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GNOME 2 to Replace CDE As Solaris Default DE
Gentu writes "OSNews had a quick chat with John Fowler, Sun Software's CTO about Solaris 10, Java, the web services competition and more. In the interview, Fowler reveals the timing in which Gnome2 will become the default desktop environment: Solaris 10, which is expected to have its first beta later in 2003. This is a huge step for Gnome2 in the UNIX world, as it will be replacing CDE for good as the default desktop environment (betas of Gnome 2 for Solaris 8/9 already exist) and becoming a standard part of the large operating environment with millions of installations worldwide. Additionally, Sun is now pushing developers on coding on either GTK+ 2.x or Java (they have in fact revealed plans on creating GTK+ bindings for Java which will make all future Solaris apps look like alike)."
Sun has been babbling about the switch to Gnome from CDE for almost two years now. I use both KDE and Gnome, and both are far more a "desktop" than CDE ever was.
It also confirms my decision to use GTK for GUI development under Linux (I love QT's APIs and structure under KDE, but GTK lets me port to Win32 clients without cost.)
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
with CDE theme? :)
*duck*
Granted, this was the first time I read osnews, but didn't the article seem weird to anyone? They hinted at an interview, but instead of quoting the person, they paraphrased the whole interview... Who knows what the Sun guy actually said, and what got interpreted by the interviewer/writer?
Je ne parle pas francais.
Hint Hint... :)
Given how expensive Sun hardware is, I'm not sure how much of a dent this is going to make for most people. Many schools have deals with Sun, as do many corporations...but I don't know of any individuals that use a Sun box themselves.
It would be more interesting to see a major commerical player, such as HP, begin to ship Linux systems with Gnome as the default. Gnome already has a strong geek following...what it needs now is mainstream use, which Sun is not.
I've been using the Gnome2 ( pre-release beta 3, IIRC ) Sun beta on an Ultra 1 in my office for quite some time, and even though the ancient graphics card only supports 8-bit graphics and 1280X1024 resolution, it rocks. hard. you can't deny the power of Motif, but as far as a solid desktop goes, GNOME has it. KDE is excellent as well, but I personally prefer GNOME.
I just hope Red Hat and Sun don't gut each other fighting over the corporate workstation market. I am perfectly content using both platforms, both at home and at work, and would like to see both prosper. Ximian is excellent as well ( actually I'm writing this from a RedHat 7.3 boxen w/ Ximian GNOME ).
I'm drooling at the thought of Solaris 10 right now...
PC moderators can suck my White pierced, tattooed dick. If you think pride == hate, s/dick/Aryan meat mallet/g.
Since Netscape 7 is on also Solaris, my guess is an equivalent of Mozilla 1.2.1 (Netscapeized) will come along officially from Sun also.
I speak for myself only.
Not a troll, but does anyone else feel that strategically, TrollTech should have made QT LGPL?
KDE is much more tightly done than GNOME and the overall effect is defnly smoother, kinda like Windows done right!
But if Companies prefer GNOME, then in the long run TrollTech will see reduced demand for its product... or am i wrong?
Of course, there is the counterargument that LGPL would ensure that TrollTech would never get any money out of QT, but i suspect that it would have fetchdd more in the long run, like it is doing for Ximian.... consulting you know!
A crank is a little thing that makes revolutions
The initial write up seemed to suggest that this will be a first for interfacing Java and the GNOME-related libs. This is not so. (In fact, with gcj you're able to write native-binary GNOME apps using Java and the above projects... Admittedly, you're giving up portability but Java is nice, or at least interesting, for many other reasons.) There may be other similar projects out there, that's just what I turned up with a few minutes' search on freshmeat and sourceforge.
Bravo to Sun, though, for making the decision to commit to GNOME. CDE is an ugly pain in the ass, IMHO. Even OpenWindows had some degree of retro charm about it, CDE just looked like what happens if you let Soviet housing block architects design a GUI. Feh!
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
If I remember correctly, the engineers at Sun liked gtk because it used C, which they were used to. Also they felt their customers were more used C too, since Motif is C.
Je ne parle pas francais.
Yes, they're both bloated in comparison to CDE - in fact on any low-end machines I setup with GNU/Linux I've been installing XFCE (a clone of CDE that uses GTK rather than Motif/Lestif.)
"As flies to the wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for sport." - William Shakespeare, King Lear
The rumors that tons of freeware software and even Gnome might be integrated into Solaris started floating around even before Solaris 8 release. After Solaris 8 release, Sun has made several official statements promissing to include the Gnome desktop in Solaris 9. Solaris 9 has been released in May and it still does not include the Gnome desktop. The last rumor I have heard, was that Solaris 9 12/02 (which was supposed to be released this month) will include it. However, I haven't heard a confmation of that rumor in a long time and now this. They're asking us to wait until Solaris 10 release, damn you Sun.
