A Worried Parent asks:
"My 6yo daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD and is currently taking a certain stimulant whose name starts with R. I don't like it, but for the moment her happiness has improved, as opposed to when she's not medicated where she appears unhappy and frustrated with her inability to find her way in the world. She's sat through an IQ test, and the result was 147, which means she's better at doing IQ tests than 99.9% of 6 year olds. I wasn't that surprised but her teachers were, she's very clever but has difficulty following instructions - which is kind of a requirement in a classroom environment. If she's in a group of kids being given instructions she'll be looking at something else, playing with the grass, singing quietly to herself, etc. She'll suddenly become aware of all the kids wandering off to follow said instructions and then panic because she wasn't paying attention. In a group of people her attention just sort of switches off. I don't think this is something she can change. Any thoughts on how to help? Don't bother quoting the books on this one, i'm after first hand experiences. (i've read enough books :p)"
"Whatever the cause, she is quite different than most kids her age. I was much the same at her age and it was a pretty difficult way to grow up. I'd like to do what i can to make things easier for her.
Given that the Slashdot audience appears to mostly belong to the geekier end of the curve, is there any advice you can impart on parenting the geeky child... whether it comes from what did and didn't work for you as a kid, or what does and doesn't work for you as a parent of an obviously 'different' child.
Discipline is a bit of a problem but nothing that can't be handled. My biggest concern is that she'll grow up resenting her intelligence and being generally unhappy with who she is. The statistics are fairly clear on what happens to kids who grow up unhappy and with a low self esteem. Especially for a girl, in whom geekiness is seen as less socially acceptable.
Any advice?
Slashdot Mirror
I was....am. My kids are border. My wife teaches elementary school and visits this issue on a routine basis.
Two things...first, learn exactly what true ADHD is. Read up until you are sick of it. You need to be able to tell others with confidence how to distinguish true ADHD from other problems. This is never easy, unless you've suffered yourself. Also learn about dyslexia.
Second, remember your goal. This is to support your child. Not to defend yourself as a parent...not to cave in to a doctor or teacher without enough time to help your child. This is the hard part.
Good luck....
Too often these kids are over looked in the classroom and by their parents as being "under-par" by their own analysis because the kids aren't understood, when in fact they're almost always superior in intelligence.
ADHD and learning disabled childeren usually have a very short attention span when it comes to things that do not entertain/challenge/interest them whatsoever. Socially they may suffer a few years behind the crowd (we all hate crowds right?)
one of the things you can do, is find something that interests/challenges her/him to his or her own liking, then build on it. Use that when they are younger (while exploring other options and ideas they are interested in) you catch their idea and sort of mix it in with other things you want to teach them or have them learn about on their own.
For me, it was the computer. If it didn't include my old c128, 8088 or amiga it wasn't worth it. But being preteen, having a strong interest in any area of life with little interest in anything else, AND teachers/parents not understanding it can stunt development of a child.
hope that helps
The question is if there is such a thing as ADHD.
Keirsey wrote a pamphlet denying it. As a school psycologist, he found most kids diagnosed with "disorders" to be SPs. Being schools are not made for SPs, such kids have a *very* hard time listening without hands on experience.
The IQ test, being written (probably by NTs) for NTs, only measure strategic intelligence. With a higher IQ, she's probably an NT (though ISTP just as well, being close to the INTP). As an INTJ myself who was drugged with a double dosage of Ritalin twice daily, I can say that I had no such "disorder". I was merely energentic and bored to tears. The teacher taught at a *much* slower than I needed. As such, I got straight As (except history in eighth grade), all the awards, but Ds or Fs in "effort". Then they drugged me and "they" were happy. Talk about self-centeredness.
If only they'd set up schools by knowledge and understanding rather than age. It's so silly and damaging to potential.
Anyway, I'd suggest that you first find out her interests. A good way to do that is with the MBTI (Book: Gifts Differing). Though Kerisey (Book: Please Understand Me II) has much more observation-wise in his book. With a knowledge of (possible) interests, it can be much easier to deal with such children in an effective manner.
