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The Lik-Sang Saga Continues

The sage of Lik-Sang has continued with Dan Gillmor's recent visit to the region. He and Alex Kampl met and talked for a while. The comparasions are good ones - and ones that are clearly enough drawn that everyone should see the loss of their rights.

18 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. Licensing has gone too far. by altgrr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Everywhere we look, all we can see is licensing. Regardless of whether the product be a tangible item (such as a games console), or a service (your phone connection, a piece of software), there are license agreements telling you what you may and may not do with it.

    Is there going to come a point where we will not actually own anything, merely own a license to use it? Do we really want to owe our souls to the capitalist companies we work for?

    Perhaps I'm exaggerating here, but I think it's a future that, currently, is coming for us, and one that I certainly don't want to live in.

    --


    Like car accidents, most hardware problems are due to driver error.
    1. Re:Licensing has gone too far. by sql*kitten · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Is there going to come a point where we will not actually own anything, merely own a license to use it? Do we really want to owe our souls to the capitalist companies we work for?

      I don't see how you get from the first sentence to the second, but that's beside the point for now.

      Owning a license is better than owning the real thing, if it's done properly. Think about it. If you lose your bank card, does that mean you've also lost the money in your account? No, because your account is effectively your license, so its physical representation, the card, can easily be replaced.

      If you buy a license to a piece of music, then wouldn't it be great if you could trade in your cassette or LP for a SACD or DVD-Audio for just the cost of duplicating the media? Or if you owned a game for PC, you could also get a Mac version for a negligible charge, because what you own is not the CD it came on, but the right to play the game? That's how licensing could and should work.

    2. Re:Licensing has gone too far. by surprise_audit · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Sadly, though, that will never happen as long as vendors continue to get away with selling you the same license over and over again so that you can access the product on different media.

      It would indeed be great to buy (the right to watch) a movie on a DVD, and for little or no extra cost, be able to copy it to video tape to watch elsewhere in the house. For such a future to exist, all your entertainment media systems would have to talk to each other to determine that any given "license" wasn't being used in more places in your house than you have licenses for.

      Better yet, instead of multiple DVD, VCR and CD players around the house, have a central server that "checks out" a movie to the living room TV and won't allow it to play in the bedroom until it finishes, or stops, in the living room.

  2. money? by in_ur_face · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "The issue is front and center in an obscure but important legal battle under way in Hong Kong. The three major video-game console makers -- Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft -- have used the courts against a seller of hardware modification chips, often called ``mod chips,'' that give the boxes more capabilities than the makers allow when sold off the shelf."

    I wonder how the amount of money spent on legal fees compares to the $$ lost from just allowing mod chips? Is this just a principle thing?

    1. Re:money? by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "I wonder how the amount of money spent on legal fees compares to the $$ lost from just allowing mod chips? Is this just a principle thing?"

      They're pretty much forced to enforce their rights, or risk losing them. If Nintendo were to find that 1 million games shipped and 10 million people have a copy, they wouldn't be able to sue anybody if they just allowed it to happen.

      I don't see why they're so afraid, though. The PC has no 'mod chips' to speak of. Yet, the game market on the PC isn't dying due to piracy. It's dying due to lack of interesting games.

      One thing that could push me towards modding a GameCube (assuming that is possible, no idea if it is or not) so that I can play downloaded games is that I can't find game demos anywhere for the system. PS2 and XBOX have this, but Nintendon't.

      I'd find modding the PS2 or the XBOX to be quite worthless as long as I had demos of games to try out.

  3. Re:Software by altgrr · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Have they even evaluated just doing worldwide releases and saving the cash? I mean really, the days before macromedia didn't kill off the movie industry, and the easily available radio shack macromedia disabler didn't kill em off either.

    The fact of the matter is, as long as there is a disabling technology (Macrovision et al), there will be a re-enabling technology (Macrovision Disabler) which renders this useful again.

    The reason why there is so much money in piracy is because the entertainment industry is creating opportunities for piracy to make money. If DVDs weren't (a) encrypted, (b) so expensive, then there wouldn't be so much of a call for ways round the problem, and these semi-legal* systems wouldn't have to be made.

    *semi-legal: Illegality under US law is constantly under doubt; such actions in other countries are often legal.
    --


    Like car accidents, most hardware problems are due to driver error.
  4. Make the Xbox mods *clearly* for Linux use by Morgaine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A lot of these prosecutions seem to hinge on a modification being marketed in a fashion that leaves its intended purpose open to interpretation.

