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Old and New Technology in the Land of None

ninthwave writes "The Guardian has this article on the adventures of piano tuners in the Amazon. I think it is a nice lesson in the age of technology to see the perceived hardships of using technology in areas where the natives are quite happy without. More impressive is the old wooden piano seems to survive better than the new synth but that is horse of a different colour."

19 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. phew by grub · · Score: 4, Funny


    I almost didn't get to read this story on old technology, one of the tubes in my computer died.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  2. What needs tuning... by craenor · · Score: 5, Funny

    The piano? Or the guy who delivers a baby grand piano into the Amazon...

  3. Not exactly apples to apples.. by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    "More impressive is the old wooden piano seems to survive better than the new synth but that is horse of a different colour."

    I found this statement a little lacking in depth. The 'synth' isn't there to replace the piano specifically, it's there to provide a wide range of sounds. The keyboard interface is a very practical one for a classically trained musician to pick up and play. If it were here to replace the piano, it would have to not only faithfully recreate the sound, but it'd also have to provide the same feedback a piano does. When you play a piano, you can feel the hammers hitting the strings. This kind of feedback make it more natural to play. That's why it still has it's place.

    Sorry for the rant, I just found the comparison a little silly. Kind of like comparing an alarm clock to the clock in Windows.

    My comment about the 'keyboard interface that any musician can pick up' reminded me of something kind of interesting. Have any of you seen how the sound for the Simpsons is mastered? The sound guy has a guitar hooked up to a computer. He uses it to time when sounds take place. I thought that was a very unusual use for a guitar, but that's what he could play! I thought that was pretty cool.

    1. Re:Not exactly apples to apples.. by pogen · · Score: 5, Informative
      When you play a piano, you can feel the hammers hitting the strings.

      Actually, you can't. The hammer loses contact with the rest of the action before it hits the strings so that it can bounce back and allow the strings to resonate. Otherwise, by holding the key down, you would also be holding the hammer against the strings, giving you a nice "thud" sound.

      But I'm just being pedantic. Yes, the action has a certain feel that is lacking in most synthesizers. There are a few, though, that have come reasonably close.

  4. Eww... by Wampus+Aurelius · · Score: 5, Funny

    The case was full of insect eggs; she thought that perhaps cockroaches had done the damage and spent a few minutes chasing one adult through the innards.

    Can you imagine when someone plays Beethoven's 5th?

    DONG DONG DONG (squish)

  5. Engineering is NOT high-tech by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Engineering DOESN'T HAVE TO BE high-tech.

    It only has to WORK WELL, with whatever is at hand.

    Inuktitut writing looks cryptic. Yet it was devised by whites, and designed to work well with the writing implements available to the inuit: bones and stones. They weren't forced to use the roman alphabet which they could not transcribe properly.

    Good design and engineering works by using what's available, not shoving down foreign and/or scarce technologies.

  6. The depressing part of the story by gosand · · Score: 5, Insightful
    An interesting read I guess, but I never really got the point of the story except that it was a heck of a challenge to get that piano delivered. I found this part of the story to be particularly sad though:

    But if any of us had been expecting half-naked, blowpipe-wielding savages, we were disappointed. The American missionaries who converted the tribe in the 1950s taught them Christian modesty, and they now favour shorts and T-shirts, largely supplied by visitors and aid agencies. The footwear of choice is the plastic flip-flop.

    A tribe that small, in that remote of a location, and Christians still feel the need to impose their religion on them. Quite sad.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:The depressing part of the story by Planesdragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A tribe that small, in that remote of a location, and Christians still feel the need to impose their religion on them. Quite sad.

      Hardly.

      Let's assume, for the sake of understanding the Christian missionaries, that they ARE right, and that life now and hereafter DOES get better if you're a Christian.

      Given _just that_, it makes sense to want to expose as many people as possible to their religion.

      Now, if we discard the "the Christians are right" assumption and simply look at it from a general standpoint, it STILL isn't "sad." It's not like they're requiring them to make pilgrimages to Rome (Muslim tradition) or give up temporal desires (Bhuddism).

      It's a form of charity, which, seeing as most of humanity thinks that clothing is a good thing, can be concluded as more than cultural self-interest and being real honest charity.

