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How An Andromeda Strain Might be Strained
An anonymous reader writes "For the world-record holder as the longest surviving bacteria in space [6 years, Bacillus subtillis], it turns out that among the multitude of dangers [cold, vacuum, UV, lack of nutrients, etc.] the greatest stress of all is intense ultraviolet radiation. In the next two years, new space station experiments are slated to test the panspermia hypothesis--also popularized in Robert Zubrin's "Entering Space", but dating back at least 150 years in the scientific literature. Recent balloon experiments, have rekindled alot of the controversy, but NASA Ames scientist, Rocco Mancinelli, concludes: "In my opinion, for a spore, it's quite likely.""
It's been a long standing standard that one of the most effective antibacterial/antiviral measures one can take today is UV irradiation, it's one of the few things most movies even get correct. Hell, even most of the studies done about UV irradiation on humans in space is inconclusive. Or has all the hype in the past (Anti-Anthrax measures in post offices) been just optimistic public placating?
Don't park drunk, accidents cause people.
So we could have all originated from something blown out of an Alien's nose - that sure explains a lot.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Another prime example of bacterial space survival was found by Apollo 12 when it brought back parts of the unmanned Surveyor 3. Conrad's quote here has been censored, incidentally; his original quote was a little pithier...
Maybe such experiments can show how life may 'evolve' to adapt to the extremes of planets/moons in space.
Analytic & algebraic topology of locally Euclidean meterization of infinitely differentiable Riemmanian manifold
Jeff
stty erase ^H
In other news, an invading alien race has left us for health reasons. Apparently we are the descendants of their common cold.
"In the first, she made a sort of layer cake, alternating layers of spores with layers of soil or clay, etc."
That just ruined my appetite for the day. Anybody want the rest of this layer cake that I'm not gonna eat?
I'm sheltering a strain of politically persecuted plant seeds in my fridg - keep 'em cool, dry and dark. Some have been in there over 10 years and will sprout in a week of warm, damp and dark.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
50% of the planets we've actually checked out are inhabited.
The other 50% have been visited by human beings who have left artefacts behind
So why do we expect the rest of the universe, including the non-large rocky bits,to be life-free?
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
...is how said information would be useful to us, since we already know what stresses bacteria. I mean, are we looking for an advancement in medicine or something, that will, say, extend the shelf life of certain helpful cultures or anything like that? Or is this just for the pure science of it and the satisfation of having knowledge?
I don't care either way. It's interesting to follow stuff like this, but it makes it a lot more interesting for the spectator when one knows what the goal is...
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
So does this mean that there could be millions of unidentified bacteria in space waiting to infect our planet. Sounds like a bad B movie...
[n8.r0n] http://petesweb.spymac.net/
The scary thing about the Andromeda Strain was that it wasn't a bacteria. It wasn't even a virus. It wasn't even organic, moreso a complex molecule that happened to reproduce using heat.
In other words, some journalist is looking at how long life forms we know and love(?) can survive the harsh conditions of outer space and finding an opportunity to use the term "Andromeda Strain"?
Solomon
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that there are micro-(or even macro-)organisms drifting through space feeding on UV radiation.
After all, we thought a lack of light would doom the sea floors to lifeless oblivion only to learn that life had adapted to feed on the what was available. Why should we assume that bacteria drifting through the void of space haven't evolved in a similar fashion?
For the world-record holder as the longest surviving bacteria in space, it turns out that among the multitude of dangers [cold, vacuum, UV, lack of nutrients, etc.] the greatest stress of all is intense ultraviolet radiation.
You know, I'm as much an advocate of information sharing as the next guy, but this kind of disclosure is just not professional, people.
I honestly feel that this type of discourse on an open Web forum such as this one is not advantageous to society as a whole. Why? Well, you just instructed the next generation of criminals how to effectively torture their victims. Don't believe me? Re-read the quote!
For the world-record holder as the longest surviving bacteria in space, it turns out that among the multitude of dangers [cold, vacuum, UV, lack of nutrients, etc.] the greatest stress of all is intense ultraviolet radiation.
I can see the headline on the local paper already: "Local Kitten Faces Grim Outlook After UV Torture".
As if that doesn't sound disheartening enough, just replace "kitten" with "teenager". The Anarchist's Cookbook was disgusting enough, and I honestly have hatred for anyone who reads and even mildly ponders using those recipes for disaster.
But I never...never...thought that the professional, for-pay editors here at Slashdot, the gentleman down in the trenches day in and day out, bringing us the latest from the front lines of Open Source vs. Microsoft, would publish benchmarks on how to most effectively torture bacteria or any other living creature.
