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Open Source Solutions for Live Video Distribution?

Posted by Cliff on from the avoiding-proprietary-codecs dept.

mikvo asks: "I work for my state Department of Transportation, and we have a reasonably advanced traffic monitoring system, currently with almost 300 cameras (and expanding). However, our matrix (300x200) video switch is running out of life, and we have to replace it. The primary consultant on the project is recommending we move entirely to digital video, using VBrick encoders and decoders. It's a private network, though we know there are still security issues around that. However, the primary question is, are there viable open source alternatives for both encoding and decoding the live video streams, rather than relying on proprietary (read expensive) decoding hardware?"

"The video encoders would have to be deployed in the field (protected cabinets, but still subject to tempreature extremes), while the decoders would all be indoors. The decoders would also have to support rapid (sub-second) switching between video streams. We would require full remote management of both encoders and decoders. I know I can use something like vlc (VideoLAN client) just to read the video streams coming from a VBrick encoder (I have that working on our demo units). However, I'm not sure I'm totally comfortable with the cost of the propsed solutions, especially when it's my tax dollars (in part at least) that are paying for it.

Video distribution would have to be on-demand viewing of any encoded video stream, by any authorized party. The control center has a large (14 screen) video wall that, ideally, should be able to display any video in any of the 14 quadrants, or to show video spread over multiple quadrants.

I'm perfectly happy to do the research (and I've started doing some), but I'm looking for tips or ideas. I'm not an expert when it comes to video solutions on open source operating systems."

33 comments

  1. Don't help this guy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    He's really looking for a cheap solution that would enable the police to put up cameras on all our street corners like the Brits do.

    1. Re:Don't help this guy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      F the POLICE !

  2. How expensive? by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 2

    If you want a separate computer encoding each camera and feeding it onto an IP network then yes, it's going to be expensive whether it's encoding to MPEG or Ogg Tarkin.

    If you have space to put a PC with USB ports in a wiring closet, you might be able to get away with a cheap video encoder, like the one X10 sells, for $70 apiece. There is one problem with that sort of solution, however; I don't know whether or how well one can connect multiple encoders to a single PC. That would bring your expense back up.

    1. Re:How expensive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tarkin is years away. Try theora

  3. Aint this a hardware problem? by Trevelyan · · Score: 1

    I have never heard of open source hardware.
    Sure theres open source Specs, Designs and/or VHDL for stuff (eg Grapics cards)

    But you seem to be looking for a hardware solution.
    My only thought is runing some ogg tarkis encoder on an embedded linux board

    1. Re:Aint this a hardware problem? by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

      SPARC is open source hardware.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    2. Re:Aint this a hardware problem? by WasterDave · · Score: 2

      I have never heard of open source hardware.

      There's several open source cores for FPGA's, and an ARM based single board computer.

      Dave

      --
      I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
    3. Re:Aint this a hardware problem? by mikvo · · Score: 1
      Yes and no. When you consider the cost (7 digits, at least), I'm not necessarily looking for a complete, "free" solution. However, it seems to me that, at the very least, an inexpensive Linux box (or such) could handle either encoding or decoding of MPEG video streams. The cameras are installed, so I'm not looking for a cheaper camera. Currently, the video is streamed back uncompressed over fiber to an analog video switch. In order to replace the switch, we are looking at digital distribution, rather than analog. That requires at least 1 encoder for each camera (with VBricks priced around $5K ea.) and then as many decoders as we decide we need. So, using a more general purpose computer, and encoding and/or decoding software, is it feasible to:

      1. Replace the encoders with something less expensive / less proprietary than a VBrick encoder, and/or

      2. Replace the deocders with something less expensive / less proprietary than a VBrick decoder?

      That's all I'm really asking. If we could cut the price to $3K per camera, the savings will still be huge. If we could cut it even more, the savings are even more...

