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Week-Long Free-Software Class for Kids?
mmol_6453 asks: "I have the opportunity to submit a plan for a week-long class about 'Alternative Operating Systems' to our local community college's Computer Camp. The students will be aged 8-16. We've had classes attended by students who used Linux, but we've never set up a class with alternatives as options. We've found that students in this age range, when interested in the material, can absorb a great deal of information in a short time. This means there's a lot of potential to teach them about Linux, *BSD, and open-source. We often get extremely bright students here, the kind who are likely to go out and earn $80,000/yr in a post-90s economy. Some of them are even on Slashdot. I want to give the rest a boost in the right direction."
"Considering that the great deal of material to choose from, I need to ask the Slashdot Community its advice:
- Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
- What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
- Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
- Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
- Are there any other key issue I need to think about?"
Do they need to know how to install the OS first, or should I let them look that up on their own while I make them power-users?
You shouldn't assume that they know how to install operating systems. The main thing is that it takes a long time to install software, let alone an entire operating system.
What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
The one that they are most familiar with, in terms of GUI.
Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
As mentioned above, the one with the GUI will produce better results.
1.Install
2.Doesnt matter
3.CLI please
4. Definitely ask the rents.
5.Dunno
I would really start with installs...and do it with an easy to customize system..show them you can have a full system running with very little diskspace(floppy, even)...then show them how you can add things, and end up with a full fledged desktop OS. Show them the many faces of Linux(r). And CLI is very important, specially in Linux...you aren't really a power user without it. Just my 2 cents.
Which do people learn first: How do drive, or how to rebuild a car's engine?
Show the kids the cool things they can do with the software first, and once they're interested, then they will understand why they need to learn how to install it and do that on their own.
I wouldn't teach them installation, I think it's far more important to get them using the system. I would start them out with some command-line stuff, though. That'll give them some historical perspective, and reduce the fear-factor if they ever need to go into command line to recover from a crash. I would definitely warn the parents about the CDs.
Brevity is the soul of wit
-- Polonius
Well I sure as hell wouldn't work in IT for less than 80k. As far as I am concerned, the dot-bomb was a good way to clear out a bunch of clueless lusers who thought that being a decent coder meant reading a few teach-yourself-something-useless-in-21-days books.
better off without them.
- Start off by explaining "FREE". Explain both free as in speach and free as in beer... though maybe not in those terms considering the age group.
- I would stay away from an install of Linux, you could be there all week answering questions on it alone (What does this package do?). Also, stick with a distro you know, but point out all the others. Nothing worse than not knowing right away where that config file is.
- Next up, make sure they're familiar with whatever editor you plan to use. Leave it open to use more complicated editors (vi) if they know it, but otherwise stick to simpler ones.
- Give lots of handouts/links to sites with further information
- Pick a few languages that you are very familiar with, be it PERL, PHP, C, etc.
- Get some interesting projects for them to work on, be it a webpage, game, utility, etc
That's about all I could come up with quickly.You should introduce them to Knoppix. Then you can even give them the CD to bring home because it is highly unlikely they will accidently hurt anything.
Consider releasing your course materials under the FDL.
(So I can snarf them!)
-Peter
That sidesteps the issues both of "need to install first?" and "giving out debian cds with no questions asked." Knoppix *can* be used to install a permanent, hd-based system, but it doesn't need to be.
Also, it comes with a mess of good apps to start with (various desktop environments, too), so you can demonstrate a wide range of possible uses.
There are (is at least one, anyhow) similarly bootable BSD system, and that brings me to one more reason to suggest Knoppix here -- you don't have to wipe out any *existing* OS installations to use it.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
LFS
That's where I wish I'd started.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Stick with what you know. If you've never used anything besides Debian, don't teach the class using RedHat. The slight variations might make you seem uneasy. Remember, they can smell fear :)
Don't bog yourself down in installation. A coworker took a Linux class where they did nothing but install for the first two days! If at all possible, have the computers pre-installed before day 1. If some of the kids have prior knowledge, they could assist before the week starts.
As far as which features to learn, ask yourself, "what excites me about *nix". Steer the course towards the answer. You will have to start with the basics no matter what. If you tailor the basics toward a goal, particularly one you enjoy, you're much more likely to inspire somebody.
You can never equivocate too much.
You should be giving away Knoppix CD's, not Debian CD's. That way there are no install issues, and Mom's PC at home running XP won't be in danger.
I'm 16. I've been on ./ for a while. I dual boot (right now, I install different os's all the time) Win2k and Slackware.
I like linux and I like NT. They are both good OSs.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
It will have an OS version rather soon, with options of binary compatabilliy (openBeos) or intergrated with a linux kernal (Blue Eyed OS).
