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H2O/IP
AltImage writes "This interesting project uses water as an organic network between two computers. It analyzes the color of each pixel and 'prints' out pulses to the electronically controlled water valve - a different pulse pattern depending on the color of the pixel on screen."
damnit.
so how long before i can use this to cool my computer and send the data?
This is a verry cool idea, But I can't help but think about how enviroment specific this would need.
The signal seems like it would be way too fragile, a little movement could screw it up.
Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
Now we have to worry about dumb windows users mistakingly drinking their data.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
This sounds about as funny as RFC 1149 IP over Pigeon
This seems interesting as a technology on itself. Like for scientific purposes.
But as a Real Life application ?
Why would we need such new and complicated technologies if the current ones just work fine ?
I agree, new technologies might be faster and/ord better in the future, so it's defenetly worth looking into it some more.
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To reduce costs, the development of this cool technology should be moved to India!
There is if you don't clean it. My fish can attest to that.
If this pans out, soon we'll be able to Surf the 'net!
This simply uses water as the medium instead of: fiber, wire, or air. Most likely, I would conclude that solid water is just too dynamic of a material to get anything useful out of it. For example, this display uses water drops, which are huge compared to electrons. Now, using electricity over water would be a little more interesting, but then it REALLY just becomes another medium for fiber wires. And if you want to get really creative, you can say that since there is so much matter in one drop of water, you can automagically make use of this inherent fact to send more data...then I say bah....because you can inherently make use of the quantum properties of electrons to get more out of them, and this is where we are REALLY going towards.
Thanks for contributing to the entropy of this planet you artist!
So: Just art...but good art. Well done!
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This is cool, but a system employing a cycling loop of water would be cooler... after all water temperature could be used as an encoding medium, and peltier devices (heat pumps) to control the temperature.
:)
Turbulence could be a problem, but challenges is what's it's all about, right?
.: Max Romantschuk
..a webserver connected via on of these. You could get your page slashdotted and boil water for coffee at the same time!
Forgive me, but it's 2am, so one of my reactions to the article included "oooh, pictures."
Using organic materials for data seemed to be perfect with cybernetics and other cyborg-esque technology; however, this idea is far from it. It's more closer, it seems, to Morse code - it apparently uses differing amounts and timings of water droplets to signify the color of the particular pixel.
In addition, the packets are supported by gravity; hard to imagine how this could be done in a horizontal setting - I'm sure most of you know how fluids and pressure work. (Difficult to pass packets of water horizontally)
So, anyone have good uses for this 'protocol'?
Damn them! They are fucking up organic chemistry! Impeach Bush!
There was another link I can't find anymore to a lab moving microscopic drops of water around on a sillicon substrate really fast. The target apps are in biochemistry, but iirc the design used the liquid to do some logic, also.
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
Ok I'm stopping there...
:/
Really what could this do to further our technological needs? Water is great for cooling down computers, but fundimentally you do NOT want the water to be in your computers...
Could be a shockign experiance.
Granted you could use temperature change, speed of the water, and the state to transmit data, but you have the same ability with binary code
which already has a standard as well...
Imagine the standards they'd use for water...
the fluid standards (tFS for short)
the Solid standard (tSS)
and finally the vapor standard (tVS)
which could lead to other problems as well...
For instance what to do with the water if you happen to need to shut down your system
Drink it?
(note sarcasm)
Its really a
Come on now.. you can call it all the fancy shmancy names you like but that what it is eh?
Cant fool us!
-- If at first you don't succeed, lie!
Water uses YOU as an organic network between two computers.
I put a contraption like this under my leaky kitchen tap and got...
HELP! I'M BEING HELD PRISONER AT THE RESERVOIR!
I keep telling myself it's just the water company messing with our heads, but...
"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them." -- George H. W. Bush
... and all its applications with packet networking, I presume we will be calling the next tsunami a waterwall? :)
This is reminiscent of an idea used in the "first computer" developed in the book Cryptonomicon. The RAM is a series of tubes holding mercury, which store values based upon waves introduced into the tubes which closed electical circuits (if I remember rightly). It'd be cool to see one actually working ;-)
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
This is amazing! Just look at that picture quality! It claims to be 2 bit, but I only see three colors. Can I buy one and sue for a refunt?
Would this still be "/. worthy" if it transmitted 1280x1024 true color X sessions? Or only if a beowulf cluster was implemented through this?
Serious: This is a neat "geek" project but nothing spectacular. Would the height difference be needed if we closed off the system so that pressure waves could transfer?
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Seems to me, water was an uncreative choice for a creative project. Why not:
Wine - An object lesson in classy networking.
Milk - Don't have a cow, but your MOO just got creamed.
Diesel - Oh, you knew they were going to get into high tech somehow.
Coffee - Finally the name "Java" makes sense!
Antifreeze - Hey, it just might work!
Urine - For something that has pissed you off so much over the years
Machines take me by surprise with great frequency. -A. Turing
I pee after [I drink a nice, refreshing quart of]H20.