Have you read my journal today?
Have you considered homeschooling/unschooling? School works for some people, but for others it doesn't. Or maybe a half day in school and half day of homeschooling would be best for your daughter. Or a different type of school. Just remember that school isn't the only option. So the kid finds school frustrating and boring. Do you change the kid, or do you change the school?
In my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion), medication only tries to fix the symtoms, and does nothing to correct the underlying problem. Have you looked at alternative medicine? She is obviously far and away better than anyone in her class, have you considered finding some way to teach her in a manner that would be condusive to her mode of learning? Even if it meant home schooling?
I can relate to her problem as I was mentally ahead of everyone in class when I was in elementary school, and I got poor grades because I had a hard time slowing myself down to their level. I survived by finding things that interested me, both academically, and extra-curricular. Perhaps you can help her find something that she can focus her raw mental abilities toward that will keep her interest, and stimulate her development.
If I may make some conjecture, and a suggestion, her imagination is most likely to be very powerful. Help her to find something that will hold her imagination, yet keep her somewhat grounded. (like what comic books did for us when we were younger.)
I haven't lost my mind!
It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
She may actually need a different classroom. A classroom that is more understanding to the differences between herself and some of the others could benefit her greatly. While I'm guessing you may be adverse to "special schools" and the such, with her IQ being what it is, perhaps she'd be better off in an environment where she can explore new ideas at her pace (getting the teacher to keep up with her is another task). The "normal" classroom may be holding her back. Though she may drift from her current friends learning in a different place, the age to make a transition is 6yrs - NOT after 10yrs. of being frusturated (or drugged) in a "normal" school.
Try 1-888-GR8MIND (LD Online) for more help and information.
My 6-year-old, First Grade boy has ADHD, and is on the same medication as your daughter. From your story it sounds like they could be twins. Actually, he's on a time-release version, so there's no mid-day trips to the nurse for meds -- none of his classmates has a clue he's on medication, and I think that's an important point.
I can't say for sure, but looking back I'm guessing I, too, have ADHD, although milder than my son -- I learned to cope, but it's still hard to concentrate on boring tasks (e.g., work).
My advice is to listen to your daughter's doctors -- if they suggest medication, and if it helps her live a more-typical (I hate the label "normal") childhood, by all means go for it. It's certainly helping my son. One example: The difference in his drawing is amazing. He went from scribbling uncontrollably all over the page to coloring between the lines to drawing recognizeable images freehand -- in a matter of weeks! I forgot his medication one day, and it took me two hours to get to the school to give it to him. Later, at our first parent-teacher conference, his teacher said that she didn't consider him any different than any other child, until that morning. She could definately tell something was wrong (yes, we fully informed her of his ADHD before school started).
Good luck, hang in there, and ignore the jokers who say you're "drugging" your child.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
I can't speak from the perspective of having ADHD, however, my 4 siblings and I all had what seems like a strange situation in school. All of us craved learning. We all read everything we could get our hands on from as young as 4 years old, and we all ended up in "gifted and talented" classes. Thing is, right about 6th grade, just about every one of us shut down and burned out on school, and every one of us had a hard time passing grade after grade all the way through high school. None of us ever lost the desire to learn, and we each went after our own interests full throttle, but it seems we were pretty bored with school most of the time.
I'm not speaking as an expert here, but I tend to think that school (public education at least) is not geared toward children who think for themselves. Instead, it's designed to indoctrinate to a certain extent. I remember being ridiculed frequently as a student, not only by the other students, but by the teachers, as well, and always having to back up my seemingly outlandish points that contridicted the common thinking on whatever subject was being taught.
My point is, probably one of the best things you can do is give your child the freedom to think for herself. Give her the option of deciding for herself if the teachers are telling her the truth and the best method to accomplish the tasks at hand. Obviously, she has to respect the authority, but she doesn't have to take the knowledge they impart at face value. Collectivists love public education, because it makes everyone "equal", but in the end, the unique individuals suffer and are labeled with hard-to-define learning disorders so the rest of the group can cope with the person that doesn't think like they do.