  4. QuickTime by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 5, Informative


    QuickTime Streaming Server is available as an Open Source solution. From Apple's website:
    "Open Source Versatility

    While QuickTime Streaming Server is designed for Mac OS X Server, it's also available as an open source server called Darwin Streaming Server. Versions are available for Linux, Solaris and Windows NT/2000. And because it's an open source technology, Darwin Streaming Server can be ported to other platforms by modifying a few platform-specific source files."

    That should help at least with your software needs.

    --

    --
    $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    1. Re:QuickTime by DA-MAN · · Score: 1

      The Streaming Server is free, however the Quicktime Encoder isn't. Nor is the Quicktime Player.

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    2. Re:QuickTime by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1


      The Streaming Server is free, however the Quicktime Encoder isn't.

      That's an interesting distinction, of which I was not aware. Care to elaborate? You have apparently researched the solution.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    3. Re:QuickTime by akb · · Score: 4, Informative

      If one uses mpeg4ip in concert with DSS one has an end to end free solution.

    4. Re:QuickTime by foo12 · · Score: 1

      QuickTime is nothing more than a container for various codecs --- there is no QuickTime encoder per se. The second sentence is just plain wrong: QuickTime Player is a free download.

    5. Re:QuickTime by DA-MAN · · Score: 1

      It goes as follows

      Encoder --> Server --> Client 1
      |
      --> Client 2

      The streaming server is basically a tool to rebroadcast what it recieves from the Encoder. It doesn't have any way of connecting to any video hardware, a separate machine has to do that or a separate program is more accurate. The same machine can technically do it, but there is no encoder available for Linux.

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    6. Re:QuickTime by kableh · · Score: 2

      Free, except that he has to pay royalties for the use of MPEG4. Considering this is a goverment organization, I think he would need to take that into consideration as well.

      I will say I compiled the DSS and MPEG4IP stuff, and it is hella cool, if only because the only viable option I had for realtime streaming before was expensive hardware (VBrick) or Windows Media Services.

  5. PCs running linux by infonography · · Score: 2, Informative

    While the temp extremes your talking about are real the problem is rather minor. In this case the older the hardware the better. Run the whole thing off a CDROM and a small harddrive.

    More heat equals less wetness. Here PVC pipes are your bestest friends. Run the heated air from the CPU and drive area out to heat up the area above the Box.

    Keep a hole in the joints of the pipes to drain stray water. just keep a $5 keyboard hooked up to it and some temp sensors and your done. I have done this sort of thing for other people.

    Worked fine for a trafficCam for a local website. Sounds like you have more resources for this.

    But if you have to spend more then $100 a unit your thinking right.

    --
    Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    1. Re:PCs running linux by infonography · · Score: 1

      Rather under a $100 is right.

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    2. Re:PCs running linux by FueledByRamen · · Score: 2, Informative

      Forget harddrive / cdrom - they're semi-bulky, break down easily, and require special environmental concerns. Just burn a ROM with a netboot loader in it, throw it in the ethernet card, and netboot/NFS-root the whole thing. Makes configuration changes and software upgrades that much easier, too - especially if you can have a shared NFS root for the software, and just have each machine mount its own /etc, /var, and /tmp on local ramdisks, copying the barebones files from a template directory and building some on boot (eth0 config, hostname, etc...).

      An etherboot-enabled NIC attached to an old P2 system (or K6/2 - those are pretty nice, and the K6/3 or a lowend P3 would have no problems. No athlons for heat concerns!), and a proper video capture card (BT848 or BT868 are nice'n'cheap, but you could go for one with onboard MPEG encoding and use a less-powerful machine) with good Linux support should do wonders.

      For powering concerns, if there will be any: Don't bother with a UPS for every machine. Just use ATX motherboards that are Wake-on-LAN compliant. When the power comes on, wait for the network harware to start working again, and broadcast the WOL command. If you're still worried about power/environment concerns (odd 150000v spike from lightning, etc), use a good surge suppressor on the network, power, and video lines and keep a good supply of spare parts on hand.

