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Project Entropia's Universe Solidifies
Psyiode writes "Swedish interactive entertainment developer MindArk today announced the virtual universe Project Entropia is going gold on January 30th 2003. If you'll recall, Project Entropia is a MMORPG where everything is purchased with real money and slowly degrades during use. Could this be the way most online games will be played (and paid for) in the future?"
Last time I checked the beta out, it lacked certain prerequisites for a good game environment, including the ability to walk. Seriously. The character models had no walk animation, and instead, just slid around. I have serious doubts about this game, mostly because it seems that more effort has gone into the complex systems (read: economy) than into the user experience. Just my 2 cents.
They're saying that they've invested over 15 million USD in the game already and will continue to invest over 5 million USD/year! That sounds like a horrific amount of money for them to try and make back. Expect a virtual cup of coffee to cost 10 bucks real money!
Also, I live in Sweden and work in the Internet industry here and I've never heard of this company. If their investment has been as large as they say it has, I would expect to have heard something about them. (I would also expect them to build a website that *doesn't* crash my browser (IE 6!) every time I visit the site!).
Just my 2 Entropian cents!
A little planning goes a long way...
In game you have a vitual wallet. You are able to make transfers to and fom your real bank account at any time. So if you earn money in the game you are earning money in real life too.
It's not like you can't get things for cash in every OTHER game like this, they're just starting out that way from the onset.
The real question is whether you can buy character skills. Paying real cash for things isn't so bad when characters still need to acquire skills through practice - then you can also acquire things through skills. I.e. maybe I can buy a "Sword of Moderate Death" for $20, but the only way to get a "Sword of Extreme Death" is to find a level 99 Wizard to enchant it - and maybe that Wizard is going to want some cash for his services.
The cash thing just makes this game more of an extension of the real world than a substitute. No more getting spanked by some 12 year old who can play 16 hours a day because you have a real job and they don't - now your real job is worth something in the game.
'Course, me personally, I'd rather get laid.
paintball
I played a MUD when I was in HS/college, and I was arguably the best player in the game, and my clan was definitely the best clan in the game. The game also had an outlaw system similar to this one, and sure enough, everyone in my clan had outlaw flags.
However, we wern't outlaws - we WERE the law. If you were nice, you were treated nice, and if you killed and stole from people, we'd hunt you down. Most people gave us a wide berth, but some would think they could take us on, and they'd get beat down too. The rest wanted to join the group.
Not saying it's not possible the top 10-20 players won't form an outlaw group, but it's also possible that the top 10-20 players form a more benevolent power structure.
paintball
with a payment scheme like this, they can easily make subtle game economy changes to basically raise the fee for playing. whereas in a monthly fee based game if they up the fee by, say, 150% of what it is, it is quite a bit more noticeable and users will easily drop out or complain.
the idea seems like a good one to people looking to play the game, but it is incredibly sneaky from the other end when you think about it.
for example, they are able advertise being able to play the game for free, what they don't tell you is you can't do anything without buying anything, thus, severely limiting gameplay. to really play the game you need to purchase $10 worth in items that decay within a month, after which point you must buy another $10 worth. they can easily monopolize the market by making themselves the only provider of items in the game. sure you can create your own things but how good is it compared to the store bought equivalent? they don't give such details on the website.
transactions can be really simple, they can make an agreement in the game so clicking a button decrements/increments directly from your credit card instantly. only people who are calculating the money conversions and keeping track of how much they spend will be able to realize the actual cost of playing the game.
i'm not sure i'll play this game for fear of losing my sense of reality and my money along with it.
The whole concept seems contrary to what many gamers go for in MMOGs. Don't players LIKE that advantage in the real world doesn't follow into the game world? Project Entropia allows players to buy into power using real dollars, so I guess it stands to reason that wealthier real world players will acquire more power and wealth in the game. I'm scratching my head wondering how this translates to better gameplay.
Maybe this setup will attract older players with more disposable income?
It really sounds as if the Entropia people saw knuckleheads spending thousands on Ebay to buy Ultima characters and decided to cash in by routing that money into their own pockets. I mean, everything in the game degrades. And who is the only "manufacturer" of new equipment? Hmm.
