Wi-Fi From The Sky

Makarand writes "Some companies think that the answer to providing ubiquitous broadband access is to have telecom gear float high in the sky. High-tech blimps, called Stratellites, could be used by ISPs to carry their telecom equipment as high as 13 miles, far above commercial air traffic and turbulent weather according to this article on ABC News. At this height the Stratellite could serve an area of around 300,000 sq miles. Subscribers will merely need to put a small antenna outside and get broadband. The Stratellites will be perfect spheres and carry all electronic equipment within the Kevlar fabric and will not have any external fins or gondolas attached. Companies are already developing Wi-Fi sytems that could operate over tens of miles and these systems could be used on these Stratellites."

Comments

High above airplanes?

[Brento]

Does that mean I'll be able to get an 802.11b signal in a plane? That would pretty much eradicate the problems of installing internet gear in each plane - just put a little antenna up to the window and boom, you're surfin'.

Great.

[xintegerx]

A lot of people will now be able to listen to free music anywhere, via internet radio.

There goes the RIAA. Also, this could cause us to lose our hearing of the sounds usually omitted from the tracks during MP3 encoding.

And what about radio waves everywhere? And people instant messsaging each other non-stop?

I know it's kind of scary and weird, but this future could all be possible in under five years. And once we get to wi-fi everywhere, there's no going back! And hackers will be able to DOS my toaster.

I for one, hope this development takes time :)

ABOVE commercial traffic?

[NeoSkandranon]

Okay, so you cant use WiFi on a commercial flight because it has a possibility of jamming the aircraft's comms and tracking. Wonder what, if anything, will be the consequence of flying through medium-high (it has to have a bit of juice to reach 13 miles through clouds and whatnot, right?) intensity WiFi transmissions?

Re:ABOVE commercial traffic?

[RaboKrabekian]

You can't use cell phones in flight not because it might interfere with the avionics of the airplane, but because it costs the cell phone companies too much money to have you hopping to a new tower every two seconds.

If cell phones were really dangerous in ANY way to an airplane in flight, do you think they'd be allowed?

Re:ABOVE commercial traffic?

[The FooMiester]

I thought the real reason cellphones were banned in airplanes was so the airlines could maintain their monopoly on air to ground communication via $20/minute phone service.

Re:ABOVE commercial traffic?

[Zeinfeld]

Okay, so you cant use WiFi on a commercial flight because it has a possibility of jamming the aircraft's comms and tracking. Wonder what, if anything, will be the consequence of flying through medium-high (it has to have a bit of juice to reach 13 miles through clouds and whatnot, right?) intensity WiFi transmissions?

Absolutely nothing. The interference issue is way overblown, particularly for WiFi which uses the same frequency as the microwave ovens that are used regularly on board aircraft without problems.

If there really was an issue with interference in aircraft the amount of stray electromagnetic radiation bouncing arround airports would have brought down plenty of planes already.

It is possible to measure an effect on certain navigation gear in certain circumstances. But don't think that the regulations about not using RF devices have anything to do with making you safer, like the airport security they are there to 1) make you feel safe and 2) make it easier and more convenient for the cabin crew to prepare the aircraft for landing.

Equally the complaints from the military about their radar have more to do with justifying a new round of apending on military boondogles than security. If a WiFi card can really take out US radar then hope that Saddam hasn't been reading slashdot or he might try to block US radar with a couple of hundred unshielded industrial microwave ovens... Remember that these complaints come from the same folk that are claiming SDI is ready for deployment on the basis of a string of failed tests and despite the fact that their own assesors believe that any country with the ability to build a ballistic missile has easily enough capability to build in countermeasures

68000ft

[maroberts]

I would have thought there is some air movement up there, and it actaully has to get through the turbulent layer in the first place, so I presume it has some means of propulsion for station keeping....

Re:68000ft

[MtViewGuy]

I think for proper stationkeeping of these communications balloons they're going to have to fly them even higher--as high as 75,000 feet.

There are two reasons for this: 1) the jet stream has strong winds even in the 60,000 feet range; and 2) some thunderstorms have cloudtops as high as 65,000 feet!

I'm gonna have to say it.

[xintegerx]

Forbes talked about their list of 85 world-changing ideas.

Wi-Fi is coming up, and that will be the biggest world-changing things ever in the future. Imagine always being connected to everybody else in the world who you'd want to be connected to. How screwed up is that?

Oh wait. Cell phones can do that. Damn. Oh well, it doesn't mean I'm going to let this post go waste! :) Why? Because Wi-Fi will do to cell phones what cable/dsl did to land-line dial-up. Man I was just imagining all levels of students using wi-fi tablets in school and that's kind of messed up....
!

As long as it doesn't cut into my bandwidth

[sonamchauhan]

It could be a decent solution to the last mile problem but...

[ From the article: ]
The other advantage of Sanswire's setup, says Molen, is that Stratellites will use a wireless connection scheme known as 802.11 or "WiFi."