... a few years back during a LAAAATE night hacking session on a device driver for some hardware, I decided I'd had enough and needed to do something fun.
... and I got a few odd looks from a co-worker as I cleaned up, chuckling to myself, but hey...
I unglued myself from the swetty membrane that had formed between the edges of my ass and the chair, delved deep into foggy memory banks for details on how to move my arms and legs, got up and robo'ed to the kitchen with curled fingers to make pasta. It was a LOOONG code session, damn.
Halfway back, I got the idea to use noodles to connect the device I was working on to my PC, just for fun. Easy enough to do: the serial line from my debugger to the outboard gear was just three wires.
Some avid hacking with duct-tape, judicious use of PCB-posts, and 10 minutes later, I had things working!! I could talk to my device over the soggy noodle!
So funny, sending commands over pasta!
Okay, I went home after that. It didn't work so well the next day, when the pasta had dried up and stuck to the edges of the PCB
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
That should be IP/H2O as in this case IP is running over the H2O technology, as with TCP/IP where TCP runs over IP.
so va lairy et AL, is now the "keeper" of the o-s sacred/secret kodes?
so, if somebody gives lairy money, he'll see to IT that your work belongs to them? sounds fishy?
so, if you fall out of terms with lairy's guise, his kodemonger(tm) system kicks in, & you're out?
sounds like some other failed dictatorship. we've seen these types of "relationships" before. be careful.
banner ads, sheesh.
This technique can be used to convert the movements/vibrations made by fish into some kind of visual form: and what might be the purpose? Art... beauty... abstract communication ??
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
It's the closest some geeks will get to water this year... :)
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Am I just confused, or wouldn't this be more appropriately titles IP/H2O?
Alan
First I cant vouch for.. but definately it will be your last after you get modded to hell and back, and before you go for the ride.. dont forget to turn of that TAP, you dont want ATARI 2600 images travelling around your house.. do you ;-) ?
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
water plus iodine phosphide is extremely explosive.
;-P
careful, carnivore is watching.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
...as the RFC for avian carrier IP! ;)
-psy
Wouldn't that that forever? A 10 meter drop would take approximately one second. Since several drops are needed for one byte it will take 8 seconds for one byte to be send over. If they do not use TCP/IP and just send over a RAW 320 x 256 picture (MCGA) they would have to wait : 655360 seconds. This will be: 7 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes and 40 seconds...
maybe we could avoid networks shutdowns at school due to "sorry, the cables are in the cave..."
Except that I wanted to use actual ping-pong balls. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
Shouldn't the title be IP/H20 ?
If someone says it's art, then I gauss it is.
It's without a doubt poor engineering. Inefficient and error prone.
If a hydro-exictric,mechanical means were to be used to do TCP/IP, and you chose not to conduct the electrical signal through what would probably be non-pure, highly conductive water, I would be more inclined to use water pressure to do the job rather than drops of water.
But then that's me and I never understood the art of Yoko Ono.
... would be especially useful for keeping WANs up and running in nordic country winters eh?... and besides it tastes soo yummy...
- you are sofa king weed todd did
H20/IP functions in a similar way as TCP/IP but focuses on the inherent viscous properties of water that are not present in traditional packet networks.
So a Token Ring system done this way would be a viscous circle?
You all know what kind of pictures will be sent in real world conditions.
...does the guy get bigger pipes?
ba-dum-ching!
Uhh...Professor, I don't have my assignment because my dog drank it...
****--- A fortune cookie once told me the meaning of life...so I ate it. ---****
So if water is the media for tcp/ip, flushing the toilet would be considered a DoS attack? I imagine flushing while someone else is showering would be a DDoS, hence the screams...
With 1 bit you can represent 2 values.
With 2 bits you can represent 4 values.
You need 2 bits to represent 3 values.
I don't see what the big deal is here. They're using water instead on electrons..whoopie. The same effect could be made using a small child as the data carrier.
A kid stands beside the PC. The Computer analyzes a picture, converts it to 16x16, blares out '2!', the kid runs downstairs, presses the number on a keyboard, runs back upstairs, the computer blares '0!', kid runs downstairs, presses number, etc etc etc. Voila! Greyscale image in the downstairs monitor.
Look, an organic network!
D
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Unfortunately you can only send data one way--downstream.
"You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8
I dont know what artists you know, but coding a rudimentary delivery mechanism for a trans and protocol out of water drops doesn't sound very 'arty'. Just nerdy, but in a good way. Lots of interesting discoveries happen when people are just noodling around.
Somebody above pointed out that this is the branch of science known as 'fluidics', and the equipment he used he may have gotten from any number of companies that produce fluidics instruments.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Scientists Discover Organic Material in Snack Food.
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
So I guess my cunning plan didn't work then..?
Damn... ;o)
I married Miss Right. I just didn't know her first name was 'Always.'
