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Fuel Cell Powered Backup System
bassrat writes "Coleman just announced the world's first backup power system with Fuel Cells. Like any new technology, it's a bit pricey at $6K but the rest of the specs are pretty decent. Info at http://www.airgen.com/"
Somebody explain to me how a $6K fuel-cell backup power system is better than...
The batteries in that APC are evil nasty horrible little beasts when it comes to disposal after they've reached the end of their life.
Sure, your APC is cheaper, but the Fuel Cell Idea is cleaner.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Anyway, I believe the chemical equation goes something like this:
So, the 'waste' products are water and heat. No carbon {mon|di}oxide byproducts.
The Hindenberg's hydrogen burned off in seconds. The big problem was the paint that used powdered aluminum, which was also electrically conductive. Add one significant spark (possible lightning) plus powdered aluminum (main volatile ingredient in the shuttle's solid-fuel boosters) and you get a big fire.
So yes, the hydrogen fears are minor. Had the Hindenberg been painted in a normal color, and not shiny silver, airships may have survived for some time to come.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
The batteries in that APC are evil nasty horrible little beasts when it comes to disposal after they've reached the end of their life.
Did you happen to notice that this wonderful fuel cell also contains sealed lead-acid batteries, which are the same "evil nasty horrible little beasts" you'll find in your typical APC unit? Now, perhaps there is much less battery in the unit, but regardless it still contains the same type of battery.
Lets see so far we have:
1. Hydrogen = nitro glycerin.
I'm sorry to spoil your pyromanic dreams, but hydrogen is not going to suddenly explode. It has to mix with air before it becomes dangerous, even then it burns so quickly that you would have to compress it into just the wrong size room to cause problems. But hey we already have bottles of propane, butane, LPG, etc. They in my opinion are more dangerous, because they are heavier then air, which means they burn around you, hydrogen flashes above you.
Hydrogen is also relativly easy to detect electronically in the air, so monitoring isn't a problem. If necessary add the good aweful smelling gas they put into natural gas.
2. It'll suck all the oxygen out of the room.
Think about it for a few more seconds will ya? All rooms require ventilation. There are plenty of indoor generators, we cook with gas, etc, etc. Any ventilation requirements will be taken into account when the equipment is installed.
3. Why no use larger batteries.
Batteries have to be recharged between uses. New gas can be added to a running system. Oh but so can batteries be recharged by diesel, or swap in new batteries. This is the same problem.
Generators need more fuel, fuel cells need more fuel, batteries need to be replaced. Which one is more convienant to keep running, depends on how long you need it to run, the availability of fuel, maintainence costs (generators need to be serviced), how long you expect to run on backup power, floor space. So fuel cells would be useful in many situations, think more big picture, and stop thinking about a particular situation. (Eg: use less batteries(20mins), fall back to fuel cell (4+ hours), call in generator.)
4. Fuel hard to find.
Yes, but it doesn't have a short shelf life or anything, what was the point? This is for backup purposes yes? Have you ever tried to replace the worn out batteries in a UPS? As the product becomes more popular gas will be easier to find.
5. Generates water in server room.
Magically enough so do air conditioners which are also in server rooms. We have invented magical devices called condensers, pipes and drains to deal with this.
6. It's not like you can hear generator over the servers.
This is also useful in areas not surrounded by loud machines. Most generators below a certain size are rather noisy. Fuel cells are silent. People using generators on farms, or island power supplies, etc would be interested in this. Once again stop thinking about a particular application.
7. You can recharge UPS when power comes back on, but you still have to buy more fuel.
Two issues:
a) Cost: You are still paying for replacement fuel (The electricity to recharge the batteries). And batteries are horribly inefficient, you use much more power charging them, than you get back out of them.
b) Convieniance: Batteries recharge automatically, but you have to manually change the fuel cannisters. Quite true for this design. However this problems goes away with natural gas powered fuel cells (Same deal as electricity). Reversible fuel cells are also under development. They use main power to split water back into oxygen and hydrogen. But you get similiar loses to recharging batteries, and you have to figure out where all the oxygen will go. (If you've seen a hydrogen fire, then seen an oxygen fire, you'd understand why I'm more worried by the oygen).
1) UPS has battery that runs out. This has hydrogen that runs out. same deal.?
Not same deal. You can keep popping out any buying more hydrogen cannisters and go indefinately with the fuel cell. Your UPS will buy you some time (enough time to shut down your networks safely) but not to continue operations. Essentially it is generator and UPS all rolled into one.
In obtaining more hydrogen, you can either buy it or you can generate it yourself (though electrolysis - via solar or mains). You can see the latest fuel cell stories at Future Energies.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
Uhh, in all seriousness, there's virtually no chance of an explosion.
Fuel cells do generate heat, but if that heat gets anywhere near ignition, the membrane'll burn out long before there's a spark (note: that's PEM fuel cells; I'll admit I didn't read the article, so I dunno what kind of cell they're using)
As to the hydrogen supply, well, H2 tanks are incredibly strongly build things, and rigorously checked for leaks. Number two, leaking H2 shoots up through the atmosphere way too fast to provide a boom. That said, if you're dumb enough to smoke around one of these tanks, you deserve what you get....
Cute, but did you bother looking at the site? There are two fuel options... pressurized hydrogen tanks for industrial use (with some potential for explosion), and low-pressure hydride cannisters for small-scale and residential use. It's pretty much impossible to coax an explosion out of hydrogen entrained in a hydride.
--Larry
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence
Fill a half-litre plastic pop bottle to about the halfway point with LN2. Place inside a pumpkin. Run.
When enough nitrogen boils off the bottle will rupture, detonating the pumpkin. It's quite a sight. We had pumpkin shards up to about 200 ft away. Warning to the bold: I have left at least one important detail out of my instructions. Only qualified individuals should attempt such a stunt. I assume no responsibility for their actions.
That said, you could always put the hydrogen cylinder outside and just run a hose to the UPS. Really, you could put the whole UPS outside, and just run a cable to the server room. Catastrophic failures of gas cylinders are extremely rare, unless the cylinders are abused. I've mentioned on a different thread: treat the tank like a server and it will be fine. (No open flames, no intense heat, no massive blunt trauma.)
~Idarubicin