    While lawyers will of course always oil the wheels of litigatation regardless of commonsense, morality, ethics, or the laws of physics, one should at least make it a little bit harder for them wherever possible.

    For example, in the case of the Xbox mod chip, if a company created and marketed a device with the single and sole purpose of allowing Linux to be booted natively on powerup, and supported this purpose with Xbox Linux distros on its website plus all the relevant FAQs, and with extra features in the bootstrap making the purpose plain (eg. kernel boot parameter storage) as well as displaying a prominent intended-use disclaimer, this would make litigating against the company significantly harder than at present.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
    1. Re:Make the Xbox mods *clearly* for Linux use by IanA · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No one would make a significant profit on a modchip designed only for using Linux.

      95%, at least, of modchips are used for backing up games/getting around regional protection/playing warez copies, and a defense for that type of usage (esp. warez) would not be feasible imho.

    2. Re:Make the Xbox mods *clearly* for Linux use by stubear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't matter how it's marketed, it only matters how it's used. If the presecution can show that its' primary use is STILL warez then it can be deemed illegal. Ever wonder why you can't buy those handy lock jimmys the cops use? They can be marketed as an alternative method fo ropening your car when you have a brain fart and lock the keys inside it. They could also, and most likely will be, used mainly for stealing cars, hence their not being made avialable on the open market.

    3. Re:Make the Xbox mods *clearly* for Linux use by Enigma2175 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Ever wonder why you can't buy those handy lock jimmys the cops use? They can be marketed as an alternative method fo ropening your car when you have a brain fart and lock the keys inside it. They could also, and most likely will be, used mainly for stealing cars, hence their not being made avialable on the open market.

      Ever wonder why people on /. just make shit up with no substantiation? There are multiple non-infringing uses for lockpicks, "Slim Jims" and the like. It certainly is not just the police who can own or use them. For example, you can buy one right here, long with other lock-defeating devices. It is not illegal to own lockpicks or a Slim Jim, it is just illegal to use them to aid in the commission of a crime such as burglary. Just like it should not be illegal to sell modchips, it should only be illegal to use if you are using it to play pirated games. There are substantial non-infringing uses, I hope the courts see that and allow the sale of the chips to continue.

      --

      Enigma

  5. The root cause by tanveer1979 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The root cause of such difference in other products and electronic items is that the lawmakers tend to see the internet/electronics/software as a different domain altogether. We have not so much advanced in the digital age that it comes naturally to us. Think, the senaters read their snail mail, but email is left unread.

    The article talks compares this to auto makers authorizing repair only at specific places. Such a practice will be shot down immediately. But in case of the e-world, the big cartels have hyped this up as a specific domain where rules are different. And the law makers are also beginning to see this as such. Unless we break this mindset of the e-world as something different and obscure such practices will go unnoticed. This will keep happening until the common man, the silent majority does not start using infotech in daily life. For example if such a practice came in a budget automobile, there would be an outcry, because many many people use it, but in case of DVD, a small percentage of the users will ever go to Europe to Buy DVDs. We need to go a long way.. and going by the incresing restrictions on internet.. this will take a long time. No matter how hard the detracters try, this revolution will come and nobody can do anything about it :)

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
  6. The car analogy by shoppa · · Score: 5, Informative

    The car analogy at the beginning of the story is more true than the writer knows. Car manufacturers did attempt to lock car buyers into extra-pricey dealer service, and the US Congress did react by passing the Magnusson-Moss act. Not only did this "unlock the hood", it also fixed things so that you wouldn't violate the warranty just by doing your own oil change.

  7. Re:Their 'rights'? by lvdrproject · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Perhaps you're not quite as familiar with games as you go on. Ignoring the whole piracy issue for the moment, cheat devices have many uses beyond just "i'm going to buy/rent this game so i can beat it in 5 minutes and impress my friends". Firstly, there are some of us (me included) who purchase LEGITIMATE Japanese hardware/software. I, for instance, purchased a Sony PocketStation a year or so ago. Many of the games that featured PocketStation support in Japan (a certain Street Fighter game, Alpha 3, i think, being the most popular example) had that support removed, or should i say hidden, from the American retail version. How did i (and others living in America) get to play Street Fighter on their PocketStation? We used a GameShark to enable the feature. What was the disrespect in this case was not our use of the GameShark, but rather the American team that fucked with the original Japanese design. This "disrespect" can be seen in hundreds upon hundreds of Japanese games, where the American translaters/localisers/what-have-you have come in and stripped the games of their original meaning and/or features. But that's another point entirely.

