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Video Storage And Hard Drive Manufacturers

Posted by timothy on from the haitch-dee-tee-vee dept.

IrateSurf writes "A new column posted over at the Storage Supersite questions whether or not PVRs (Personal Video Recorders) are good for the hard drive industry. It's interesting, considering topics like whether the noise of a hard drive is worse than a VCR. The discussion is a response to an earlier column talking about the bad market for hard drive makers."

13 of 253 comments (clear)

  1. If noise is an issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It will lead to some manufacturer making quiet drives rather than the biggest and fastest possible. That's capitalism.

  2. People Hasn't Embrace The Technology Yet by robbyjo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    IMHO, people is currently not savvy enough to embrace digital videos yet. It will need some time. When the market is mature (and good enough), people will definitely jump into digital video bandwagon. Only then big HDs will have it big share AND all the evils imposed by MPAA will be contended.

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    Error 500: Internal sig error
  3. Sound proofing by div_2n · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the sound does become a problem, how about adding a little sound proof (dampening) enclosure around it?

    Just a thought.

  4. -1 Flamebait by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wow, talk about a flamebait article:

    "I do a fair amount of time-shifting now, using two S-VHS decks--a PVR would free me from the purchase of tapes and periodic cleaning," Jeff Carlson said. "But a PVR only duplicates the functions of a VCR; it doesn't provide any truly new-and-exciting, can't-live-without-it functions. "

    Only duplicates the functions of a VCR?

    - Random access to content
    - Pause live TV
    - Program it to tape a show instead of chunk of time on a particular channel
    - Commercial Skip
    - Dump it to your computer (more valuable than it'd seem)

    I don't think this guy was doing anything BUT looking for negatives about these things. He finds them noisy?

    Anyway, this guy doesn't really know what he's talking about. I think he's in the mode of "Well I can live without it if I just work a little harder". That's not a valid point or an educated opinion, it's a closed mind.

    1. Re:-1 Flamebait by AxelTorvalds · · Score: 5, Insightful
      People like him use VCRPlus numbers. They get them off of their digital cable or out of the TV guide or the tv guide channel they plug them in and then they do the rewind shuffle and remember counters. I've seen them do it. They are very similar, in a perverse way, to high end audiophiles who insist that nothing will ever perform as well as tubes and direct-drive turn tables. You can't argue with them, they are beyond reason and they've made their minds up regardless of continued innovation and fact. (You know the ones that think hiss and crackle add the "warmth," there are real audiophiles out there but there are also a fair number of cranks who are just luddites with money) There is something to be said for sticking with what works and enjoying it but many of us have to press onward and try to improve, even if we fall short.

      I spent close to 2 years developing a PVR at my ex company. I did the platform work. (GO LINUX!) Accoustics is everything, cheaper processor to get away from fans and fluidic barings in drives are the norm. I had a maxtor drive that I couldn't tell if it was on, seriously, dead on silent all of the time. Nothing sucks more than listening to the grinding noise when a PVR disk starts to "get tired" you can hear it through walls, at one point I didn't sleep for about a week because I couldn't not hear it. It's also a very minimal problem that is getting better and better, a good new PVR is probably more quite than a VCR.

      His points are valid. Nobody needs a PVR, until they see one in action. Nobody watches "that much TV" and then they see one and they're sold.

      Put a DVD player in them (been done, failed, it'll get done again) and you've got a single point of access to the digital TV experience. Explain it to a layperson who likes to not watch a lot of TV and it's a gadget. At my ex-company there were tons of people who didn't understand the PVR products until they saw them. His point about saving the industry is valid also, drives are already primarily being used for media. I've got a 600GB system and I can't even dent it with my "data," start putting movies, pictures and MP3s on it and I can fill it up.

      If you look at the health of Tivo and replay as companies and you know how easy it is to build a PVR (the code is simple, with digital TV, it's really pretty simple, it's moslty an excercise in cost reduction engineering) I kind of expect that PVRs may die and then come back in more favorable economic times. Tivo looks like they are getting traction and brand recog. but I have a hard time believing that Sony and Matsushita can't do it better and more cheaply if they choose to. I think that if a couple of Japanese companies put their minds to it they could simply wipe out Tivo and replay; they are hurting as it is and since the Japs aren't playing ball I'm guessing that nobody has figured out how to sell it to the masses and that's the bigger problem.

  5. tv in the bedroom by tzanger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This guy's pissing and moaning about his PVR in his bedroom. For fuck sakes, get the TV the hell out of there. What are you, in college or something? The bedroom's for sleeping and for fucking and quiet discussions with a loved one. It's not somewhere to have a TV or a telephone or even a laptop or PDA.

    Christ. I'm a geek and all but even I don't need to have the television or computer in every room of the house.

  6. Re:New and exciting features by Zathrus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pausing and rewinding live TV is good example

    Whatever you want to make yourself believe.

    Is pausing/rewinding/ff'ing TV going to be the saving grace of mankind? Of course not. Is it a damn useful thing for watching TV? Yup.

    Frankly, being able to rehear that line I missed is a nice advantage. With a single press of a button, instead of the hopeless attempts of doing the same thing with a VCR. Of course, you could argue that that's irrelevant with live TV because any shows you actually care to watch are being taped anyway. And I'd agree with you.

