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Gutnick Can Pursue Dow-Jones Libel Case
Anonymous Coward writes "Libel cases based on Internet material could be mounted anywhere in the world, after a landmark judgment handed down by the Australian High Court today. International news service Dow Jones failed in its bid to have a defamation action brought by mining magnate Joseph Gutnick heard in the United States."
Try again.http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/high_ ct/2002/56.html
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
#1. How can they enforce this sort of thing on everyone?
For example:
Let us say that I say something mean about someone in Australia on the web. That person then files
suit against me in an Australian court.
I have no presence in Australia. Even if they manage to serve the suit to me via mail or something, what inclines me to go to the court? What can they do to me, since I'm in the USA?
Would they try to get the US Government to extradite me? Sure, it might just prevent me from ever visiting Australia, but I don't see how they could get someone over there to trial.
Since Dow Jones probably has some sort of presence in Australia, I can see how they might be more inclined to follow the court's orders... but what about everyone else?
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Doesn't work. The person being defamed/libelled is a third party, not the reader of the site. They could sue for libel without ever having read the site, or encountering your proposed disclaimer.
I agree it was completely inaccurate and reactionary, but you're wrong that this won't affect the rest of the world. It will, and in at least 2 ways. First, it means that any legal person (ie, includes corporations) which has offices in Australia can now be held liable for posting information to a server in Uzbekistan, if that information is viewed by the relevant public in Australia. The second way in which it matters to the rest of the world is that it sets a precedent, and one which IMHO (and IAAL, so I know a little about this) will impact judicial thinking in other jurisdictions, and quite probably along the same lines. Defamation law, like Copyright law, is one of those things which is slowly becoming internationally equivalent... epect this in a Court Near You soon.
I'm surprised no one has refrenced this yet... http://www.snpp.com/episodes/2F13.html Andy: Hear ye, hear ye. This session will now come to order. With the cooperation of the US Department of State, we have present today one Bart Simpson.
[everyone mutters amongst themselves]
I believe he has something to say. Bart?
Bart: [goes to microphone, scratches, clears throat several times]
I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what I did to your country.
[everyone applauds]
Andy: [jovial] Well, you're free to go, Bart...right after your additional punishment.
Homer: Punishment?
Andy: Well, a mere apology would be a bit empty, eh? Let the booting begin.
Homer: Booting?
Andy: Aw, it's just a little kick in the bum.
[a man with a gigantic boot walks in]
Bart: Y'uh oh.
A. if you post something defamatory on the web, and it affects someone somewhere in the world, don't be surprised if they try to sue you in whatever country that person has a reputation to protect.
B. most baseless suits (including those where the plaintiff has no reputation in the country where the suit is lodged) will be stayed in most jurisdictions--it's called forum non conveniens.
C. defamation is not a crime. This isn't about extraterritorial criminal laws.
D. Insulting a religion or king *may* be a crime -- eg lese majeste in Thailand. Problem: depending where the poster is, courts of that country may not have jurisdiction, and the crimes are unlikely to be extraditable (no dual criminality and all that). Solution: if you insult a country or its king, don't visit it. If you insult a religion, don't visit countries where that is an official or protected religion.
E. much free speech law in the US proceeds on a bogus premise anyway. The First Amendment (try reading it) is supposed to prevent the Government enacting laws which impose censorship ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press") and was intended to prevent laws stifling policical discourse. It is a restraint on Congress' ability to enact laws. It shouldn't apply to one private person slurring another without justification, any more than it applies to shouting fire in a crowded theatre. No Federal law == amendment not apply.
F. Even if a US company or person is sued overseas, unless they have assets in that jurisdiction, they are likely to be safe. No assets = nothing to enforce the judgment against locally, even if the plaintiff wins. Further, US courts will probably not enforce a foreign judgment obtained under libel laws which are incompatible with the ridiculously overbroad reading given to the First Amendment.
G. the issue in the Dow Jones case was interlocutory: could the case proceed to hearing in Victoria or not? There has been no trial. Whether the story was defamatory or not, and whether or not any defence applies, is only now to be considered.
H. the result of the judgment is to affirm responsibility -- if you have to power to say something nasty about someone, wherever they are located, you have the correlative responsibility for what you say. Being based overseas is no excuse. My spin: if you don't like that, use technological means to limit who sees the material; and/or check your facts about what you are saying; and/or don't make it a slur; and/or check the local laws of the places your target lives & has a reputation, and is accordingly likely to sue. (The judgment also politely observes that many US courts do not understand the single publication rule! :).
I. Godfrey v Demon was not about this issue. There, the defendant ISP which carried the objectionable posting was based in the UK, as was the plaintiff. See a good potted summary of the case.
J. Before anyone jumps to a conclusion and complains about US-centricity, I am not based in the US. Many web servers are.
K. I am a lawyer, but this post does not constitute legal advice, is not offered with any warranty, and I assume no responsibility for anyone acting upon it.