    The Japanese software/hardware thing aside, there are other uses for cheat devices. Personally, when i buy a game (my favourite genre being RPGs), i play it as a challenge, an interactive story that desires my hand in completing it. However, once i've beaten the game, and got the satisfaction of completing it myself, i may want to play it again. When i play Final Fantasy VIII for the six hundredth time, am i playing it to relive the billion annoying random battles that i had to spend hours on defeating insignificant enemies? No, i'm playing it to relive the story. Using a cheat device here to maybe boost my attack strength, or give me all the spells, or give me quick level gain, is not disrespecting the developers. I paid my money, i got the satisfaction of beating it once. Now i want to relive the story, and i don't want to be bothered by the less-than-stellar parts of the game.

    Besides that. This isn't the way i would do it it, but if someone felt so inclined to purchase a $60 video game and cheat the whole way through, fine. Let them. They paid 60 fucking dollars for it. Maybe the people that are ultimately "behind" the game will object, saying that that's not what it was intended for... but to Nintendo, Sony, Square, Sega, etc., IT'S JUST ANOTHER 60 DOLLARS.

    As for piracy... there's two sides to this. Mod chips != piracy. More often than not, they do, yes. But this is like the whole RIAA thing and disabling CDs on computers and all that jazz. Just because some people rip the CDs that they buy and distribute them to millions of people doesn't mean the legit people like me, who rip their music to play on their PC because they don't feel like swapping through hundreds of CDs, should have to pay for that. The same goes for pirating. Just because there's a bunch of pirates out there ripping off Sony for their games doesn't mean i shouldn't be allowed to buy an import game and play it in my modded PlayStation. The money goes back to Sony anyway, why does it matter?

    You've picked up some misconceptions about mod chips, ace. Not everybody is a bad guy.

    :Lav

  8. More than pirate gear by Cpt_Kirks · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lik-Sang has more than mod chips, GBA dev kits and such. They also sell the afterburner internal light for the the GBA and the excellent Gamepark GP32. This little handheld game has a much bigger screen than the GBA, has a 113Mhz ARM 7 CPU and uses SMC cards instead of cartridges.

    Yes, a Linux port is under way. Anybody know of an existing Linux SMC driver?

  9. Re:Double standards? by aronc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, it's rather easy. In one case you are being granted rights that you otherwise wouldn't have. That's the GPL. It's like saying I'll give you free reign in my house if you promise to clean up after yourself. You come in and don't clean I have the right to bitch.

    The other case has companies trying to artificially remove rights that you already have under current law, that being the right to use something you've purchased however you see fit. That includes breaking out the soldier and a flash-rom you bought and having fun.

    To summerise - I give you extra rights with some conditions and you break them == justified bitching. You try to take away rights I already have == justified bitching.

    --

    jello.
    aka aron.
  10. That IS how it could and should work... by sean.peters · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... but it doesn't. Companies have used their power over the legislative process to get the best of all worlds... for them. So now we can neither (legally) copy our own software/music NOR get the kind of backup and exchange service you mention.

    So I think I can understand why the original poster was a little disgusted with licensing.

    Sean

  11. Car analogy extended: nationality of passengers by Morgaine · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The analogy given in the article of a car manufacturer dictating where the car may be repaired is fairly good, but maybe this analogy would be even better.

    The primary purpose of a DVD player or a DVD/CD-based games console is to play media. The primary purpose of a car is to transport passengers.

    Consider then the uproar that would be caused if a US car manufacturer only allowed US nationals to be transported in its cars, only Japanese nationals in Japanese-manufactured cars, and so on. That is the direct counterpart to DVD and game regionalization. It's wrong, regardless of the economic reasoning behind it.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
  12. Leave the Sage of Lik-Sang alone!!! by revery · · Score: 4, Funny

    The sage of Lik-Sang has continued with Dan Gillmor's recent visit to the region.

    This has gone too far!! I have never before heard of the sage of Lik-Sang, but I am sure he is a member of a venerable monastic order. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo should stick to the world of electronics and leave the sage alone.

    Ooh, unless this is about the herb. Then I don't care what they do.
    *Sigh* I'm gonna have to read the article, aren't I....