    But what about the news or the weather? Sure, they'll repeat, or you can go get them off the net, but if you're watching TV already then going to the computer is a disconnect and an inconvienence. If you're watching TV, why on earth should you have to wait 15-30 minutes for the story to repeat if you've got rewind capability?

    Of course, you don't have the ability to pause live TV. Like so much else with PVRs, it's a situation where you don't get it until you've got it.

    But I presume that instead of grokking this you'll just continue snarky comments pretending that you're somehow superior to everyone else. Enjoy.

  7. Re:Never mind the PVRs by dreadlocks · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ---But the PVR is too much of a tech toy right now. I can't see grandma using one day to day to record her soap opera. Remember, millions of people out ther can't get rid of the blinbking 12:00 thing in their VCRs to save their lives.---

    the PVR is still a misunderstood toy now. Unfortunately, people still don't get it.

    When they were clearing out the showstoppers I found one for $80 after some rebate. I was talking to my office mate across the hall about how cool they were, because he was constantly whining about missed shows (forgot to put the tape in etc). I offered to pick it up for him (to be paid back of course), but he declined. He then went and bought another VCR to juggle more tapes. I'm sorry, but at $80 (no activation), you gotta be afraid of new technology or something to avoid a deal like that! Well, it went to my brother who appreciates it.

    My mother 65 and father 83 (grandparents!!) have one and love it. It was only after they saw it being used at my brother's house and how it caputured shows that they decided they had to have one. They really can be easier than a VCR to program.

    Other than the setup (which I handled over the phone) they have not had any issues with it.

    The PVR manufacturers should push them hard and offer a 30 day money back risk free sort of deal also. Getting them in the door is the hard part, but once they are in a home more tend to follow. I bet the growth of the industry is like the home PC market, people buying second and third machines with a small to moderate percentage being first time owners. I have 2 PVRs and 2 computers (well, I'm one data point at least)

  8. Please educate yourself by tswinzig · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In reality what I really want IS just a glorified VCR.

    That's cool... that's what TiVo is, and more if you want it.

    I don't want to have to pay monthly fees for their service.

    Pay the lifetime fee one time, then. The service fee is basically a way to subsidize the device. You could either buy a cheap device and the monthly service, or the more expensive device (i.e. paying the lifetime fee along with the TiVo cost).

    I don't want to record every instance of "Whose Line..." available - I really only want the one that's on once a week at a particular time.

    You can do that with TiVo. Or better yet, you can tell it to record only new episodes of your show, and keep only X number of episodes (in your example, 1 episode). If they shift the time from 10pm to 11pm, TiVo knows it, your VCR doesn't.

    I don't want TiVo (or ReplayTV, or whoever) to tell my machine to occasionally record things I haven't asked for, whether its because of their attempts at marketing or a lame attempt at "profiling" my viewing habits.

    So turn that feature off. It doesn't hurt anything to leave it on, though. It only uses up free space, and if you need space for a show you're recording, it automatically deletes the auto-recorded shows to free up space. They never interfere, and you just might find some new shows you like (I did).

    I don't want these companies using my viewing habits for their gain, even if its anonymous and aggregate.

    So turn that off. I don't see the harm, but if you really are that anal, turn that off.

    But the PVR manufacturers seem hell-bent on only letting you use their device if you pay their monthly fee for their "service".

    Until this is addressed, I'll just keep rotating tapes in my VCR.

    Your loss... just try to keep the FUD to a minimum in the future, please.

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    "And like that ... he's gone."
  9. What about HD warranties? by SoSueMe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since most HD makers have seriously reduced their warranties,will this affect the warranties on these consumer devices?
    Currently, most HD only have a 1 yr warranty.
    Will this mean a PVR is only good for that long?

  10. The PVR illusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No amount of gadgets can make television a quality information source. Such things may provide the illusion of control but when all is said and done, you remain submissive to the capricious whims of the content providers.

    Is that good enough for you?

  11. Re:Never mind the PVRs by galaxy300 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why not? How else is it supposed to work? Besides, with a PVR, you're not going to channel surf any more, so who cares how it changes channels?

    My Tivo is built into my DirecTV box. It is the cable box. No messy IR, complete integration with the TV Guide. That's how it's supposed to work. When every cable box comes with a PVR, that's when they'll really take off.

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    seriouslyexcited.net
  12. TiVo owner != couch potato by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    My TV was 20" I used it to ocassionally watch rented movies, I did not have cable.
    I wanted to catch the end of the X files (which sucked) and getting a family member to record them was impossible.
    I purchased cable and realized just how pointless it is, I couldn't watch the shows I wanted to as I was always doing something else and programming 2 vcrs is above my pain threshold.
    Circuit city had TiVo on sale, I figured ehh why not I hate tapes and programming consumer devices.
    Since I purchased the TiVo I REALLY don't care what's on, something is always waiting for me when I get the time to watch TV, and I fast forward through the commercials, a half hour show becomes 15-20 minutes. The thing that records things it thinks you like is fairly accurate, although it thinks I'm Spanish sometimes.
    I could not imagine keeping track of two vcrs, swapping tapes, making sure their clocks are sync'd.
    Now that's obsessive!!

    I have Linux for my obsession.