I'm guessing the "advantage" is that they don't intend paying license fees for the 2.4GHz spectrum :). In that case, 4 or 5 competing Wifi-from-the-sky balloons (remember, each one has upto a 300,000 square mile range) could well make it impossible to setup a personal wireless LAN on the ground.

It's a good idea -- as long as they use their own (rented) portion of the spectrum, and leave the 2.4 GHz commons to us commoners.

Advanced Technologies Group

[madhippy]

ATG came up with a similar idea some time ago - doesn't look like they've got as far as a prototype yet tho - their design is a more usual blimp shape rather than spherical mind ...

ATG

Personally, I'd love one of their large Skycat's - imagine a beo.. I mean it'd make a great house ...

Don't fall for it!

[grub]

Note how it's made out of Kevlar? What else is made from Kevlar? Bullet proof vests!

The kind used in bullet proof vests used by the secret government's storm troopers!

The kind used in bullet proof vests worn by the secret government's storm troopers which protect their mind control equipment!

The kind used in bullet proof vests worn by the secret government's storm troopers which protect their mind control equipment as it floats 13 miles above the earth!

The kind used in bullet proof vests worn by the secret government's storm troopers which protect their mind control equipment as it floats 13 miles above the earth beaming their mind control rays into you!

/me adds another layer of tinfoil to his hat.

Yeah, birds are already standardized for IP

[jcrb]

Read the RFC and they have one with QoS as well

This could be very popular in the UK!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Area of the uk is about 244,000km. This is small compared to the radius that this sphrere in the sky could serve!

Considering BT's reluctance to ugrade rural exchanges for ADSL broadband (including mine, I have to get my broadband from Telewest), this could kick start true broadband Britain.

Just what we need!

[TeknoHog]

It could even DOUBLE our download capacity. So that we'll be able to read all the dupes on /..

Re:Hrmm Math doesn't seem right

[AndroidCat]

They use Pringles cans. BIG Pringles cans...

I understand how it works......

[jcrb]

If you look on the web site of the manufacturer you can find this picture where it is clear that those things on the side of the sphere are combination propeller/stearing vane modules.

BTW does anyone else think that the picture on their front page makes the thing look like the Death Star (tm) :)

Long range WiFi, Stationkeeping + Some more links

[StCredZero]

To make this viable, they will need Phased Array Wi-Fi as covered here earlier. This will increase their range to many miles. There is also a paper about stationkeeping for a group of such balloons.

Some more links on the story itself:

• 21st Century Airships
• Yahoo (German, Translated)
• www.telekom-presse.de (translated)

Re:Not good for gamers

[Hollins]

Where on earth do you get these numbers? If there is a distance-proportional latency, it should only be related to the speed of light, which is roughly 300,000 km/s. So the additional latency should only be 1/300,000 s for each km.

Re:How many times...

[Sacarino]

So, uh, what happens when they migrate south for the winter? You go back to dialup?

Never going to FLY..

[FirstOne]

Why not?.. you may ask..

You can't make them stationary..
Tie them to ground.. The tie down cable becomes an aviation hazard.
Thirteen (13) mile long cables of any strength are somewhat heavy.

Volume needed to lift ~10 pounds to 75,000 ft requires a balloon 30 to 40feet in diameter.

Let them float, they get blown around (world) by the jet streams. (Lots of surface area * 100 m/s winds).
Tendency to come down in unwanted places (Insurance companies nightmare).
(I.E. High tension power lines, Expressways, Planes in flight, Tall buildings, etc.)

Try to make them stationary under own power. Not!!
Bigger == More surface area to catch wind == More engine/more weight == Never going to happen!!

Re:How many times...

[Quixote]

Nice idea. And if you don't like the performance, you can just barbecue it. Gives a whole new meaning to "packet loss".

No, they'll float. It's all they need to do.

[Spamalamadingdong]

You can't make them stationary....
Let them float, they get blown around (world) by the jet streams. (Lots of surface area * 100 m/s winds).

Yes you can. The jet streams are phenomena of the troposphere. The stratosphere, where these things would float, is stratified (thus the name) and has little wind.

There was another company looking to piggy-back on the National Weather Service's twice-daily balloon sounding probes to provide cellular service in unserved areas. The latex balloons climb to extreme altitudes, and then often hang for 24 hours or more without moving much (according to the article) before bursting. If the relay balloons float at similar altitudes, they would require little power for stationkeeping.

Tie them to ground.. The tie down cable becomes an aviation hazard.

Big deal, you bar air traffic from the area. We may soon be doing the same to generate electricity, with tethers perhaps 3 miles long; check out gyromills for a jolt to your weltanschauüng.

Volume needed to lift ~10 pounds to 75,000 ft requires a balloon 30 to 40feet in diameter.

Have you looked at the balloons used to loft cosmic-ray, infrared and the cosmic-background radiation experiments lately? Boomerang flew at 120,000 feet, thus requiring a balloon several times the volume required to loft a payload to a mere 65,000 feet. There is a lot of established expertise, and while this can't be considered a trivial exercise it isn't going to require much new work.