As far as I'm concerned, God's creatures are in my jurisdiction, and if you mess with any living thing in a negative manner, you will face my music.
Thank you for hearing me out. I apologize for being perhaps a bit too vocal on the matter, but it's an issue of high concern for me.
Thanks again.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
With aloe vera, of course.
"Deinococcus radiodurans is the most radiation-resistant organism known. Deinococcus radiodurans were discovered in 1956 by Arthur W. Anderson at Oregon Agricultural Experiment Station in Corvallis. Among the many characteristics of Deinococcus radiodurans, a few of the most noteworthy include an extreme resistance to genotoxic chemicals, oxidative damage, high levels of ionizing and ultraviolet radiation, and dehydration. "
- http://deinococcus.allbio.org/
what are the chances of a planet like earth with a star like the earths with the chemical makeup of earth getting hit with a comet/big-ass-thing (probably the most likely part of the equation), which is not so terribly big as to wrend the planet into star-orbiting dust, and not too small as to allow the pieces to coalesce back into a nice spheroid, but just big enough to launch a healthy piece (meaning lively) through space to rendevous with a planet like earth with a star.......you get the picture. ...how thick must it be for entry through an atmosphere?
I want just as badly as any other sci-fi buff to make it with a hot alien babe. But let's face it. 2 meter tall, bipeadal, sexy aliens are pretty unlikely...Even more unlikely than life as we know it or most of us getting laid tommorow.
"We have calculated (in the Mileikowsky paper in Icarus (2000) that in order to protect spores for 1 million years against cosmic radiation, a 1-meter-thick layer of the meteorite is necessary."
In the voice of Homer:
Mmmmm, bacteria.
Mmmmm, kitten.
Mmmmm, teenager.
It's been a long standing standard that one of the most effective antibacterial/antiviral measures one can tak e today is UV irradiation, it's one of the few things most movies even get correct. Hell, even most of the studies done about UV irradiation on humans in space is inconclusive. Or has all the hype in the past (Anti-Anthrax measures in post offices) been just optimistic public placating?
I hate it when I get andromeda stains on my clean clothes.
Well this is not exactly about panspermias but it may be an interesting note about the possibility of life in outter Space.
I would risk to say that we may already have some evidence (not proof!) that something alive may thrive in Mars surface. Nearly two years ago I got hand in a frame where one could see both light and dark dunes among a rugged Mars landscape. It was interesting to note that dark dunes formed mostly opposite to the general pattern of winblow that could be inferred from light dunes and the erosive processes in mounds and cliffs. Besides, on several places, under certain mounds, one could see how "dark sands" covered one side in a weird manner. They would concentrate over the base of the mound's side and swiftly dissipate the farer they would be from the mound.
MSS scientist claimed that these pattern was the result of light dunes being "pertified" and that dark dunes being "active". However, in several places, one could be pretty sure that the light mounds were still very active, was they "cut" a dark dune with their edges. Moreover, in one section of this regon, dark dunes would always "hide" behind the bigger and larger light dunes.
In the whole, it seemed that dark dunes ran away from light and wind, what was quite weird. As the region presented lots of data on how wind acted, the pattern was clear and perfect.
On other section of Mars I saw an even more weird picture. There, dunes would have clear and well visible "bridges" between themselves - patches that united dunes well far away from each other. In one place, such "bridge" was rising over a mound, going down through a small cliff and uniting two dark dunes quite far apart from each other (maybe more than a few hundreds of meters).
These strange and weird dark dunes are a mistery in Mars, many of them are clear and pure dunes, only its dark pattern gets quite weird as they don't have a clear origin. However some places show dunes that are only slightly similar to natural dunes. They are more compact, smaller than light dunes, Besides they present a "water drop" pattern rather than presenting the usual crescent shape of most dunes.
This is not the only weird thing in Mars about "dark lands" There are many more. However this is the most widespread weird feature in the planet. One can see this from pole to pole. However they are not in every place. They are quite localized in certain regions, while others lack them completely.
As I kid, I'd read a story, by Stanislaus Lem IIRC, in which the Earth seeks admission to a Galactic Congress of sorts. After reviewing Earth's pedigree, we are denied memberships on the grounds that the primordial ooze from which we're descended was actually the result of illegal dumping by some aliens. The specifics of the story escape me, but I recall that after purging their septic system on the young and lifeless Earth, the aliens responsible added insult to injury and stirred the pool of waste with a stick, in a clockwise direction, which imparted onto our DNA a right-handed chirality, which is apparently considered mongrel by everyone else in the galaxy.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
The Farenheit scale isn't really based on freezing boiling points at all.