Besides, the first schmuck who loses a bunch of money on some crappy item will sue the company.
This thing almost sounds like a good way to launder money or move it between shady sources...
"In the new universe, real-world money can be used for virtual-world or real-world transactions (patent pending)."
They're even going to patent real world transactions!
It looks like they will offer insurance, you can transfer your credits back to USD, pk'ers can't steal your credit card in the game. The base exchange rate is 10 eBux = 1 USD.
01:36AM up 426 days, 2:46, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.11, 0.05
Yeah. If my reality sucks because I'm poor, do I want my virtual experience to suck exactly like that? I don't think so :o) I have the distinct impression that the game is going to succeed with those with a lot of money to throw away - and I am not saying there isn't a viable market, there. It's just that I don't feel I'm part of that market.
Sigged!
From THIS article...
...At the request of Microsoft, Adobe Systems, other members of the Business Software Alliance (BSA) and nearly 70 local court officials in Gothenburg, Sweden, swept through MindArk's offices, temporarily shutting down company operations while the bailiffs catalogued every piece of software in the place. ...
/. back in June with a note on my thoughts regarding established big biz hijacking and controling any developing net based economy.
I submitted this to
I wish I saved the rant in ascii and still can't believe it was rejected. (What? I must be new here)
"Hey, you just sold me a so-called magic armor which in fact didn't save my ass at all ! I want my money back, NOW !'
So I guess every has figured out how it works by now, you buy items and then you kill monsters/other people in hopes of finding more valuable items and making a profit. So there will be 2 types of players in this game, the guys who are really good and make a profit, and the suckers, who lose money while supporting who whole thing. Now how long do you think the suckers are going to keep losing money for? Maybe a month if they're stupid, probably less. This thing is basically like a large pyramid scheme, the only way it works is if you keep getting people who are stupider than you to join in at the bottom, and that's not going to happen forever, so eventually it collapses.
Read more on this link.
Fortunately this game looks really boring. Without player vs player encounters I can't see why anyone would want to invest sums of money to make their character any better.
If you're interested in an almost fully functional online world where PvP and Guild vs Guild competition is the main objective then check out Shadowbane where you can literally change the world.
Open beta will occur in the new year.
- This and all my posts are public domain. I am a Physicist. I am not your Physicist. This is not Physically advice
Please choose your avatar... will you be Warlock, wizard, magician, theif, lawyer, policeman, taxman...
1 461&pageversion=1
A crime in the virtual world is a crime in the real world too. You steal game credits and you're stealing real money. So the first time you see any crime in this mmorpg report it to the police immediately at: http://www.polisen.se/PSUser/frameset.jsp?nodeid=
I know what I'm gonna do - hack into city bank - transfer as much money as possible to a swiss bank account somewhere - and when they come to arrest me I'll say - oh - I'm sorry - but I thought that citybank was just a mmorpg - and surely this is just a virtual theft - where's the harm in that.
Seriously though - the second you can turn mmorpg income back to real income - you have a lot of very serious ethical questions. If someone steals from me online - do they pay tax on that income or not. If I hack the code to generate income - is that tax deductible, is it a crime? Is a crime in the virtual world not a crime in the real world too?
Or just small gangs, its all about skills, outlaws prolly play 24/7 and know every little thing there is too know about the game, including any little cheat that might help a little bit in gaining a advantage..
;)
We got killed and killed again in Ultima Online just by one player, maybe we sucked, but i think he just was a skilled 13 old r0xx0r...
Now with real money maybe playing robin hood (wow i just noticed robin sounds like robbing hood, he is robbing every one in the hood) will be worth while stealing of the cheap as outlaws who have more stuff then others have anyways
This is probably going to attract people who hope to be able to make money from the being in the game (we see this in just about all other online games, where they sell items and equipment for real life money) - it may also be a way for nolife nerds to make a living without leaving their sofa!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
The concept of real life money being involved in this game is interesting, however, the lack of information concerning how they will protect monies in game and your account information disturbs me. - Below is an excerpt from their FAQ.
18.7 How is my account information protected?
There is a complete security system to take care of this.