      --
      Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
    3. Re:PCs running linux by infonography · · Score: 1

      Pretty much what I was talking about b/w more detail, and again most slashdotters won't see this as a problem. Doing stuff on the cheap is too easy

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
  6. ffmpeg by sethgecko · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple's QT streaming server only streams the video. It creating the stream can be quite expensive. try ffmpeg

    --
    Be ot or bot ne ot, taht is the nestquoi.
  7. How do we know... by MacAndrew · · Score: 2

    ...this guy doesn't work for Poindexter? I mean, his cover story is pretty lame, don't you think?

    Big Brother is as entitled to open source as anyone, but consider the irony.

    Carry on. About these "traffic cameras." Do any need to fly on Predators? ;-)

  8. software by Fat+Cow · · Score: 2, Informative

    Run a software mpeg encoder like ffmpeg on an SBC or a mini-itx system. You can make it solid state (leaving out the hard drive) by making it boot over the network)

    --
    stay frosty and alert
    1. Re:software by Spoing · · Score: 1

      I wish I had moderation points...you are spot on (and few others here are).

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  9. Cu30 for GPL by deathcubek · · Score: 3, Informative

    CU30 is one choice for 30 fps live video conferencing.

    Its under the GPL and MPL and has (or still is) been supported via open h323 as an external library and gnome meeting should work. (I havn't confirmed either)

    Qvix Technologies has a propritary version of the same codec, only much more refined. (I used to work for them.)

    --

    New worlds are not born in the vacuum of abstract
    ideas, but in the fight for daily bread     --Rudolf Rocke
  10. Codecs by damiam · · Score: 1
    In the world of open-source codecs, there's the MPEG family (which is, however, patented), Ogg Theora (aka VP3), which may be usable now, and Ogg Tarkin, which has a ways to go.

    Alternately, you could run Quicktime Streaming Server (which is open-source) and Quicktime Pro (which isn't), using Sorenson or MPEG4. However, you wouldn't get realtime encoding on anything other than a newer mac, so that could get expensive.

    --
    It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
  11. Better solutions available by cybermace5 · · Score: 2

    Why bother with expensive, complicated solutions involving encoders/decoders when you can have an Axis Network Camera for $300.

    The Video Server route is a lot more expensive ($800 per camera) but works with existing video cameras. I doubt that would save you any money, since plain NTSC video cameras are not very expensive.

    --
    ...
  12. Ask FLDOT by kableh · · Score: 2

    You don't mention what state you are with, but perhaps you should get in touch with someone at the Florida DOT. My company has some equipment at their regional traffic center nearby, that we use to stream realtime traffic video to clients in the field. I've had the opportunity to visit their data center before and was very impressed. They seem to be using the VBrick units for encoding and decoding. I can understand that you would balk at the cost, as they are quite pricey, but they are well worth the cost. They have, last I checked, 52 cameras along the major highway here, and I believe they have 1000BaseSX to all the poles. All that video comes back to their regional center where it is processed and sent to various media outlets.

    Now why can't I get 1000BaseSX to my house? =(

    1. Re:Ask FLDOT by kableh · · Score: 2

      Hate to respond to my own post, but...

      I didnt mention anything about security concerns. The FLDOT's network is all over private leased lines, so security isn't too much of an issue. From the poles it goes straight back to their datacenter and that is where they focus on security.

    2. Re:Ask FLDOT by xirus · · Score: 1
      Michael is currently working for the Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT). There he works on their Advanced Traffic Management System (ATMS) which is used to control all the electronic devices (cameras, sensors, signs, etc.) in, on and around the freeway.
      from his family site... (can be found in his email address...)
  13. noncommercial by akb · · Score: 2

    Would a government use qualify under the mpeg4 noncomercial waiver?

    1. Re:noncommercial by kableh · · Score: 1

      Good question. I must admit I haven't kept up to date with the whole fiasco, but even the MPEG4IP site admits that you have to pursue the licensing issue yourself.

  14. better question by akb · · Score: 2

    Maybe a better question is if anyone knows of any consultants that can implement an open-ish solution to meet your requirements or perhaps any similar projects to what you would like to do. As you can see from the discussion so far, there are lots of tools but no turnkey solutions, the real rub is in getting stuff to work together.