The zero point was the temperature that Dr. Farenheit could consistantly and constantly produce using an ice/water salt mix which I think was also being pumped out and his 100 mark was acheived sticking his thermometer up a cows arse. This is why healthy body temperatures for most reasonably sized land mammals is about 100F
A few centimeters of rock will sheild against most anything. Microbes have been found as deep as anyone has drilled in the earth- 8 miles, so there are probably lots of microes inside rocks.
It kinda hurts the credibility when the top of the rediff.com frontpage says "Channels: Astrology"?
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
"That any existing life died out and had to start again, or the "panspermia" theory of life arriving on the meteors themselves." The fact remains that men can still turn the most innocent statements into something sexual. In layman terms "Huhuhhh . . . He said sperm"
Kelvin, not Celsius, is the international standard for temperature scales.
Veni, vidi, vici.
that there is life on Earth, but we don't know if there is any elsewhere in the Universe.
The four steps to necessary for Abiogenesis are:
Inorganic Molecules to Organic Monomers
Organic Monomers to Organic Polymers
Formation of membranes from the polymers
Acquisition of a means of reproduction
Maybe the asteroids instead of seeding the earth provided the energy required for the first step.
Surely, if life came to earth in meteors then one would also expect the moon to have had a few impacts from these types of meteors too? My reasoning being its close proximaty to Earth and the shear number of visible craters on its surface. The bacteria may not have flurished on the moon because of the unsuitable conditions but wouldn't wee still expect to find the dormant spores on the moon? If they can survive millions of years of space travel then surely they can also stay dormant on the moon.
The only argumnet against this is that there was only one meteor which had the spores and it crashed on Earth. But this must be extremely unlikely (that the only life bearing meteor landed on the perfect planet). It must be more plausable to believe that there are a reasonable number of these meteors and some crashed to earth and some to the other planets in our solar system.
I had read several of his books in the 80s and my friends thought he must have gone bonkers after being a great astronomer.
Too bad he passed on before he could be shown to be correct... if this virus from space stuff is proven correct.
-Ron
Simpler things are sometimes harder to kill. The Andromeda Strain was hard to kill because it was a simple thing which had adapted to an extremely harsh environment.
Similarly, prions -- the deformed proteins associated with Mad Cow and other transmissible spongiform encephalopathies -- survive autoclaving. Bacteria break down in an autoclave, but not prions, which are much simpler things. Very worrisome, because autoclaving is the standard procedure for sterilizing surgical instruments.
Contrast this with complex things -- e.g. human beings -- which can be killed in a thousand simple ways.
More complex, more vulnerable.
I'm reminded of the "trans-warp drive" from one of the Star Trek movies, I forget which: Scotty shuts down the drive by heisting a few chips, and says with a smile: "The more they tinker with the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the works."
-kgj
I hates the French.
The correct spelling is 'subtilis' A non-pathogenic (except for a few odd-ball cases) gram-positive, sporulating prokaryote. So it acts as a model system for all sorts of nasties including anthrax.
:-)
The B. subtilis spores are *extremely* hardy and were very close (genetically) to the bugs that the one group claimed to have extracted from amber.
And the japanese eat a fermented soy product made by this guy (natto).
I worked on that damn bug for my PhD so it's a love/hate relationship.
Shouldn't a world's record exclude goings on in space?
What about the bacteria found frozen in the polar
ice caps that "revived" when thawed?
It was hundreds of thousands (millions?) of years
old, and still viable!
I don't remember the specifics... just turn on
Discovery, TLC, or The Science Channel once in a
while, you'll stumble over it.
The popular beliefs of the limits of life are being
challenged all the time. Just look at the life
in/near the thermal vents in the deap ocean for
a comparison in the opposite direction.
- Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
A bacteria, is a rat, is a pig, is a dog, is Ingrid Newkirk. It's a good thing that none of the above creatures have souls in any form (especially the last one!), otherwise we might feel some concern when we hook up their carcasses to the AC power for testing! Burn, baby, burn!
If bacteria can survive for millions of years in petrolium under ground, I'm sure they can survive for equal time scales in blobs of tar in space. Does this mean that Earth was colinized by life from somewhere else? No, after all that life had to come from someplace and that place might just have been Earth itslelf. It could however, make it possible for Earth to have been colinized and it does make it possible for Earth to continue to receive new life forms.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I don't know why, but that's the word from researchers -- prions don't denature in an autoclave. There are documented cases where Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease was transmitted via autoclaved surgical instruments. Consequently, Researchers are EXTREMELY cautious about working with prion-related diseases.