18.8 How is account hacking going to be handled?
As you must understand we cannot reveal any details about our security.
This does not inspire me to trust them or their product/service. - Are they using SSL? Something different? What protects the players in game account and real life account? What happens if there is a server hiccup and I get charged twice for an item? Is my account credited? Do I have to prove my case, if so how, what information must I supply. Must I hand over *very* personal information, like Paypal requests in account disputes, if something goes wonky with my account or if I am accused of some wrong doing? I guess players get to email the support/dev persons and pray that they are more forthcoming with information than the FAQ. But since they haven't told you anything already, do you expect them to tell you anything, down the road, when something bad goes down? I feel there are too many questions not already answered when the game is only a month and a half from gold.
I'm sorry but this just seems like playing poker with a professional dealer while blindfolded.
Sounds like a great way to launder large amounts of cash. Rocco spends a ton of money in-game from a non-extraditable country, and 'sells' it all to Vinnie's character, who cashes out, happily legal and flush.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
If they make it a possibility to 'win' in the game, make it a bit of a gambling like, restrict the weapons heavily so that you cannot directly get the best weapon, have a lot of unique weapons.
;)
With the 'win' ability i mean you could find some good weapon and sell it for real money or real money trading between players. And also perhaps virtual dice games, roulette etc...
Charge the players very small monthly fee like 1USD and the weapons etc... costs they get revenue from there but if there just would be a chance that good player could gain cash also. that would be need to be very exactly balanced etc... to not increase pkiller count. for example if they'd make it so that both players fighting needs to have pkilling mode turned on and of course it should be hard to both see what kind of character with what powers they have.
This would lead to people taking duels etc... and might create a 'sub-culture' on the game =)
With what i mean a very good player is like top 2% could play actually without fees and few could gain from it, and perhaps so that there could be people getting from quests etc... very good weapons all the time and selling to those players in need of them, thus creating it so that few players could play as their work, and this would in time perhaps make so that NPC merchants etc... would be just for the n00bs as there are player groups where some of them goes hunting weapons etc... and one or two stay's in the cities selling that stuff.
Pulsed Media Seedboxes
If the rate is $1 = PED10 then how is stealing 1000PED off someone in the game any different from mugging them and stealing $100 from them in real life?
Seems like this is blurring the fine line between the virtual "world" and the real world a little too much.
This has probably been mentioned, but... If you're putting down money on a game, and then taking money back at the 'end' of the game, isn't that gambling? When I was 12 years old, I remember going to an arcade in New Hampshire, USA, called "Fun Spot", where you exchanged money for token which you could use to play video games, skeet shoot, stuff like that. They also had a machine where you could pump tokens into in hopes of winning more tokens. I hit the jack pot on that particular token machine, and got the bright idea that I'd exchange my tokens for cash -- i was a smart kid, cash was surely better than some 8 bit crummy games of the day, BUT! You weren't allowed to exchange the tokens back for cash -- cause it's considered gambling! I was bummed. Anyways... I personally have nothing against gambling, but... Uncle Sam isn't so keen on kids gambling (although this is a sweedish game, i assume they're looking for some american customers), think there might be an issue with letting kids play a game where you can put down real cash to win or lose it? And for the sake of discussion -- what will morally conservative types think about a game where you can kill someone and take their -actual- money. Regardless, I think it's a relatively neat idea -- and yes, ground-breaking. But, you won't see me signing up for it. I have a modest budget, and If I lost my wad cause some spoiled brat kid fragged me cause they have the money to spend on the best weapon, i'd be turned off for life, so... I just won't go there.
What greed, what arrogance. Hey, let's take the least-desirable aspect of MMORPGs and integrate it into the game so that everyone has to take part in it.
It might not bother me so much if they were actually proposing something new. They aren't; standard MUD fare is all they've got. They've just imposed a pyramid-scheme on it, with themselves at the top. You can get items in the game that are worth "real money", but who are you going to sell them to? The only people that will be motivated to play this game are people who want to make money doing it.
Maybe they should have couched all this in some sort of cult (rather than expecting one to form around it). It would make more sense.