And no, an unsupported add-on beta package is not good enough. I want it to be integrated with Solaris and supported by Sun, just like any other Solaris package (this includes fixing bugs and providing patches as part of Solaris patch clusters).
I think a brand spanking new SunBlade can be had for like 999 dollars. I mean, not Walmart-Lindows-cheap, but I wouldn't call that expensive.
Especially considering that I think you can attach a "PC on a PCI card" and run a full blown x86 OS side-by-side (for what I don't know, maybe apps dev?).
on the other hand, I don't know what to make of this constant change of GUIs. many people loathed it when Sun went with CDE from OpenWin, so they had to support both, and now switching to GNOME when finally CDE is getting reasonabbly stable and whatever (and I am actually pretty sure there are a handful of CDE zealots out there that's very vocal) so they will probabbly need to support all three from now on.
I mean... while good news and all, just another facet of the sun indecision "Sol9 for x86, not for x86, cost $$, maybe not, go with one GUI, but wait lets change it over later." AFAIK Java has not suffered too much amid these indecisions and the specs havn't swayed that much (somebody correct me if I am bs-ing), which is thankful for.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
So, are you saying that trolltech would have a lot more customers if they didn't charge any money?
Fascinating...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
You can write commercial gnome/gtk applications without paying a penny to anyone. QT license does not allow that (although, it _is_ an open source license)
From the Trolltech FAQ:
For those thinking to develop with the free edition, then just buy a license when they're ready to deploy:
The minimal price for a single platform commercial license is $1240USD. See Trolltech - Pricing Desktop.
The price is very reasonable for the functionality, but I only have so much money to spend on tools, and I'm not willing to plunk down the coin now just in case I need to be able to use my code commercially (i.e. to support a client site.)
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Will they finally flesh out the woefully inadequate GTK+ documentation?
One of the biggest problems I've found when developin free software is I'll think "Ooo... this toolkit/framework has the features I need" (happened with GTK+ about a year ago) and then it'll take a month to find documentation or guides about it or figure it out from scratch myself.
It's been said heaps before, but developer documentation for Windows stuff comes by the bucketload and there's less different things to document. Of course, the ever-changing nature of free software APIs may have something to do with it...
This is a big boost for Gnome...and it's been needing the boost since KDE is coming on so strong. Unless of course, Sun screws things up...which is entirely possible. My big concern with the dueling desktops is that for uniformity's sake there really should be only one standard desktop.
OpenWin was intended to run with DisplayPostscript, and did so very nicely. When the Unix standards wars and POSIX were ongoing, CDE was selected as the standard from various vendors contributions (components of HP's ToolTalk, Motif, etc.)
I've never run into anyone who thought CDE was better than OpenWin, but that's what was selected as the standard, and that's what Sun provided. If they hadn't, they would have been locked out of a lot of important markets.
It's not like there is a "constant change of GUIs" as you indicate. OpenWin was the Sun standard from about 1987 (not sure) until around 1990-1995, when CDE was spec'd. Now they're shifting to Gnome.
Note that all the way through, applications continued to run with the different desktop managers. Or were you under the impression that different versions of apps were running for different desktop managers?
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
If Mono, Gtk#, and Gnome2 keep going the way they are going, Sun may be shipping a .NET-based desktop before Microsoft is :-)
Not to start a flame war here, the fact that I personally prefer Gnome to KDE does not mean that the latter sucks (it doesn't) but the Gnome interface is very clean, smooth and consistent.
Allthough flamebait, I agree with you. We run Solaris at school for Java programming, Matlab, Maple and some other stuff. CDE is default of course. Most people have no idea how to do anything. They can open a terminal and know how to start (x)emacs and compile a Java program. When they get home they start their Windows machine and would never think of trying say Linux.
I have of course changed to Window Maker which is fast, stable and pretty. For what we do there's no need for Gnome, or even a filemanager. I presume many of Sun's customers have the same needs, but Gnome is still way better than CDE.
Ciryon
The cost of QT is per developer, so in order to have their customer's application developers use QT, they'd have to include a QT license with the distribution of Solaris development tools. Not cheap. Not cheap at all.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Linux won't be able to ship with Java/Gtk by default until Sun open source the jdk.
.NET environment (from mono), but not a Java environment.
If they don't do anything you will have the weird situation of Red Hat 9.x shipping with a
I know about gcj etc, but to be able to run Apache Tomcat you really need a Sun derived JDK.
-- Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold.
QT costs money for other platforms. GTK is free everywhere.
Qt works properly on other platforms. GTK+ is broken everywhere except X11 (doesn't work, or is very buggy, doesn't look like a native app).