Remember, Edison and Einstein were both labeled as imbeciles by their teachers.
First of all, there is a reason why you kid isn't paying attention. She's bored. I'm still this way to a large degree. It's best if she just lears to put up with it. I seem to have solved this by becomming good at multitasking. I'm not great at doing only one thing at a time. In school, I'd pay attention to the lecture. If I was interested in it, it wasn't a problem (as I'm sure it is for most people). If I found it boring, I would listen (and if the teacher called on me, I was ready with the answer) but at the same time I might be doodleing, or thinking about how you would go about programming something, or just anything else.
As for a fix, here is what I have to say. I'm going to assume that you live in the US and that your child is going to public school. My number one suggestion would be to take your kid OUT of public school. Find a good private school. Religeous schools and single sex schools are best. Uniforms are very good too. One of the most import things is to make sure they are good on disciplin, not week like the public schools. If tuition is a problem, many schools will lower it if you do a certain ammount of volunteering. Infact, being involved is very important.
If boredom is truely the problem (as I suspect it is), you might want to conisder having her skip a grade later in life when the social development isn't as rapid. Putting her straight into 1st grade probably isn't a good idea.
Lastly, I have one more suggestion: Call Dr. Laura. I don't want to get flamed for this, or modded down, etc, but I think that she could help you on this if you get on the air.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
went through the testing and all of that mess. Some thought ADHD, some thought Auspergers, and we even had one diagnosis that, "He's just a quirky kid." Actually, we stuck with that last diagnosis. One of our good friends is a psychologist, and he referred to the psychologist who made the Auspergers diagnosis as the technical term, "boob."
Our net:
He's a quirky kid. He's needed lots of patience and work. Luckily my job as an engineer afforded my wife the opportunity to stay at home with the kids. She put in a ton of work with him in the early years at school. He's a teenager, good hearted, and still needs perhaps more intervention than many, (He would forget his head if it wasn't bolted on.) but works and tries hard.
Sometimes we despair of "getting him all he needs to know" before he goes off to college, but he continues to show progress. With him it's odd, because the progress comes in bursts. We're glad he had a full-time parent, and we're glad we didn't medicate.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Maybe she tunes out because she is bored. I did. It is also possible that she has mild epilepsy, and is having petit mal seizures. This was also the case when I was a child. It started out in kindergarten. I thought I would learn to read and write, but it was just games for babies. I was dissilusioned. The teacher thought I was retarded because I refused to join in on the baby games, but when they had my mother sit in on a day of class, I was "suddenly a lively young boy." When mom asked why I didn't like school, I told her, "It's dumb!" In first and second grade, I was constantly accused of daydreaming. When I hadn't done my homework, and told the teach I hadn't heard her assigning it, I was telling the truth. I was put in the idiot classes, but once I was sent for an IQ test, I scored genius level, in the 130s. Now they were stumped, they can deal with average kids, and sub-average kids, but not gifted children.
After several years, and half a dozen doctors, I was eventually diagnosed with epilepsy. When "daydreaming," I was often having a petit mal seizure, and completely unaware of what was going on around me. Boredom with dumbed down schools was cured by sending me to an accelerated prep school, and the petit mals with Dilantin and Mysolene, as I was allergic to the drug of choice, tegretol. None of these is a stimulant like Ritilan. Petit Mal seizures usualy stop as soon as brain growth stops. Once you reach adulthood, it is gone. Mine went away just as expected. If I were a child again today, They probably would have said I have ADHD, and gave me ritilin, which would have harmed me, not helped. I used to work with a man who had been pilled up with that crap since childhood, and was still on it, and could tell dozens of horror stories about working with him. If you would like me to tell you more, email me.
