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Video Storage And Hard Drive Manufacturers
IrateSurf writes "A new column posted over at the Storage Supersite questions whether or not PVRs (Personal Video Recorders) are good for the hard drive industry. It's interesting, considering topics like whether the noise of a hard drive is worse than a VCR. The discussion is a response to an earlier column talking about the bad market for hard drive makers."
Unless of course PVRs suddenly become hotter than DVD players in the consumer market, in which case I suppose demand will work things out. But the PVR is too much of a tech toy right now. I can't see grandma using one day to day to record her soap opera. Remember, millions of people out ther can't get rid of the blinbking 12:00 thing in their VCRs to save their lives.
Noise levels are the least of their problems, I dare say.
I get more noise from the whine when MediaT&Comcast compress their digital cable poorly, resulting in a high-pitched whine coming out of the audio of some stations (FoodTV for one, makes watching Good Eats a bit annoying).
Then again, I have my Tivo sitting behind a piece of glass that makes up the entertainment center. But even with the door open, it's hard to hear the drive, and I've got an un-modded Tivo.
Pausing and rewinding live TV is good example. I hate the culture that means that TV is so important that you can't be interrupted incase you miss anything. Ever had those "What was that they said?" moments? Where no-one heard the critical bit of dialog because someone was asking if anyone wanted a cup of tea? Well, I don't
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
Yes, lets see, lose all the fetures and the picture quality of a PVR and go back to a VCR? I think not. Besides, I don't have to remember to swap tapes when I want my favorite show recorded, or have to worry about swapping tapes, then in the interim someone decides to watch an old family movie and doesn't swap back, love that.
"The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
I know it would never happen, but I'd like a DVD player that had a hard drive with space to cache say 10-15 of the most recently watched films so I didn't have to wait for menus and swap disks.
Even if the hardware "expired" a copy after a week or so (to prevent permanent copies of rented films) it would still be useful.
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
I have a fairly old TIVO and have never noticed any noise from it. On the other hand, all of my VCRs are very noisy, especially when rewinding which is something the PVR eliminates.
In reality what I really want IS just a glorified VCR. I don't want to have to pay monthly fees for their service. I don't want to record every instance of "Whose Line..." available - I really only want the one that's on once a week at a particular time. I don't want TiVo (or ReplayTV, or whoever) to tell my machine to occasionally record things I haven't asked for, whether its because of their attempts at marketing or a lame attempt at "profiling" my viewing habits. I don't want these companies using my viewing habits for their gain, even if its anonymous and aggregate. But the PVR manufacturers seem hell-bent on only letting you use their device if you pay their monthly fee for their "service".
Until this is addressed, I'll just keep rotating tapes in my VCR.
#DeleteChrome
Comparing VCR noise against PVR noise is not an apples to apples comparison.
The VCR makes its noise most commonly when operating, with either the TV on or the user away.
The PVR makes its noise most of the time, regardless of the presence of the user.
A Tivo is pretty annoying at night in a quiet bedroom. The low levels of noise become much much more audible and annoying in that environment.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
The thing that makes the noise is that they are screwed to the metal. If you put a new HD on some rubber foam it is very silent. Its so easy to make the sound dissapear. Lazy designers should be shot but then half the PC industry would be gone tomorrow.
HTTP/1.1 400
If you want to reduce noise, use 2.5" drives at lower rpms. Yeah, they're a bit more expensive. But I daresay that a pair of 30GB notebook drives would make a PVR whisper quiet without significantly impacting performance. Smaller unit too, though I suspect size will remain pretty constant even when space isn't really an issue. Crack open your VCR sometime to check out the wasted space.
I wonder how recent decisions by HD manufacturers to allow quality to slide in the "consumer" (IDE) market segment will affect satisfaction with PVR devices.
Since manufacturers have switched their standard warranty terms from 3 years to 1 year, I'm guessing you can expect an IDE HD to last about 1.5 years. Does this mean that the typical buyer will throw out the PVR box every 18 months? I'll bet most people expect home entertainment equipment to last a lot longer than 18 months.
(Come to think of it, I'll bet a lot of people will be mad when their computers' HDs start failing after only 1 year of service).
Comments?
The HD noise issue is completely and totally irrelevant. First of all, most people use PVRs in their living room or (if they have one) media room. You put your PVR where you watch TV the most, and that isn't the bedroom.
Furthermore, there are a million ways to deal with the noise issue if you really needed to. Put the PVR in a cabinet, turn on the ceiling fan, get a cheap "white noise" generator, etc, etc.
The article touches on one of the two *REAL* problems with PVR adoption. I say this as as huge TIVO fanatic (I own three DirecTV TiVOs currently and I've converted 7 friends so far into fellow TiVO-haulics).