If you are going to recommend an alternative to Qt for cross-platform GUI development, you do yourself a great disservice by suggesting GTK+. Try wxWindows instead - a much better alternative than GTK+, although it does still have issues.
Whenever SUN and GNOME is brought up, there are always someone suggesting they should have used KDE instead. I'm a GNOME-user and I do not want to get into a discussion about quality here, so lets assumed that the (biased) assumption that KDE is better than GNOME is correct.*
The main issue is control. GTK+ and most GNOME-libraries are based on a LGPL-license, while Qt is based on GPL. This is all fine and dandy for free software, and this is certainly not a question of morality. Qt is free software.
For closed source development however things look different. For GTK+/GNOME you can develop closed apps without problems, with Qt/KDE you have to obtain a license from Trolltech. This could be fine for SUN themselves, but:
SUN would not like to be held totally at ransom by Trolltech for all third-party developers. If Trolltech wanted to, they could cease giving out commercial licenses for the SUN Solaris platform at ANY TIME. Do you think any OS-developer would be boneheaded enough to let someone else control the platform? Do you think Microsoft would form the next Windows using Qt?`
The question for SUN is:
"Do we use a platform that is in direct control by another company for third-party development, or do we use a platform that is not?"
This is an easy question to answer wether or not you like KDE or GNOME better.
(*) It might be. I like GNOME better, but this might be my biased opinion. I just wanted to state that this was irrelevant.
It would be the fifth - Sunview, NeWS, Openwin, CDE, Gnome.
... brilliant innovative technology but Sun kept it proprietary while X was BSD licensed.
People tend to forget Sunview because it wasn't X based. Hell, it was kernel based, but it ran reasonably quickly on a 68020 with 4MB of memory across 10Mb ethernet. Sun took their GUI out of the kernel and into user space a few years before Microsoft took their GUI the other way. Go figure.
The arguments about NeWS have been well rehearsed
Then there was the Openlook vs Motif holy war, during which Scott McNeally was quoted saying Sun would adopt Motif "over my dead body".
As for Gnome, Sun have been putting development effort into Gnome for a couple of years now, working on some of the boring bits. They wouldn't have done this if they didn't intend to use it.
Dunstan
The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
It's funny.
I'm running KDE on Linux on dual 2.2GHz Pentium 4s with an nVidia card. It's great.
But I've used Sun workstations from (Sun 3/160) 1985-2001 (Ultra2).
When OpenWindows started to ship with XView and then with CDE, I moved over to use plain old twm, then ctwm and finally fvwm. Avoided CDE all these years. It's only now under Linux that I've conceded to using one of these full-featured desktops because it doesn't feel heavy.
Desktop UNIX is going free and Sun will be wise to change to the times.
Sun still rules in the big server arena, but it could leverage that in making a name for itself in the newly emerging low cost UNIX desktop area, as long as it doesn't get caught up misty-eyed pining for the times when people were willing to shell out $20K for a workstation. Enterprise level integration and management of UNIX LANs running StarOffice, Mozilla and Evolution is a potentially huge market playing to Sun's traditional strengths. (NFS, NIS, etc.)
If Sun doesn't, then we'll have to look to other players that may not be quite as well positioned from some perspectives: HP, IBM, Red Hat, Dell...
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I despise CDE. Not for its obtuse configuration scheme, but rather for the fact that it has so many security holes. ToolTalk especially is the bane of my existence. Take a look at what CERT has to say about CDE. Whoever coded CDE should be fired.
I know this isn't the point that the submitter chose to focus on, but I have to point out the anti-IBM spin that the OSNews author let through or inserted:
The omission of AIX on POWER4 is completely bogus. IBM is Sun's only real competition right now, and Big Blue's offerings outperform Solaris on Sparc at a fraction of the cost.
I'm sorry, but who really thinks that it's a bad thing that IBM is paying a large number of developers to contribute GPL'ed code to the Linux kernel? IBM's work has had a lot to do with the high-end progress that we've seen in 2.4 and will see in 2.6. They're not steering the kernel and they're not subverting the process, they're just submitting their patches like anyone else could. They're adding their efforts to the efforts of others in the community, and everyone is benefiting from the results.
Sun, on the other hand, is willing to make the massive contribution of writing some drivers, if no one else will do it form them. Otherwise, they're satisfied to offer Linux, only as a low-end player, and do their darndest to make sure it stays that way.
It's false that IBM is "not evolving AIX" anymore -- their last release was less than 2 months ago. But their actions clearly show that they want to help Linux grow into the role that AIX currently fills (to be clear, that would be running on pSeries machines to outperform Solaris on Sparc). Obviously, Sun has a problem with that, but why should anybody else?