... and they cause normal proteins to convert into the abnormal prion form (characterized by spongy holes in brain tissue).
Very strange proteins indeed: they don't denature under autoclave heat/pressure
-kgj
people have no respect for jerkcity.
5 27 014
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=43167&cid=4
that's a +4 funny, but this is a -1 offtopic?! get a sense of humor, people.
The second evidence was from growths observed from using potato dextrose agar as medium and the microorganism could be identified as staphylococcus pasteuri. Rod-like bacillus and fungus (engyodontium albus de Hoog) were also found.
I have no problem with the idea that microorganisms can travel through space, if we find evidence for it.
However, these claims strike me as dubious: these are organisms adapted to earth environments. Staphylococcus pasteuri is grown at body temperature and isolated from human vomit, and Engyodontium album is a eucaryote. Neither of them seems like a good candidate for a space bug, and both of them seem like somthing you would easily get if someone doesn't handle sterile samples carefully. You'd also expect big differences in sequence data.
If space is full of spores for organisms highly adapted to earth environments, that's a much, much stronger claim than merely claiming that space is full of spores. If they are extraterrestrial, where are these supposed to be coming from?
The most plausible explanation for these particular results is terrestrial contamination. If they want to prove anything more, the experiment really needs to be repeated many times and under different conditions. And they really should find some differences in the DNA sequences.
We are all descendants of septic goo from the Planet Krypton.
In the distance you hear an ominous moo.
they're so indestructible but basically made from protein? they survive surgical autoclaving. how to kill them then. can they be inhaled?
You know, while I've always respected Benjamin Franklin, I think that a hot air balloon is a little big to play 'catch' with.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
We have meteorites that we think came from Mars.
Presumably, there are meteorites from Earth on Mars, Venus, and maybe even Europa.
If we see no signs of earthlike DNA in those places, then I would say the likelyhood of panspermia goes way down.
I don't have a problem believing that life evolved from inorganic materials all by itself.
But then, lots of people believe in weird things.
Free book: Science Toys You Can Make
FEMS Microbiol Lett 2002 Sep 24;215(1):163-8 "Microbial survival of space vacuum and extreme ultraviolet irradiation: strain isolation and analysis during a rocket flight." R Saffary et al.
"We have recovered new isolates from hot springs, in Yellowstone National Park and the Kamchatka Peninsula, after gamma-irradiation and exposure to high vacuum (10(-6) Pa) of the water and sediment samples. The resistance to desiccation and ionizing radiation of one of the isolates, Bacillus sp. strain PS3D, was compared to that of the mesophilic bacterium, Deinococcus radiodurans, a species well known for its extraordinary resistance to desiccation and high doses of ionizing radiation. Survival of these two microorganisms was determined in real and simulated space conditions, including exposure to extreme UV radiation (10-100 nm) during a rocket flight. We found that up to 15 days of desiccation alone had little effect on the viability of either bacterium. In contrast, exposure to space vacuum ( approximately 10(-6) Pa) decreased cell survival by two and four orders of magnitude for Bacillus sp. strain PS3D and D. radiodurans, respectively. Simultaneous exposure to space vacuum and extreme UV radiation further decreased the survival of both organisms, compared to unirradiated controls. This is the first report on the isolated effect of extreme UV at 30 nm on cell survival. Extreme UV can only be transmitted through high vacuum, therefore its penetration into the cells may only be superficial, suggesting that in contrast to near UV, membrane proteins rather than DNA were damaged by the radiation."
If you are interested in bacteria that can live in extremely hostile environments, D. radiodurans is a great example to read up on... it is being bioengineered for bioremediation of radioactive waste.
An aside for the "radiation causes mutations and hey then there's evolution" crowd, D. radiodurans is believed to have developed its extraordinary radiation-resistance as a side of effect of desiccation resistance. There is no evidence that there is any natural environment that would have led to direct selection of such extreme resistance to radiation. (Although humans have now such created such environments at nuclear reactors or in food irradiation facilities.)
It also occurs to me that if one was drowning, yelling "Help! I'm drowning and I lost my bikini top" would probably be m
Here's a fairly non-technical article if you want to learn more about this bug: ScienceNews
It also occurs to me that if one was drowning, yelling "Help! I'm drowning and I lost my bikini top" would probably be m
Michael Crichton's "Andromeda Strain" is a great book on this topic.
I always remembered Fred Hoyle and N. Chandra Wickramasinghe's book - Diseases from Space, as the first place that I heard about Pan Spermia. Look here for an article by N.C.W that was posted last year about the supporting evidence. At the time, the whole issue concerning bacilli was that they are the best shape for surviving the passage through the upper atmosphere.