You sir, are fucking delusional.
IIRC there is 1.6 gigs on the CD
Where can I buy these magical 1.6 gigabyte CDs?
That's a pretty wide range of ages to cater for. An 8 year old would probably get bored with the shell pretty quickly, and opt to play a few games of xbill (Free games, a great way to learn about the benefits of OpenSource), whereas a 16 year old would probably be more interested in nmap and gcc (You'd better not produce a legion of script kiddies).
:)
And as far as the one who are on slashdot, the best directions you could give them is "Quit trolling"
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
I remember how much I could cram into my head before I had things like bills, work, and life filling up the gaps. I'd say first get them used to the GUI, since presumably most of these aspiring nerds have a windows machine at home. It's likely they'll quickly get a grasp of how it works, but get them used to how similar the desktop is to what they already know; then highlight the subtle differences like wharfing, the menu that pops up when you click the middle button, etc. Then right after, get them to open up a terminal window, and then get them started on the good geek stuff. :)
:) It would probably be a good thing to have alias rm to rm -i or -noclobber depending on what you end up using.
:) Then once they get to see all this cool software that they're using does what they want, mention that it was free and slip them some Open Source propaganda. :)
There's a plethora of 'cheat sheets' that have all the common shell commands in them, so it would probably be a good thing to hand out photocopies of those while they're fiddling around, just make sure you let them know the devastating power of -R.
Debian would probably just as good a starting distro as anything else, but let's not start that war here. Make sure if you give those CD's out to put a nice big disclaimer on the label or case warning them not to wipe out Mom and Dad's taxes. Then again there's whatever distribution it is that installs on a windows partition, less of a chance of destroying the home PC.
Of course make sure they get a good dose of how to do everything they already do with a *NIX box. Make sure you have OpenOffice or StarOffice on there, and whatever other browser on there, if you're really brave, put your favorite IM clone on there, but don't expect them to pay any attention to you afterwards.
Remember to keep it interesting for them, show them where the games are if need be, after all when we were their age, who didn't check to make sure Xbill functioned properly after a new install? Speaking of installs, I'm sure plenty of these youngsters have already nuked the family computer at least once, and Linux installs have come a long long way in the past few years, they'll figure it out.
Give 'em a good tase of the apps that are available out there.
One thing that I've seen be a big "seller" for alternate OSes is the open source apps that one can grab and use. And then customize!
Not all software needs to come in a box.
Is this course supposed to be about "Alternative Operating Systems" or "Free Software Evangelism"?
I'm not suggesting you ignore Free Software at all, but give a little time at least to the non-free alternatives. OS/2, or whatever it's called now, would be a good example of something technically well-designed, but which failed in the marketpalce. Pre-OS X MacOS has a very long and interesting history. There are buckets of sites out there that'll give you enough material for a few hours on each one.
It might also be worth spending a little time on the differences between the various Windows incarnations, at least from 3.1 to 95 to NT.
You've got a great concept here - don't go turning it into a sermon. The merits of the Free stuff will be obvious, so there's no need to avoid mentioning the competition.
Wasting your time since 1997.
I use Debian unstable currently, but I don't show it off. KDE is a beat slower than the blazing speeds I see in the Windows GUI. (Of course, KDE is Free, but some people don't get that.) This is because Debian has not yet recompiled its distribution with GCC 3.2.
GCC 3.2 offers a huge speed increase for C++ code. KDE, built entirely in C++, suffers from GCC 2.x's late symbol resolution slowness. To impress the power of Free software on the kids, make sure you use a distribution that has compiled KDE with a modern compiler. You want to make a good first impression, and that means killer speed and killer looks. For the same reasons, if you're going to be doing anything multimedia (even just playing music from XMMS), use recent ALSA drivers that support multiplexing (i.e., SB Live!), and be sure to patch the kernel with one of the real-time scheduling patches. Again, skipping music is not a turn-on.
From there on out, teach them the power of multi-desktops, keyboard shortcuts, and shell scripting. Start them on the platform with a positive view.
|/usr/games/fortune
Give every kid a copy of the KNOPPIX CD. (http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html) They can take it home and run Open Source stuff on the home PC with little risk of messing up Mom's recipes or Dad's tax forms. There is no installation hassle and it has a very good selection of OS stuff. (The people with Mac's at home just need to be told about Fink). --jim
Explain what the installation will do, step by step (disk partitioning and the like). I'd recommend showing them around the installation process, but coming up with something for them to do for the 10/20/30 minutes it takes to install.
2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I know next to nothing about *BSD as well, but I'd recommend showing them at least two different Linux distros (RH and SuSE, perhaps?).
3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use the shell?