      Please, drop your anti-Christian/anti-religion bias. If everyone in the world had computers, you wouldn't call Linux (over BSD or the existing-and-never-upgraded-DOS) advocates "sad" now, would you?

    2. Re:The depressing part of the story by Greedo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't mean this confrontationally, but how do you know no one "made" them accept Christianity?

      The fact that someone even attempted to convert them, let alone that they succeeded, is bad enough. What was wrong with their belief system before that some missionary felt it their duty to "save" these "savages"? The history of missionary work is rife with "forced" conversions (Inquisition, anyone?). I realize this probably wasn't the case in the 1950's, but who knows.

      Those American missionaries also taught them "Christian modesty", which could be a thin disguise (in my tin-foil hat world) for "American hegemonic consumerism". Why else would they favour shorts and T-shirts, or ask for an electric keyboard.

      Again, missionary work isn't always about spreading the Good Word. In fact, it is based on the assumption that the indigenous Good Word wasn't Good Enough to start with.

      --
      Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
  7. How sad... by tswinzig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The American missionaries who converted the tribe in the 1950s taught them Christian modesty, and they now favour shorts and T-shirts, largely supplied by visitors and aid agencies. The footwear of choice is the plastic flip-flop.

    No comment necessary?

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
  8. Pianos and humidity by ThinkingGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I remember reading an article years ago about people in Japan donating old pianos, mostly to southeast Asia (There had been a boom in piano sales in Japan a while back, when many parents were signing their kids up for piano lessons, but with the boom over, most of these pianos sat unused in Japanese homes).
    The problem was that pianos made for sale in Japan didn't handle the humid climate of southeast Asia and often became warped, as the one in the Amazon did.
    I think it also mentioned some kind of treatment that can be done to the pianos at the manufacture time, to help strengthen them in humid climates.

  9. Oranges to tangerines, then? by fireboy1919 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    People want PIANOs that can produce a wide range of sounds. That's why synths exist. Here are some features on modern day keyboard that prove my point:
    weighted keys: so that it feels the same as a piano. You can't feel the hammers hitting the strings, you can only feel how hard it is to press the keys. Modern synths have this.
    touch sensitivity:Harder hit means more sound...like a piano.
    88 keys:There's no reason that a synth should have so many keys, since it is usually portable, and thre isn't a lot of synth-only music (meaning that the range could be dictated by the instrument). Unless, of course, its a replacement for the piano.

    This doesn't apply to all keyboards because all of these features are rather expensive. But most good keyboard players get their keyboards with all of these features. Saying they're not the same is like saying that a piano wasn't a replacement for the harpsichord (which could only play one volume).

    Interesting how we name our keyed instruments - based upon whatever feature they have that the previous instrument didn't. Pianos where originally called "forte-pianos," and synths...

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    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    1. Re:Oranges to tangerines, then? by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I'm a professional pianist and I can tell you that you're all wrong.

      • On a real piano, you don't "feel the hammers hitting the strings". There's an "escapement mechanism" that releases the hammer before it hits the strings. There's no mechanical linkage between key and hammer at the actual moment of impact. Inertia carries it there.
      • Harder hit doesn't mean more sound. FASTER hit does. This is how a concert pianist can play for hours without killing his hands and wrists. Want more sound? Lift your fingers higher so they press the keys faster.
      • A synth is not a piano. It's an instument--usually contolled by a keyboard--that can produce a wide range of sounds.
      I cannot perform on a fake piano. It has to be real. No "good keyboard player" has ever learned to play on anything but a real piano. At least none that I ever met.
  10. feedback by carlcmc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm sorry, but you are mistaken in saying that the feedback of hammers hitting the strings cannot be reproduced. While I might be healthcare, i also play classical music on the piano, and for 2500 you can get a digital piano that has as good if not better feedback as your standard uprights in the same price range. Granted a grand piano is better, but what percentage of people are able to afford a 15k to 20k grand piano?. A digital piano such as a korg for instance never requires tuning, has excellent feed back and record and play back. I suppose you may have been talking just about synths that have keys but no feed back, but i wanted to respond to the misconeption that you can't get great feed back with digital.

    1. Re:feedback by Gsus411 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I would love to see some of these digital pianos you speak of. I have played on just about every piano possible, from Steinway grands to no-name uprights from 100 years ago to the most elaborate digital pianos available. A good digital piano may have a better response than a cheap $700 dollar throwaway. But for the $2,500 you mention, you can get a decent upright with better response than any digital piano you can find for any price.

