Slashdot Mirror


Sandia's Smart Heat Pipe

An anonymous reader writes "Science Blog is reporting a story from Sandia National Laboratory, best known for its nuclear weapons research. "Evacuating heat is one of the great problems facing engineers as they design faster laptops by downsizing circuit sizes and stacking chips one above the other. The heat from more circuits and chips increase the likelihood of circuit failures as well as overly heated laps. "Space, military, and consumer applications, are all bumping up against a thermal barrier," says Sandia researcher Mike Rightley, whose newly patented "smart" heat pipe seems to solve the problem. The simple, self-powered mechanism transfers heat to the side edge of the computer, where air fins or a tiny fan can dissipate the unwanted energy into air."

23 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. My laptop is always very hot... by pr0c · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No matter what i do my laptop is one hot sucker! Especially when i have it docked, whoever made my docking station (all from Dell) they decided to block my fans on the back of the laptop when I dock it.

    Sometimes the better thing is simply a more well though out design, all this newer technology is good too of course but people need to stop substituting higher technology for stupidity.

    1. Re:My laptop is always very hot... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Like why doesnt the "hot" air get blown throught ducts that channel it up across the screen or better yet through a duct that meets when the laptop is open so the tiny fan blows the air across the back of the LCD so that it's startup to get to operating temperature is faster? this would be a boon to us techs that sit there in a fox hole with out laptop when it's 35 degrees trying to figure out why this fiber node repeater is not doing it's job right. (yes I get to troubleshoot my own fiber stuff.. It helps being the only IT guy in the company with confined space training and certification.. but then they let me play with the fusion splicer too.)

      Or how about (GASP!) someone making a SMP laptop? a pair of mobile P-III processors with a modern OS will do the job quite nicely and cooler than the P-4 2.2ghz oven or the equilivant AMD blast furnace sitting there. (Note to the SMP naysayers.. W2K will take advantage of that SMP even though the apps you run will not. The same way linux has for years.)

      and this heat thing is only going to get worse.... as we stop using batteries and start using fuel burning power supplies in laptops.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  2. Too late... by Quaryon · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... for this guy.

    Q.

    1. Re:Too late... by Big+Mark · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wonder what kind of science he was doing...

      Perhaps all the talk about "fluid interchange" was a bit too much for him to handle in a mature manner...

      -Mark

    2. Re:Too late... by badansible · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's a 'smart heat pipe'? Now I understand.

    3. Re:Too late... by JanneM · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The heating was gradual. There's a pretty well known fact that if you put a frog in cool water, then gradually heat it, it will never jump out but be boiled alive. To a lesser extent our own sensory systems work the same; they react to differentials rather than absolute values.

      In this case, the machine probably got warm, but not so quickly nor so much that it ever became really uncomfortable (and if your attention is fixed on your work, the threshold is even higher). Also, to some extent you can exchange temperature for time in getting an equivalent burn; ie. while something needs to be scalding hot to burn you with just a touch, it can be considerably cooler if it's in contact for a long period.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  3. there's an idea... by TechnoVooDooDaddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In colder climates, the heat could be dumped into hand warmers rather than undesirably into fabric and the flesh beneath.

    colder clients being the 66F computer room? i know 66F isn't that cold, but when you're drinking a code red, my hands get quite numb in there. be nice to be able to flip a switch and redirect that heat up into the keyboard instead of the edge...

    1. Re:there's an idea... by WPIDalamar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Caffenine is a bad idea for cold rooms. It makes your blood vessels shrink a bit, bringing less warmth to your extremeties. I never understood why computer geeks working in cold labs suck down the caffenine.

    2. Re:there's an idea... by jcoy42 · · Score: 5, Funny
      I never understood why computer geeks working in cold labs suck down the caffenine.

      Because when we find ourselves in the data center at the system console, it's usually because something Very Bad has happened. Our brain decides (at a subliminal level) to take drastic measures to avoid having to deal with such tasks in the future.
      --
      Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
  4. keep my coffee warm by jkcity · · Score: 4, Funny

    When they have found a way to channel the heat into keeping my cup of coffee warm while I'm reading then i'll be intrested.