I know a lot of people will disagree here, but I would actually show them the shell first. Bash can do a lot of things here, and show them how to use the basic commands (rm, cd, cat, ls, w, id, top, grep, etc.) and then show them some of the cool stuff like Perl, tr, and awk. Then tell them a bit about X and desktop environments; then let them play with the pretty widgets like xmms.
4. Should I give away Debian CDs no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
Knoppix. And talk to the parents as well, yeah.
5. Are there any other key issue I need to think about?
Tell them what not to do, and (most importantly) say WHY not to do it. If you just say "never never do 'rm -rf /'" then you can probably guess what's going to happen. On the other hand, if you say "if you do 'rm -rf /', you'll delete all of your important files (if not the entire thing) and then you'll be up the creek." Though they should be able to figure this out by themselves once you tell them about how the filesystem works and rm's different command flags.
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
...like indoctrination. I thought we /.ers hated indoctrination.
Or is it just indoctrination that goes against our particular POVs??
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
Well, I'm only 15 myself and I'll tell you what I'd appreciate learning from such a seminar.
/usr/bin wah? tar.gz who? These are confusing things! Teach them.
1. Installation: Familiarize them with the concept of 'live-on-cd' os's (KNOPPIX), as well as the concept of dual-booting. Most linux installs are fairly easy to grasp, especially considering your group is already adept to computers. My fear was always that I'd wack out my HD. So teach them about partioning.
2. Distro: I and others I know don't really have strong opinions towards the major distros. However I feel Debian is a good distro to teach. It's not too easy, and there is the benefit that you are familiar with it.
3.GUI vs. Shell: Show them around the GUI at first. Let them explore. However I definently think that knowing the basics of a shell is important. I atleast grew up using DOS; others may only know Mac/Win. Teach them how powerful the shell can be and how it can actually be quicker than a GUI app. Your students will already know how to use and adapt to a GUI. The shell is a differen't story.
4. CD Handouts: Give them KNOPPIX and your worries will be gone.
5. The two things that I am still most uncomfortable with are software installation and the file tree. I'm still not adept to unpacking and compiling software. And I still have little idea of what all the folders in my system tree are.
/There are 10 types of people in this world; those who steal sigs and those don't
"Knoppix."
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
I agree. I was thrown into Linux by a co-worker who follows the 'sink or swim' philosophy. Sometimes that works out, as it has thusfar in my case, but it's very easy to get discouraged and quite tempting to go back to what you know.
I'm a junior high student using linux on an iMac, here are my recomendations:
>1. Do they need to know how to install the OS >first, or should I let them look that up on >their own while I make them power-users?
Teach them how to install the OS. That was what I had problems with learning Linux, though distros have gotten a little easier to install since then.
>2. What distributions of Linux and BSD should >they be first introduced to? (I'm only familiar >with Debian, and I know virtually nil about *BSD.)
I would say Red Hat and FreeBSD, and possibly Darwin if they use a Mac. Red Hat is easiest to get used to from Windows (especially v.8). I use the version of Red Hat for PPC, Yellow Dog Linux. FreeBSD is supposed to be easiest to use of the BSDs, though the only BSD I've used is Darwin in OS X.
>3. Initially, do they need to be more adept at >the GUI, or do they first need to know how to use >the shell?
Teach them the basics of the GUI and major apps (eg. OpenOffice, Mozilla, Evolution) the first two days, then mainly concentrate on command line.
>4. Should I give away Debian CDs >no-questions-asked, or should I talk with the >almighty Parents so little Daniel doesn't install >Linux over Dad's 'work computer.'
I think there may be a distro of Linux that runs in Windows off a disc image, though I do not remember the name... If it works well enough give them a CD of it.
>5. Are there any other key issue I need to think >about?"
Show them gaim or another AIM client, and mention that they should switch from AOL. Almost every one at school I know uses AOL, except for a few people that have broadband
Make sure that they understand that Linux can be a great gamming PC. Be sure that you demo Linux on a decent PC with an accelerated graphic card, the correct drivers for it and then demo Quake 3.
That should get their attention.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
OK, I'll bite...
/proc/cpuinfo. /proc/meminfo. Just about anything in /proc that tells you all sorts of stuff about your PC.
/boot/vmlinuz > /dev/dsp. Oh, wait, don't do that :) I guess for kids, logging in remotely and playing random sound files to scare people in the room.
* How about symlinks? And no, shortcuts don't count (though that's how cygwin fakes it). NT can barely do hard links (you need a third party tool to create them).
* Mounting partitions in any directory (I know win2k can do this, but you still have the c:, d:, etc. drives). And mounting many different filesystems.
*
* cat
* A well set up security model (yes, NT _can_ be set up correctly, but it seems like often the whole drive is wrold writable)
* Easy remote administration (through ssh of course)
* Native X forwarding.