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
Yeah, I'm pretty tired of the drug bigotry. I was a psychobiology major and worked in a psych hospital for 4 years, and am consequently quite unable to judge someone by whether they are "on drugs" -- rather, what kind of person are they, and how hard are they trying? Some of the criticism is condescendingly "well meaning" but is hurtful all the same because of the stigma, and it impedes people from getting the help they need. I think some of it is due to overshoot of the anti-alcoholism anti-smoking movements into a simplistic "drugs are bad" and "drugs show weakness." But that's another topic.
:)
:) (My wife checked also with a psychiatrist who does a lot of work with children and she concurred, so I'm not just being stubborn.)
:)
Briefly, on drugs, and as the parent of a perky 6 y.o. I'm keeping an eye on, I should mention I just heard of a next-gen drug for ADHD, more sophisticated than the stimulants used up to now. Ask about it (it would be nice if I remembered the name, wouldn't it?). There has been a lot of press about overuse of Ritalin, which is just the brand name of one of several drugs, but there is also a lot of hype, and there will always be some doctors pressed by time or parents who write a prescription rather than sit down with the child to figure out what's going on. The child may need both. (While I'm "on drugs," I should add there is a more advanced formulation of Ritalin called Concerta which allows precise once-a-day dosing, and avoids the embarrassment of having to go to the school nurse.) A related problem is the lack of studies of drugs in children. (Speaking of studies, there was a good recent article in the NYT Magazine on a relatively novel ADHD study -- sorry it's not free any more.
From what you write, in my unexpert opinion, it sounds like your child is a mild case. Serious ADHD children are something altogether different, and I used to work in a psychiatric hospital. My son is having conduct problems -- acting before thinking -- and has attention span issues, either flighty or hyperfocused, both of which are classic symptoms. Still, and as someone with no philosophical reservations about medication, I believe he is subclinical and am taking a wait-and-see approach, despite the two calls I've gotten from school so far.
He too is extremely bright, and some do think there is some correlation, though ADHD is no proof of smarts... I have a theory it is more prevalent in the tech community, also, for social and intellectual reasons I could explore but someone here might get touchy.
I also have to acknowledge that dealing my son whom I love dearly has been an exasperating experience. I am tired of yelling at him and feel guilty for yelling at him, it's not my style but on some things like wandering into the street there is not room for negotiation. However much I know there is a biological issue, it is very difficult to not react emotionally to things like the child not listening; the medical is interpreted as behavioral, or even plain insulting. The parents may well go through more pain than does the child.
The question is not whether the problem is serious, but what's in his/her best interest, and even with medication the child has to learn certain self-discipline and organizational skills no matter what. The medicine is neither a crutch nor a magic bullet, and it cures nothing; rather it restores some balance so the kid can take it from there. Untreated ADHD can lead to secondary problems like a sort of learning disability and of course cause social adjustment problems as well. Often the problems go away with age, and in fact there is very little available in the popular press about ADHD/ADD in grown-ups. (Oh, a lot of people don't know about the ADD variant, which lacks the stereotyped hyperactivity -- some people may grow out of ADHD into ADD.)
Finally, my pragmatic view is that while you should not allow the callous comments of uninformed or unprincipled people to affect you, don't tell anyone who does not need to know. Once a label has been attached it can be hard to pry off, and of course kids will seize on anything to ridicule each other. Believe me on this one!
Privately, deal with the issue without qualms, and when necessary explain to a stubborn teacher or school administrator that this is a medical problem, not a fault in your childrearing or character weakness in your child. On the other hand, in some places school officials are too quick to medicalize a problem because it appears to provide an easy way out; there are anecdotes of them insisting a child be medicated. Above all make sure you talk to your child and explain what's going on and why she may have to try a little harder than other kids but is no less a person.
I look back on what I've written and realize I could write a lot more! Read as much as you feel necessary from professional sources, and let me or any of us know if I can help out. A good place to look for reading material is Amazon because of the reader feedback. There are also, of course, entire organizations, Web sites, and discussion groups dedicated to ADHD. The lattermost may be good for commiseration among tired parents -- don't forget your needs along the way.