  5. Re:Damn bluesky, its just an illuminated night sky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    news flash, more advanced refrigerator.
    Happy now???

    Damn Joint Strike Fighter, its just a more advanced
    Wright Flyer, no news here.

    Damn AIDs vaccine, they are just repeating Dr Jenner's smallpox vaccine.

    Damn airconditioning, its just a reverse campfire.

    Damn,... well you get the idea.

  6. Had a presentation of this once by cybermace5 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I remember sitting in on a presentation of heat pipe theory and applications.

    The article talks about how the methanol vaporizes at one end, and condenses at the other. Then the liquid wicks back to the first end, where it can be vaporized again. You don't necessarily have to use methanol; the coolant is varied according to the temperature range you operate in.

    The pipe pressure is carefully set so that the vaporization takes place at the optimal temperature. Usually these pipes are used in a vertical configuration, so that the vapor rises and gets to the other end more quickly, and the condensate sinks to other end quickly. The heat pipe behavior is then kind of like a passive heat diode.

    A use for heat pipes was presented; apparently a lot of structures were sinking on the Alaska pipeline. When the ground was frozen, everything was fine...but the permafrost was receding in the warm months. The solution was to keep the ground frozen all the time, by removing heat from about 20 feet down. Heat pipes were constructed with a vaporization point at the desired temperature, and sunk into the ground at the problem areas. The ground stayed frozen, and the problem was solved.

    --
    ...
  7. Re:Forget... by penguinboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Turning energy into light isn't 100% efficient either..

  8. Other uses for heat by UCRowerG · · Score: 5, Interesting
    "The simple, self-powered mechanism transfers heat to the side edge of the computer, where air fins or a tiny fan can dissipate the unwanted energy into air"

    I wonder what else designers could do with that extra heat energy. If these heat pipes turn methanol into vapor, carry it to heat fans, then recondense it (due to heat loss) back into liquid.... isn't this process quite similar to how turbines work with steam? I wonder how much power could be gleaned from the extra heat. Maybe someone could design a tiny electrical generator. I doubt you could run anything significant off the power output, but I'm sure there could be some use for it, rather than simply letting that extra energy go to waste.

    1. Re:Other uses for heat by Jeremiah+Blatz · · Score: 5, Informative
      UCRowerG writes:
      I wonder what else designers could do with that extra heat energy. If these heat pipes turn methanol into vapor, carry it to heat fans, then recondense it (due to heat loss) back into liquid.... isn't this process quite similar to how turbines work with steam? I wonder how much power could be gleaned from the extra heat. Maybe someone could design a tiny electrical generator. I doubt you could run anything significant off the power output, but I'm sure there could be some use for it, rather than simply letting that extra energy go to waste.
      The problem with solutions like this is that the power generation step interferes with the cooling step. In other words, the inefficiency in the power generation reduces the efficiency of the cooling. However, the whole point of this is cooling, which means that you have to put in bigger, heavier cooling mechanisms to cope with the reduced efficiency.

      It might be worth it if you could come up with a super-efficient generator, but that's pretty unlikely. Furthermore, the temperature gradients here are pretty low (boiling point of methanol vs. room temp), so there's not a whole lot of ooomph to drive your generator. Heat pipe designers are pretty happy when they can use this thermal gradient just to power their heat pipe convection, actual generation seems a long way off.

  9. Wrong chips! by bgat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why the hell do we insist on using Intel heat pumps in our laptops anyway?! There are any of a dozen different non-Intel chips that are nearly as fast as a decent P-III (or, at least, from the user's perspective) that don't need heatsinks at all! MIPS, ARM (ok, even StrongARM and XScale), SH, ...

    Oh, wait, Bill doesn't want to support Windows on those chips. My bad. He'd rather force the rest of the industry and users to deal with crappy, Intel-specific problems like heat and power consumption than construct a product that's actually well-designed and portable. Yea, that's "innovative".

    b.g.