* This client terminal servers. And kind of along with that, though different is clustering technology.
* Cron. Though NT kind of has this, it's not as easy to use (and the jobs don't run if you're not logged in!)
* Compiling programs.
* Shell scripts. Hell, having a decent shell. Perl, python, sed, awk, grep, less, and all the other productivity tools Linux users take for granted (sure, you can get them for win32, but most people don't).
* More than one workspace for your GUI. More than one viewport within each workspace.
* Text based logins in case you screw something up and the GUI won't work.
* Almost all the software is written with the user's interests in mind and not some corporation's bottom line (though sometimes those two interests are both accomplished). So you get things like popup blocking, for example.
I could go on and on. Most of the things I mentioned Windows can do, but it's not as polished, or isn't as easy to use. Things like Cygwin do clean up Windows a lot, and are great if you have to use Windows (can gcc cross compile to win32?), but having so many nice things native to the OS makes everything smoother.
Don't get me wrong, there are nice things about windows (the GUI is much snappier than X, even on much slower machines; it's gererally easier to get started on; it's familiar for most people; high end games run on it), but there are lots of deficiencies. And I for one prefer working on Linux/Unix to working on Windows, for a lot of the reasons above.
"Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
First I think your title is misleading, talking about 'alternative operating systems' when it seems you blatantly mean 'free Unix clones'.
If you are giving a talk on alternative operating systems, I think you'd do well to mention other things than just Unix clones (especially those trying to emulate windows). Try to show more variety - MacOS, RISCOS etc. Remember the gui/WIMP operating system as you know it is not here to stay.
I'm not convinced buy all this WIMP (Desktop) environment stuff. I started using a command line of sorts (BBC model B), before switching to RISCOS which was (debatably still is) a very good alternative operating system - there are many advantages with being stored on a ROM.
RISCOS is also in some ways the purest graphical desktop I've ever used. It is almost entirely mouse driven and is the only OS I've found with true drag'n'drop saving. (you drag what you want to save into the folder you want to put it in and let go instead of typing(messing around) in save dialog menus.)
Nowadays I tend to use X-windows with a completely blank desktop without KDE/Gnome or any of that stuff and just use keyboard shortcuts, and the occasional terminal. I've completely forsaken graphical file managers.
Windows XP initially keeps the screen as uncluttered as possible and tries to obscure the filemanager by hiding the 'mycomputer' icon. So we are already moving away from our mid 90s obsession with graphical file managers. The next version of windows (the evil copy protection infested one) is rumored to be moving further away from a desktop to create a more 'integrated' feel and is said to use some database backend instead of a normal file system.
Anyway my point is, operating systems (or at least their user interfaces) are changing, and in 10 years time, will look nothing like what they currently do. So try to equip these Kids to be flexible, and please try to inspire them to think about what they want operating systems/user interfaces to be like.
We must surely be heading towards computers like Holly from Red Dwarf or the computer on the Heart of Gold. We have the technology we just need the will to develop it so please don't kill anyone's imagination by showing them, 'alternative operating systems' that are merely less flashy immitations of Windows.
Computer operating systems and user-interfaces are in cars, wearable computers, cash points, phones, robots, not just dull PC clones. We are already moving away from being tied to using keyboards and mice the whole time.
Yea just as I figured. Let's all take my comments out of context. If your kid is 8, unless he comes and says to you "Daddy, I want to know the joys of free software", LET IT SLIDE. Geez. And I AM AWARE that some people find it "fun" (although I don't think that's the right word - stimulating is better) be realistic. Pretty soon Spock and Bradshaw will be replaced by O'Reilly and Wrox - and I don't want to live in that world.
Over here in the UK we've been trying to sell Linux to "cash strapped" schools. The overwhelming impression from talking to ICT teachers is how little they seem to know about computers.
During the summer we had two work experience lads here who were, from the start, well up for it and were hammering out webpages on Bluefish, getting their heads around OpenOffice.org in no time and were just generally fascinated by the inner machinations of networks once you got behind the GUI (KDE which they had no problems with).
The teachers on the other hand seem to understand MS Office, Frontpage and a handful of other packages but bugger all else.
When we questioned the lads about their ICT lessons Word, Excel, Publisher and Frontpage seemed to be as far as they went and once bored shitless they entertained themselves by finding ways around the half arsed attempts that had been made at stopping them running "protected" programs and circumventing web filters.
Basically kids don't have a comfort zone and are keen to experiment and investigate while their adult charges are safe and secure in the knowledge that they know what they know and they don't need to know anything more.
I was thinking of becoming an ICT teacher but a) I can't be arsed with the paperwork and b) I enjoy learning more.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.