This guy had a nice idea, fine, I'll give him that much. Yet it sounds to me like he doesn't know very much about what he's talking about. Water is NOT organic. Organic, as in organic chemistry, deals with the chemistry of carbon compounds. There is no C in H20. Think about it. This is very nice, and is as limited as it is nice. Kudos, but don't hold your breath.
I read the headline and thought IP = intellectual property - Jesus Tapdancing Christ! They're patenting water??? This project sounds cool.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
Wasn't this a joke in Red Herring a few years back?
yeah, but maybe this guy lives in Soviet Russia?
The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
Last year, Red Herring reported a fascinating tale of using the water pipes of the Netherlands as an IP medium. Of course, this was an elaborate April Fool's joke....
Life really does imitate art.
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Unless this protocol facilitates communication between networks it is nothing like IP. This is as flat as a topology gets. How would you route packets on this medium anyway? A complex set of valves?
Look into "nickel wire" delay line "memory"...
I once took apart an old (early 1970s) desk calculator (to this day I wish I hadn't), which used discrete transistor logic for the ALU and nixie tubes for the display (woot!). As I was taking it apart, there was one strange item that I didn't recognise (from my then limited electronics knowlege) - a silver box, about 3 inches on a side, and about an inch tall, with four wire coming out of it.
Being the idiot that I was, I wanted to know what was inside the box (it was sealed. A hammer, a screwdriver and some plier opened it up - and inside was a coiled wire (about three turns), and was connected at each end to what (I later learned) were piezo transducers.
This coil of wire in the box (not sure if the box was sealed for dust protection, or if there was a slight vacuum or something) acted as the "memory" function for the calculator, using a serial style pulse train over the wire to store the numbers.
Yeah, I got to find out how it worked, but I will never forgive myself for taking it apart...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
If it doesn't pan out, and gets a little "hot" from all the hype... it evaporates into vaporware ;-)
I just couldn't resist saying that!
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Now, if THAT isn't a headline to draw out the bad jokes in THIS crowd, I'll eat my hat!
I have no tag line
Hmm, sorry, but i still view it as art.
Why? Because crap like this has already been done looonnng ago.
Take for example the rat and cheese computer. Thats like a decade old if not way more.
Or The 2 RFC's on IP over avians (birds) as the medium.
Moreover, as I said, he's simply using water in its solid form which, due to its size, is so innefficient relative to the minute size of the electron (something that we already harness quite well). Next, if you acknowledge the above argument, I reasoned that one might want to argue that to really make use out of this water as a new medium, you're going to have to look elsewhere than to its size (for communicating more information (or laying the foundations for research to do so) because smaller size = more information. Namely, you might have to look at its physicaly properties as huge bunch of matter. Well, the artist even says that he looks at surface tension, pressure....A) i highly doubt this is more than his own marketing hype. B) I've seen scientists struggle with the intracies of fluid dynamics for 40 years and they still have that much more time to go. I don't see this artist drawing, or citing ANY research on water dynamics. So, I concluded that there already is another front in science that takes something big that is composed of many parts like a water droplet, and analyzes it for its internal state, in order to make use of more information. Namely, pretend the electron is this big water droplet, and the analysis is quantum analysis, something that is well underway.
Finally, nearly EVERY material at one time or another has been tested for its information carrying capacity. Thats all some electrical engineers/physicists do. And this includes water.
Electrons are just so much faster than anything that water can offer. And in my first post, I already discussed that water has been tried as a medium for electrons, its just that containing this water is less feasible than simple wire/fiber/air.
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It's rather dissapointing what the world seems to have come to.
Rather than look at a concept as an interesting idea, vision or technology, (as some people have regarding the topic) the majority of responses are poor attempts at witticism, declarations about the passe nature of the concept or a casual derision of any achievement followed by an audacious expression of hot air about how they could have done better.
Perhaps a medium that allows an individual to express their opinions to such a large group of people needs to be licensed based on a system of IQ and decorum. Probably myself included.
From a momentary snapshot on humanity's greatest communicative achievement, the future doesn't look so bright for our potential global society, nor for us as a species. This is even more disturbing coming from 'geeks' who are the supposed intelligentia of the new Millenia. To that end i'd like to express my dissapointment in the human race as a whole and go about my misanthopy in silence.
To those people who expressed interest in the concept: I'd be interested in finding out if this is a hoax or a joke like RFC2549, and if not whether the inventor plans to register an RFC for OSI interoperability. The rest of Jonah's (i presume; the inventor) projects are awesome like Common Reference point, SpeakerPhone and especially Tele-TV. Given the design of his site i think that he is displaying his projects as a resume and not in a format that allows others to duplicate or contribute to his work, which is frustrating but given the attitude to one project in this forum alone i'm not surprised.
Comments and suggestions of a positive nature welcome.
The `loner' may be respected, but he is always resented by his colleagues,
for he seems to be passing a critical judgment on them, when he may be
simply making a limiting statement about himself.
-- Sidney Harris
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