To end on the upbeat note, ADHD is HIGHLY treatable, and much progress is being made. It was not that many years ago that everything from autism to ADHD was blamed on bad parenting. Here is a short page I put together re ADD, emphasizing the humor in it.
I can speak from personal experience, I was classified as ADHD as well as EMH (Educably Mentally Handicaped) (just smart enough to dig ditches) until I tested with a 150+ IQ. Fortunately, my parents stuck to their guns and got me both LD and gifted education resources. Despite everything I managed to get a Ph.D. in Physics, become a member in good standing of Mensa and a Director at the company I work at.
/. knows, being different is never easy. Remind her that being different is hard but it is worth it!
Here's my recomondations:
-DON'T USE 'R'! It's really bad stuff, and it only dumbs you down. I was on it for 1 week only.
-TAKE MOST 'SPECIALISTS' ADVICE WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. Most doctors in the field don't have a clue and want to medicate at the drop of a hat. Find a doctor who makes sense and doesn't medicate.
-Contact the local branch of the LDA (Learning Disabilites Association ldanatl.org) and network with the parents.
-Contact MENSA and obtain as much info on support for the gifted child. When I mention getting classified as EMH half of the people at MENSA say "Don't you hate it when that happens!", the coincidence of ADHD and high IQ is much higher than you might think.
-Stimulate, Stimulate, Stimulate: ADHDs are often natural polymaths. We can assimilate a lot of information simultaneously, a library card, internet access, plenty of smart toys and a radio can be the key to rapid development.
-Find a 'Conveyor Belt': I think much better with a certain base level of distraction, i.e. while I'm walking or music is playing. It tends to mask out minor distractions and keep a constant flow of thought. Figure out what works for her.
-Fight like hell! The schools don't want to handle the gifted or the special child, they wan't to produce a uniform product and treat anybody different badly (welcome to the hellmouth). Use the LDA and MENSA to determine what the schools are obligated to do and HOLD THEM TO IT!
-Computers are your friend. I can't add, spell, draw a straight line, remember a phone number or write in a legible cursive script. The reason I'm not digging ditches is that I have computers calculators and PDAs to do all that for me. Teach her how to add, write and so on and then introduce computer solutions as fast as possible. I failed drafting because I couldn't crosshatch, now I render 3D with the best of them. Moore's law makes this the golden age for the ADHD/LD/Gifted individual.
-Remind her of Famous People with the same problems. Disney, Edison, Churchill, and Newton for starters. "Do Not worry about your difficulties in mathematics. I can assure you that mine are still greater" -Einstein
-Teach self confidence but include Noblesse Oblige.
-Support her to the hilt! As any denizen of
This is not necessarily an answer, just an observation. This is in no way meant to bash the parents, either. I'm sure it is pretty confusing when your kid seems to have "behavior problems," and sometimes the only resource you have to turn to is a doctor who is gung-ho on the latest fad diagnosis and drugs.
While I'm not very familiar with this sort of thing first hand, I know that ADHD and other similar "diseases" are diagnosed quite a bit to children that don't fit into the mold. Many people feel that doctors are too quick to diagnose this.
It feels to me as if the reasoning in many cases is "This kid isn't normal. So we should give him/her drugs to make him/her act like normal kids do."
Doesn't this miss the fact that this girl (and many others like her) is NOT normal? Her IQ (147) is MUCH higher than an average person's (100). Provided her IQ test was done correctly, this qualifies her as a "genius" (I believe genius is defined as being 140-145 or above, depending on who you ask). I've heard that people with even higher IQs have even more extreme "behavior tendencies."
Obviously, she is going to act much differently than most of the other students in her school!
She is attending a school where the lessons were designed for people with average mental capabilities. She is also going to have a hard time following instructions designed for children in the 85-115 IQ. Even people with IQs in the 120s and 130s have some problems adjusting to these settings. It is probably even more unnatural for someone with an IQ close to 150 or higher.
Even though she has been diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor, I question giving drugs to "correct" the behavior of such an individual. I don't know what long term effects drugs like the dreaded "r" have, but I'd be afraid of neutering my child with such drugs if I found they had a high IQ.
