battle.Net recently? The strength and vocalness of people's anger and rudeness absolutely astounds me.
The people are what have prevented me from allowing my son to play on it.
One other notable thing I read about this, is that XBox Live doesn't play nice (read: not at all) on AOL's broadband service, and that MS is currently pursuing obtaining rights to have the service work on their network. Not that I'm some kind of AOL sympathizer or anything, I think they're a sad, sad service but you'd think MS would have locked that kind of thing down earlier. Like it or not, there's a pretty hefty userbase on AOL (although admittedly I don't know any numbers on how many people are on their broadband service). Comments?
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
In the xbox world, Microsoft has a good claim that the mod chips hurt their business. People wanted to get pirated software, and MS said 'that hurts our profits'. If you want the ability to run Linux they have made a way to do that: GET A DEVELOPMENT KIT. If you want to make your own games, get a dev kit. If you want to play pirated games, you are a theif, (but could do it with a dev kit).
In the bnetd world, Blizzard has a poor claim that bnetd hurts their business. People wanted Blizzard to improve their online sites. People offered to pay; ISPs offered to host; Consumers complained. They could have EASILY said "We'll offer new servers", or "We'll license ISP's to host", or "We'll let corporations like McDonalds host and add BigMac items that restore lots of unit health". When the bnetd folks asked them for help, they just said "no." When bnetd didn't do the things Blizzard did, they could have made an agreement with bnetd to include their 'security code'. Did they? No. They filed a law suit instead of implementing their 'security code'.
To finish the comparison: Where Blizzard just filed law suits, MS said "keep stuff you have changed off our servers." Where Blizzard said "No other networks, period, we don't care if you are legit or pirates", MS has said "Developer networks are fine, just show that you are developers and not pirates."
See the difference? I personally dispise xbox mod chips because they hurt my paychecks. But MS were to somehow require that you used their servers and couldn't use dev servers? Or if their servers get clogged and they won't let new game developers enable custom servers? Then you will have a valid comparison.
frob.
//TODO: Think of witty sig statement