NUMBER 1) The difficulty in quickly explaining "the magic" of PVRs to the consumer. This is the big problem that the article mentioned more as an aside than as a major problem. Sales people talk about things like "pause live tv!" and other gimmicks that don't suck people in. The real joys of PVRs are:
1. The fact that it holds 60-120 hours of entertainment. You don't swap tapes. You don't have to run out to the store to buy tapes. It is all there, at your fingertips.
2. You can tell it your favorite shows and it will record them EVERY WEEK with no further input from you (even if the show gets moved to a different day or time, the PVR will STILL record it). It can even seek out your favorite show(s) over multiple channels if you so wish.
3. It has tons of built in features to find other shows you might like. You can search by genre, type of show or movie, etc. This is pretty handy.
4. It actively SEEKS OUT shows you might like (and while there are many strikeouts, it does hit a home run quite often). It does this by comparing the actors, genres, and other information of shows you LIKED (indicated by you giving it a thumbs up or just the fact that you recorded it on purpose) and seeking out other shows that are similar. I have started watching a number of really cool shows solely because TiVO grabbed a few of them for me.
5. PVRs are digital, which means fast forward, reverse, etc. work much better. This makes it a lot easier to motor through commercials (and Replay TV even has a +30 second button. TiVO only has a - 8 second button, but you can do a little remote trick to convert one of your buttons to a +30 second button).
NUMBER 2) This is a big issue that the article is not aware of: TIVO has failed to innovate over the last 1-2 years. There have been no significant new features and they have not improved the organization of your recorded shows (which gets to be a problem at 100+ hours of shows). This failure to innovate has served to reduce the "excitement level" of current PVR adoptees, and that slows down the rate at which they fervently try to convince friends to get one.
These 2 problems are what really matters in the PVR space. I haven't mentioned pressure from MPAA, Hollywood, etc. because that is the 600 pound gorilla that hangs over ALL entertainment, not just PVRs.
The point is, hard drive noise is irrelevanat compared to the MUCH larger issues that face the popularity and success of the PVR.
-Michael
Threshold RPG
I've got around 300Gb of downloaded movies and TV shows (over 90% I already had on VHS tape: but my VCR is downstairs and my computer is in my bedroom) - but I haven't downloaded anything in a couple of weeks now as I just can't think of anything else I want/need. Ok, if you are one of those people that will watch "anything" then you might eat up a bit more storage - but I know what I like (comedy shows, bit of sci-fi) and that's mainly what I watch.
Ok - so the quality of some of the films could be a bit better - but I still reckon I could have more than enough viewing material for a year in 1Tb.
Oh - the quote about human memory storage in a petrabyte comes from Arthur C. Clarke's 3001 "'Shame on you! Kilo, mega, giga, tera... that's ten to the twelfth bytes. Then the petabyte - ten to the fifteenth - that's as far as I ever got.'...'That's about where we start. It's enough to record everything any person can experience during one lifetime.'"
I have a Maxtor 80 GB drive (5400 RPM, and I suspect it's a relabeled Quantum) that is pretty much silent. It looks just like the 13.6 GB Quantum drive that came in the Tivo, which is also pretty quiet (but not as quiet as the newer 80 GB).
OTOH I had a Maxtor 7200 RPM 40 GB drive that I could hear spin up from two rooms over, and the idle (spinning) noise was pretty loud too. That drive died eventually, but all of Maxtor's 7200 RPM drives I've used (we used them in MySQL servers) were loud like that, though the Quantum Atlas 10k SCSI drives were like jets taking off on spinup...
I'm pretty sure they already know how to make quieter drives, and it depends on the target application. Some of the Tivo drives run at 4400 RPM, and I'm sure there are many other tweaks that can be done. For realtime MPEG video, there's quite a bit of room to trade-off performance for speed, so any set-top box application can easily find quieter drives I'm sure.
Going into a store (or a web site) and looking at drives, you rarely find any info on how much noise they make. But when you're building set-top boxes, planning to do a lot of business purchasing drives, I'm sure you will find that info quite easily...
The Tivo is a LOT quieter than my VCR. I keep them both in an enclosed entertainment center (glass doors etc), and I never hear the Tivo.
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
Wow. What a narrow view of reality.
Speaking as an extremely happily married man myself, I can assure you that it's more than okay to use the word "fucking" in casual conversation with my wife.
There are times that we "make love", and there are times that we "fuck", and most of the time we're doing a combination of the two.
Having a deep and meaningful relationship means you don't have to censor yourself to be accepted, or to be loved. I can say whatever nasty thoughts might pop into my head and know that I won't be loved any less for it.
For the record, I have plenty of quiet conversations with my wife, and many of those occur in bed. In no world does good sex have to be to the exclusion of conversation, or vice versa. (Not even at the same time.)
-9mm-