It seems someone like this would not benefit at all from a traditional school setting, at least at such a young age, and would be better off in a school designed for people gifted with high IQs.
It seems to make more sense to nurture someone's high IQ with activities that they can relate to, rather than give them a drug to force them to become "normal."
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
All the people above who blindly dismiss the current crop of ADHD medications show an utter failure to understand these drugs, and how they differ from "street" drugs of the same family.
The dose of Dexadrine given to a child (or adult) with ADHD is far below "recreational" levels. The method of delivery is oral (slowing delivery), and the dextroamphetamine salt is a more slowly absorbed, and less efficiently uptaken, form of amphetamine than the "crystal meth" abused by most addicts.
The criticizers of stimulants as part of effective ADHD treatment also seem to be unable to understand, or unwilling to believe, that ADHD (like most other psychological disorders) is associated with, and most likely caused by a fundamental difference in the brain chemistry of the patient. For these jokers to stand on their soapboxes and proclaim that they believe stimulants to be bad, and not comprehend the how the effect of these drugs on the ADHD brain is different than the effect on the general population further highlights their ignorance of the subject.
My suggestion to you is to not delay treatment for your child. ADHD is a disorder that affects every single aspect of ones mindset, if it shows behaviorally or not. The risk in treating this disease too late is in allowing learned behaviors acquired through the emotionally distorting lens of ADHD to become not only habits, but fundamental parts of ones personality.
That said, yes... I have ADHD, as well. I was not diagnosed as a child, and never had the opporunity to try any kind of durg therapy until I became an adult.
Methylphenidate helps me. A lot. I am able to concentrate, and maintain focus in a way that is totally alien to my normal mindset. Because of that, I only take it when I need it. When I have a very pressing deadline, or a very hectic schedule, and cannot afford to lose time to my mind's diversions.
Perhaps if I had been on Ritalin since I was first tested at the age of 6, then I would want it regularly. Right now, when I'm on Ritalin I feel like a different human being. At times, that's exactly what I need, but other times, I just want to be myself. Often, when I am using methylphenidate at work, I stop taking it on weekends.
If you have a child who may have ADHD, be careful. Be sure of the diagnosis. If Ritalin helps, then see if the child likes it. Some children would rather be on medication than feel like their brain is going out of control. Other's would rather deal with the consequences of ADHD than feel like their mind is in slow motion. In this instance, get the best advice you can get, but let your child join in the decision process.
Consult a physician about any change in your child's medications. Some doctor's believe that not keeping a continual dosage can be harmful.
Good Luck.
Do not confuse duty with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different.Duty is a debt you owe to yourself.
Not talking peanuts and shock necessarily, but there are a host of pages out there by some very good sources about this topic.
For example, for me most soft cheeses get me all "distant" and everything starts going all "tunnel vision." I can function, but feel like I'm having an out of body experience. For other people, it's nuts, berries, etc. and jitters. Many people point to sugar as a culprit, but that's a bit of a cop-out.
Try "ADHD food allergy" in Google and you might be surprised.
As a former teacher, and a parent, I'd recommend that you locate a good dietician for suggestions. To make a generalization, doctors aren't a good source for this kind of help since they aren't taught nutrition; our family is vegan and the pediatrician asked about my daughter: "where does she get her protein?" A friend is a doctor and it's amazing the number of things he doesn't know about nutrition, like what foods have what vitamins, etc.
Another reason smart kids have "ADHD" is they just get bored easily, too. My IQ's in the range of your daughter's (as are many people who post here) and I'm sure most found the early years of education a long, tedious wait for people to get to the point. As a teacher, I now know that very few schools allow a room of 20-30 kids to each explore their own way of learning things. My parents got called in to a conference once because I "wouldn't stay on task" - apparently, I would go to look up a word in a dictionary, and end up finding another word too, and another, etc. I learned a lot of words, but annoyed the teachers.
Take care and I hope it all works out for you.
-insightkingfillATyahoo.com without the royalty.