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Sony To Package StarOffice On European PCs
Jahf writes "This News.com article talks about how Sony is adopting Sun's Star Office suite over Microsoft office in some areas. It's nice to see it being adopted, maybe this is the beginning of a trend. While Star Office is still not as optimized as it could be (read: it eats memory and can be a little slow even compared to MS Office), it has all the features most people need and then some at a much better price." Specifically, as reader Yacoubean points out (pointing to coverage at InfoWorld),"The PCs will be sold in the United Kingdom, France, Spain, Germany, Austria and Switzerland."
My American Vaio came with Corel Office.
Sony's been shipping stuff other than office for a long time.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Here's one to ponder... the article cites that PC makers are now less fearful of retribution from Microsoft for chosing other programs since the anti-trust settlement.
Could the anti-trust settlement, as weak as it is, actually be that effective? Is it really the reason the office suite market is going back up for grabs?
Little slow even compared to MS Office?
I've been using Linux and Star/Open Office off and on for 2-3 years now. Let me just say that anyone from the Linux camp complaining about speed in MS must do their word processing in vi at runlevel 3. Linux is 2-5 times slower (usually closer to 3) on the same machine. I've tried KDE and Gnome, several versions, and multiple distros. Slow. Very slow. Star/Open office is even slower on Linux or Windows.
Linux was more stable than Windows 98. It's less so compared to XP in my experience. Time to start talking up the actual benefits of Linux if you want any converts. Better stability is not one of them any more. Speed never was.
I have to say that startup speed is probably the biggest issue I have with these programs. However, on a brand new PC with a 7200 RPM drive and GHz processor speed, it should flat out fly anyway. At my school we use Open/StarOffice almost exclusively. It's working out, but for the students with under 400 MHz laptops, it's nightmarish.
On a side note, does anyone here know why Microsoft's 'Word' can load in like, 2 seconds, and OpenOffice.org's 'Writer' takes about 10 times that? Does M$ do something special with the OS to facilitate faster loading for Office?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Is there a better GUI app for charts than OpenOffice or Gnumeric? or do I have to learn the command line of gnuplot?
Yes, Corel, the weather vane of IT industry (just follow the opposite direction).
Price comes first, and Corel is valued at cash value, if not even lower. They've got loads of software, WP Office (which luckily wasn't rebranded Corel XXXX to even destroy the brand too), CorelDraw, Micrografx line, Softquad line (HoTMetaL etc.) and who knows what else. And thanks to Corel they're all essentially valued at NIL. Use what is useful and spit out the rest for sale (most of which might even have a chance of success once out of Corel's clueless fingers) or open-sourcing.
Although Corel have tried their best to become totally irrelevant, they still continue to release PR that some journos read, or at least re-circulate. Currently that muscular PR machine is churning out, you guessed it, Micorsoft PR and their employees probably get fired just for mentioning Linux. Problem easily solved by Sun.
Sun knows how to sue monopolists instead of giving them discounted shares and even working for them for free (yes, you guessed who). If Java is worth $billion + damages, what about WordPerfect which was pummelled out of all channels (esp. preloads) by MS. Isn't MS-Office micorsoft's most valuable cash cow? Hit 'em where it hurts most.
And StarOffice... I'm sure there's something worth scavenging in WP Office that would benefit StarOffice. At least WP engineers used to be good at reverse-engineering MS-word filters. Migrating their remaining users out of micorsoft's sphere of influence would also be useful, as would phasing out the MS-windows-based no-revenue preloads that some OEMs use to avoid the full force of MS tax.
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
I've been wondering about all the slowness complaints that have plagued large applications like OpenOffice. Does anyone here do the hdparm tweaks to improve disk performance? I just stumbled across it (after 7 years) trying to improve mplayer's performance. This may take care of much of the slowness complaints we always seem to hear.
Intelligent Life on Earth
I know this is a little naive, but is Sony doing this so they can lower costs on their systems and pass the savings along to customers? Or will they provide a less expensive office package, and maintain their current pricing scheme? Most PC manufacturers (not out of the box) now allow you to configure your system almost entirely, down to the software packages you want (or don't). Will Sony still install MS Office on systems you order directly from them if thats what you want? And if so how much will the price difference be?
Hey how old is Star Office 5.2? Ancient! And while there are many people say it is all I need, FINE, that might be great for you but not for the rest.
I love *nix OSes. But Star Office on anything is dog slow and a nightmare to operate.
I was the Technology Director of a Small University and I purchased a load of new Dells(bout 1 year ago i think) Pentium 3 1.0 ghz. 256 megs of ram. I grabbed 40. We had 40 plain jane 233 mmx pentiums with 128 megs of ram and win 98. We only had liscenses for 40 copies of office 2000, so I smacked star office on the 233's. I had 40 machines that became dog slow, erratic, and crash prone. The ran office 2000 just fine. The productivity level for the students dropped abour 30%. I started keeping a log of the problems and they all pointed at star office. Locking the box up, not opening word files well. Whole slew of shit.