    --
    b.g.
  10. fried geek anyone? by elmegil · · Score: 4, Funny
    transfers heat to the side edge of the computer, where air fins or a tiny fan can dissipate the unwanted energy into air.

    Or your skin.

    --
    7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
  11. Re:The real meaning of "memory leak" by cybermace5 · · Score: 4, Informative

    There really isn't much liquid in these. If you shook one, I doubt you'd even hear a slosh. The heat pipes work by adjusting the pressure in the pipe so that the methanol is teetering between liquid and vapor state. So technically the heat pipe moves methanol "steam", and the liquid at any time is measured in droplets.

    They work most efficiently in a vertical configuration (warm vapor rises, cool droplets fall), so Sandia's work is very useful: they are developing more efficient ways to transfer the liquid back to the hotspot in a horizontal configuration, via capillary action instead of gravity.

    --
    ...
  12. Alyeska Pipeline is a very large heat pipe user by gregger · · Score: 5, Informative

    One of the largest applications of "heat pipes" is in the Alyeska Pipeline. The oil they're moving is hotter than the permafrost supporting the pipe. If the permafrost melts... well, we can guess what happens.

    So if you look at the picture on the site, the heat pipe is actually built into the support structure of the pipe joints. The little vanes on the posts wick away heat that is absorbed from the ground. They use a substance that has a very low vapor pressure in order to capitalize on the energy released in the latent heat of vaporization and condensation of the anhydrous ammonia (caused by the cold Alaska air circling around the vanes). You can find the details of this huge heat-pipe installation on their Web site.

    Pretty cool (literally)!

    TTFN

  13. Re:News... Why??? It's been done before. by Jeremiah+Blatz · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I see nothing in this article that distinguishes this "smart" heat pipe from standard heat pipes that have existed for quite some time.
    It's an incremental improvement on a standard heat pipe. The most advanced laptop heat pipes today are phase change, a volatile liquid is heated to a gas and flows out to the cooling fins. These tend to use natural convection to work.

    This device (as is says at the end of the article) uses capillary action to move the cooling liquid from the hot side to the cool side. It doesn't say if this is more efficient than phase change. I expect that it would work better in non-stationary applications, where a phase change material would just get mixed up. They list military wearables as a potential application.

  14. Re:News... Why??? It's been done before. by evocate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a Shuttle SS51G w/ P4-2.533 +1G DDR and I'm very happy with it. Heatpipe keeps inside surprisingly cool and is exceptionally quiet. Some have replaced the fan and fan grill or modified the case itself to lower the noise even further.

  15. Capillary action by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 4, Informative

    Existing heat pipes already use capillary action. I remember a while ago looking at info on heat pipes out of curiosity, and I saw a number of descriptions of various wicks that were in use, and this doesn't appear to be anything new, except thay maybe they've made slightly more efficient wicks.

    Even these new heat pipes almost surely use a phase change - It's most likely possible to do it without a phase change, but far less effective/efficient. Current heat pipes use a phase change combined with capillary action - Gas vaporizes on heat source, condenses at radiator, and is wicked back. Heat pipes can be made without wicks, but they are orientation-sensitive - i.e. the condenser must be above the evaporator so gravity will bring the condensed medium back to the heat source. The Shuttle may not use a wick since the condenser is higher than the CPU, but in Dell laptops they are even, I'm positive that laptop heatpipes already use wicks.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  16. Re:News... Why??? It's been done before. by photon317 · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Read the whole article, it is different. The difference is that:

    1) They're using methanol, which at least some of the current commercial heatpipes don't.

    2) They're using some sort of lithography to carve micron-scale curved pathways into the inside of the tubing. These are customized in order to wick the methanol to the correct locations. This allows them to really "shape" the methanol flow for much better efficiency (send 30% methanol to hot spot A and 70% to hot spot B, and release the heat at sink spot C), instead of just having the vapors/liquids roam around as they choose. This is a boon for any heatpipe, but especially if you have an embedded device that might need complex heatpipe routing to/from possibly multiple heat sources and heat sinks.

    --
    11*43+456^2