      My $0.02.....

  11. New sport: Extreme Philanthropy by Ooblek · · Score: 5, Funny
    A set of hearty do-gooders get this warm, tingly feeling when a bunch of savages want a grand piano of their very own in the middle of the Amazon. These heros set out with visions of a next renaissance in music as these villagers are left with a musical instrument and a desire to learn. Documenting their great struggle in taking this behemoth from the civilzed world to the uncivilized world. Overcoming obstacles like raging rivers and dense tropical jungles, they finally deliver this prize. They leave, intending to come back a few years later. In this time, they expect the musical capabilities of these primitives to mature beyond belief - much like leaving a batch of wine to ferment to perfection in an old oak barrel.

    So our intrepid travelers return and are greeted be the villagers that have apparently just been shopping at Target. Flip-flops, shorts, and even the occasional T-Shirt that has the phrase, "I'm a lion hunter. If you see me running, try to keep up," on the back.

    The cheap-clothing aside, the veteran piano-tuning-commando-squad makes the exhausting 8-mile trek through the jungle to finally visit the prize instrument and to taste the sweetness of the evolved musical talent that should have developed over these past years.

    What they found is that the piano that was donated has almost cracked in half due to the fact the generous donation turned out to be little more than someone deciding not to sell the thing for $5 at a garage sale. (They must have decided they didn't want to move the thing out the front door every Saturday for a month while trying to get rid of it.) The instrument itself was infested with insects and their eggs, probably due to the fact that they generally kept the piano in a storage shed until visitors with cameras decided to show up. This explains all the Target type clothes since it appears that they are really cannibals that would eat visitors without cameras and take their clothes.

    In the end, the savages did learn how to belt out a few Bach and Beetles tunes, but then just wanted a fricking Korg keyboard, "Like we asked for in the first place." I don't see why they didn't just ask for a PC and a net connection so they could just use Kazaa and download all the Bach and Beetles MP3s they wanted!

  12. Re:Not a hard choice by Greedo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was expecting an interesting read about how this tribe had taught themselves to play a piano, improvising melodies and chord progressions based on their indigenous musical heritage. Coming up with unorthodox techniques, etc..

    Instead, it's the story of a bunch of British folks playing Beatles songs with the villagers, who have been Catholicized and are wearing American t-shirts and plastic flip-flops.

    How sad. And mildly offensive.

    (Oh ... taking a piano into the jungle is interesting. Taking a Korg is dumb. IMHO.)

    --
    Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
  13. I have a piano and live in amazon, but i�m lucky.. by the+cobaltsixty · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in Belem, the largest city within the Amazon Rainforest, with two million inhabitants. For about nine years, i also played piano and almost became a classical pianist. But then i left in order to have more time to spend at the computer.

    There are two piano tuners in my city. One has serious hearing problems, which is weird. The other one looks weird, because hes not brazilian, but russian. But i heard hes a good tuner.

    Keeping a piano is a challenging task. The climate has much air humidity, the wood helps changing its sounds. Also, we have problems with the extreme heat... But anyway, thats not impossible.

    There were two piano factories in brazil, and the most popular, Essenfelder, got bankrupt. The remaing, Fritz Dobbert, still exists. There are in my city two music schools, Carlos Gomes and the Federal University of Para Music School (EMUFPA). I used to study at the later one. They still have a really beautiful Yamaha piano there. When they were about to buy, i've heart they had to make a poll to choose whether to buy a white or a wooden one. Thank god, the wooden is there.

    Disclaimer: I have nothing against people who think theyre trendy about white pianos, but sure Def Leppard making a Video with a white piano is a shame

  14. Re:In other news... by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Funny
    I find it funny when people complain about the rediculousness of low-tech firearms on a spaceship</quote>

    Low-tech or not, it'll kill ya, and dead is dead.

    Lets face it, we're still dependent upon the 7 "low-tech" discoveries/inventions of the Neanderthals:

    1. Fire
    2. Farming
    3. Art
    4. Weaponry
    5. Animal Husbandry
    6. Clothing
    7. vi and unix (well, religion, and holy wars in general)