I tweaked and tweaked, and finally threw office back on the boxes and the liscensing be damned. Cause in this case office worked better, the students got into Acess, Excel, and kept on chugging.
On my new boxes I dual booted win 2000 and redhat. Taught classes in both. Taught Star Office and Office. And Office is a great product, yes it is bloated, but you can do *alot* in it. Star Office could not touch it. Office 97 runs better, doesnt eat the desktop and resources Alive.
I like Open Office, still see room for improvement. Loads better than Star. But saying Star is an Office Killer in this day and age that is ridicoulous.
Plus, in poor countries they learn to use what they have, the file server I replaces ran sco on a 1.0 gig scsi drive, 486 sx 25. They had done wonders with the box. Replaced it with Red 6.2 dual 1.0 p///s. Raid 3 on 36 gig scsis.(we got a good deal with dell).
We took a survey of 300 students. They liked linux, they wanted to learn linux, and we taught it. But hands down they voted star office out. They just couldnt be productive in their normal school work with star office.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
Microsoft was prepared to lose as much money as a company like AMD or Nvidia is worth (their current market cap is around $2billion). Now they just released a statement saying they're prepared to lose *more* than that. Microsoft doesn't cede victory to anyone. The PS2 is older and slower and is still outselling the X-box many times over yet Microsoft haven't even blinked.
I for one am loving the PS2/Xbox battle. Microsoft, for all their success, is a young upstart compared to Sony, which has been playing the same game far longer than Microsoft has. Sony almost killed Sega and is kicking Nintendo's ass - they're not about to let some newcomer start playing in their console market. Microsoft though is pretty big too and they play to win. Always.
Will Microsoft learn from their mistakes come time for PS3 v. Xbox2 and come to dominate? Will Sony have learned Microsoft's weaknesses and exploit them to the fullest? Coming to a TV near you, the Sony/Microsoft joint venture: the multi-billion-dollar game, Cutthroat Business.
--
Whose cuisine will reign supreme?
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
Any one of these may not pose any threat on their own, but together they may be in a position to eat away a sizeable chunk of Microsoft's profits. The obvious way for Microsoft combat to combat this multiheaded threat is a two-pronged attack. .
First, Microsoft needs to emphasize the imporance of the network effect (which is basically when a product becomes more useful and valuable as its userbase grows: this effect can be observed in a product like an office suite, where I need my document to be readable on my client's system. It is considerably less pronounced in something like toothpaste ) in its marketing efforts. The pitch would go like this: most everyone is familiar with MS Office, most everyone uses MS Office now, so it's best to stick with MS Office. StarOffice may boast "95%" compatibility, but what business wants to risk their bottom line on the chance that they'll never have to worry about the other 5%?
The second prong to combat the hordes of rival office suites would be for Microsoft to simply slash the price of MS Office. Miscrosoft already pulls in nearly 80% profit on Office, and is in an excellent cash position, having over a billion in liquid reserves. They could therefore easily handle a temporary dent in profits for the sake of maintaining or even expanding market share. This would have the additional advantage of reinforcing the network effects enjoyed by MS Office, thereby strengthening Microsoft's position. Prices could be raised again, of course, with the next release of MS Office.
Or maybe not. Perhaps Ballmer and co. have something even sneakier up their sleeves, or maybe we will see Microsoft's rivals make inroads into the Office suite market. Whatever the case, it's fun to watch the plays unfold, kind of like the world's slowest RTS game.
"Linux is 2-5 times slower (usually closer to 3) on the same machine"
Bullshit. Slower running what? All of those crossplatform apps you tested.
He was probably saying "StarOffice is slower than Microsoft office."
This is a fact. I personally prefer OpenOffice/StarOffice because of it's lack of "I know more than the user" policy, but there is no denying that Microsoft Office is hands down faster at starting and at certain time consuming tasks, like complex scripts and searching large text files. It seems you agree with this statement.
(Honestly I don't think a few seconds loading time makes much difference, but that's me)
"I've tried KDE and Gnome, several versions, and multiple distros. Slow. Very slow"
No more than XP on that same machine. You want all the eye candy there is a price to pay. Of course you can run XFCE and other lean apps, but why bother with real facts?
Linux newbie from Windows:
"This window manager (Blackbox, XFCE, IceWM, etc) sucks! I want something perty like Windows (and with a decent interface and consistant applications)."
Linux guru: "Use GNOME2 or KDE3! They are what you want! They even have more options and power than Windows!"
Linux newbie: "This is great but man is it slow! I was hoping for something faster than Windows. I want something at least as fast!"
Linux guru: "Use Blackbox or XFCE (etc)! They are what you want! They are even faster than Windows 95, nevermind XP!"
Ad infinitum.
"Linux was more stable than Windows 98. It's less so compared to XP in my experience."
Again Bullshit. What is less stable? Oh right why give facts when you can just make things up.
I can't speak for Windows XP, which I hate with a passion, but Windows 2000's applications and GUI are definitely more stable than GNOME2 or KDE3. No question. As far as overall system stability, Linux almost never crashes. Almost. Windows 2000 crashes for me about every other month, usually due to Creative's infamous soundcard drivers.
I would know. I have been working for weeks setting up and tweaking a Linux server to serve Xwindows applications to remote terminals. GNOME2 crashes frequently, but usually only when logging off or running Nautilus. I'd say about twice a weak on light use. KDE3 itself has never crashed for me, but Konqueror and its help system have done so three times each so far, and Konquer has simply frozen once in addition to that. Of course, it is only fair to mention that Internet Explorer seems to me far less stable (but a better actual browser) than Konqueror, but then I use Mozilla on all platforms but OpenVMS, so that doesn't much matter to me.
Fluxbox is stable but simple, and a recent update made it suddenly decide to:
1) Place items in the slit in a large grey box on the lower-right corner of the screen rather than at the top as configured, but ONLY when running remotely over the X protocol
2) Not work at all (GSOD) over TightVNC.
Those complaints about Xbox itself don't really count though, because running a separate user session remotely isn['t even an option with Windows (less the expensive and flaky as hell Terminal Server setup)
That said, Linux desktops crash at least ten times more often for me than Windows 2000 does (which is integrated with its GUI, so when it crashed the whole thing goes down). That is to say, both rarely crash, but Linux GUIS noticeably more. I have tried custom compiling everything with conservative flags with no effect.
You critique the original posters lack of evidence when you yourself offer nothing but that critique. It would probably be best to offer counterevidence rather thanjust be argumentative.
Again WTF is wrong with the mods these days? This was pure trolling.
I was wondering the same thing, but for different posts.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
I totally disagree. OpenOffice is horrendously slow compared to Office 97/2K/XP on all my hardware from the trusty P-120 with 48MB up to P4-1.6 w/512MB. Hell, it's not even in the same class. KOffice is closer to MS Office performance, but lacks those precious 'features.'
Of course, what do I care? UltraEdit + a web browser does everything I need.
that as long as people can get a hold of office cd's, they will install it, because to them it is "free". and m$ knew this, and knows it. the sad truth is that for all their bitching about piracy, it helped them. and they knew it, and laughed all the to the bank. i know that for instance, although my school gets office for $50 a box, it is not available to teachers' personal computers for that price. you think the office97 install cd's haven't made the rounds 1-2 thousand times. ha. think again.
the big test will come when new version of windows no longer runs office97/2k.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
.. majorly in the PC-business. As it is, Microsoft is trying to take over the console-business, something Sony is not prepared to see happen. At the same time Sony is putting lots and lots of dollars into Microsofts warchest by selling PCs with Microsoft Windows preinstalled.
Sony is not alone here, IBM is another company in a similiar situation.
I think it would be in both companies interest to subsidize development of Linux desktop systems.
Here's why .DOC doesn't suck:
.DOC files.
.DOC file format and then tell her that she could be using a slower, less sophisticated, less featured office suite that MIGHT read her files correctly, sometimes.
The majority of people use Microsoft Office. Microsoft Office flawlessly reads
That's as simple as it needs to be.
Go to any office building and ask the secretary what she thinks of the
I'm getting tired of people bashing MS Office simply because it's a Microsoft product. You have to consider the possiblity that people elect to buy these products because they like using them, not just because Microsoft is ramming them down their throat. In fact, I challenge you to find a better office suite than Microsoft Office... (Hint: It isn't StarOffice, it isn't OpenOffice, it isn't Corel, and this is far from a matter of opinion).
OpenOffice will be a glorified text editor for some time to come.
I think, therefore I am an Atheist.
What planet are you from?
Most people will be content with whatever in placed in front of them because they usually don't know what else might be out there.
Back in the Dark Days of Win3x, we sent out our systems with Wordperfect 5.2, Harvard Graphics, Lotus 123 and Groupwise on them. When we were forced by government policy to switch to MS Office, outside of a few troubles caused by file incompatibilities, Word not being able to properly import the WP files that pre-existed, we had very little trouble doing it.
So what it boils down to is a) most of the time the worker bees have very little to say about what their PC comes with, and b) it doesn't really make much of a difference. Therefore, if our government decided to go with Linux and OpenOffice, then that's what people would run!
IMHO, it's all the backroom politicking that puts up the real barriers for Linux breaking into big markets like government. If governm,ent were really serious about saving money, they would look at exactly this combination, instead of continuing the M$ imposed cycle of constant upgrades.