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How to Use Your iPod Under Linux

Posted by pudge on from the mp3-ing-into-the-new-year dept.

Jon writes "For those lucky readers who received an iPod for Christmas I've put up an article on LinuxLookup.com on how I got my iPod working under Linux. I've given a little overview on the different options available, and which one worked best for my needs. All in all, I'm extremely happy with the outcome. I can transfer my music, create playlists, and add all of my contacts. The only thing missing is a nice GUI."

80 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. iPod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't know about you, but I was planning on being evil with my iPod. Pirating music, harvesting the Anarchists Cookbook, etc. Naturally I wouldn't do this under any other operating system.

  2. "All that is missing is a nice GUI" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is that for Linux, or for the iPod??? ;-)

  3. No iPod by Squareball · · Score: 2

    I didn't get an iPod, I got an Archos 20 Recorder. Records directly into the devide through various inputs and it records into MP3! I love it!!!! Does the iPod let you record? I'm just curious.. I haven't used an iPod

  4. Re:The investment in an iPod warrants the followin by MisterFancypants · · Score: 2

    Did you fail reading comprehension in school? What this guy did was get Linux to transfer files to/from his iPod. He didn't make Linux run on the iPod. Dumbass!

  5. slashdotted? by kernkopje · · Score: 2, Informative

    Site appears to be slashdotted already? What's the point in submitting your self-authored article
    to a community that you can expect to hammer your server into oblivion?

    Sigh.

    1. Re:slashdotted? by linuxlover · · Score: 2

      well reading WHITE font over BLUE background was hard on eyes. Thank God for Opera's 'author-mode' :-)

  6. Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by Spencerian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There was a time, not long ago, where Apple made interesting, even innovative technology--but designed it so it worked only with its Macintosh hardware.

    It's great for the industry and many others that Apple is slowly crawling out of the mindset that all of their products must work strictly with a Mac. Their move to Mac OS X would be contradictory to such a philosophy since *nix is a widely supported and tinkerable OS.

    The iPod is mostly a glorified FireWire drive, so this software doesn't impress me as much as the relative enthusiasm of developers to make it work. Even if you don't use it, Mac OS X and the iPod is a nice catalyst for a drab, uninventive computer industry at the moment.

    --
    Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    1. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Insightful
      There was a time, not long ago, where Apple made interesting, even innovative technology--but designed it so it worked only with its Macintosh hardware.

      So.... just like the iPod then, which works on other platforms only due to 3rd parties reverse engineering parts of the on disk format?

      It's great for the industry and many others that Apple is slowly crawling out of the mindset that all of their products must work strictly with a Mac

      No it isn't. Otherwise why are Apple buying up app vendors (I don't recall the name of the product i'm thinking of, some graphics/music program), and scaring all the customers silly because they think Apple will make them Mac only?

      Their move to Mac OS X would be contradictory to such a philosophy since *nix is a widely supported and tinkerable OS.

      Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way. Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").

    2. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by nullard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So.... just like the iPod then, which works on other platforms only due to 3rd parties reverse engineering parts of the on disk format?

      Here is proof to the contrary. It took them a while, but Apple did release a Windows compatible iPod.

      Even Dell sells them.

      You must have missed the announcemnt a few months ago.

      Anyway, the Mac version just uses HFS. There are 3rd party HFS readers for *nix and Windows. I don't know if they were reverse engineered or created from Apple specs.

      Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way.

      If you ignore the fact that you can recompile the kernel and change most OS variables using XML plists and NetInfo, you are absolutely correct. If I ignore my need for oxygen I can breathe in space too.

      --


      t'nera semordnilap
    3. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by Eravau · · Score: 3, Informative
      Sure...Apple doesn't publish anything else but a gray version of aqua. They're proud of their interface and want everyone to use it. So what? You can download/create your own themes if you'd like.

      Check out the 3rd-party utilities and web sites to get what you'd like:

      Are the themes as varied yet as something like Kaleidoscope allowed on pre OS X? Of course not. But the appearance themes aren't near as limited as you think.
    4. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by bogie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      " There was a time, not long ago, where Apple made interesting, even innovative technology--but designed it so it worked only with its Macintosh hardware."

      I guess if Apple was actually in the habit of coming up with cool gadgets year after year you might have a point. But the only possibly crossplatform gadgets I can think of that Apple has even innovated in the past 15 years are the newton and the ipod. So while it may be all well and good that the Ipod hasn't specifically been designed so it won't work in Windows or Linux, Apple mostly continues to be a computer maker not a inventor of new technology for all platforms. So again I'm just not sure what your point was since Apple really only makes computers, not hardware for every platform that we can all benefit from.

      "It's great for the industry and many others that Apple is slowly crawling out of the mindset that all of their products must work strictly with a Mac."

      One product (the ipod) doesn't mean much. Especially when you consider its not Apple themselves making it work with other platforms.

      Sorry if I seem negative about this, but your whole post seems to try to give Apple credit for something they haven't earned. What you said is akin to sending congrats to MS because their mice are cross platform. Now you may be able to do so, but A) this wasn't intended and B) it represents a minority of MS's product line.

      Just something to think about.

      --
      If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    5. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2
      The windows compatible iPod is simply an iPod with a FAT32 harddisk iirc, they didn't release any official Windows software for it, nor do they support it.

      HFS is not what was reverese engineered, the on disk catalog format was not documented. You can't just add an MP3 to the iPod disk, you have to update the database as well.

      If you ignore the fact that you can recompile the kernel and change most OS variables using XML plists and NetInfo, you are absolutely correct. If I ignore my need for oxygen I can breathe in space too.

      plists and NetInfo are hardly customization tools. They are minor tweaks at best. Even the Windows registry does much better than that, and of course this is nothing compared to what can be tweaked if you have the source, or can replace layers of the OS at will.

    6. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by SensitiveMale · · Score: 5, Insightful


      So.... just like the iPod then, which works on other platforms only due to 3rd parties reverse engineering parts of the on disk format?

      mmm, go to www.dell.com and buy an iPod for windows by ..... wait for it .... Apple. Or buy an iPod for windows by Apple. Or do you consider the manufacturer of the iPod a third party?

      Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way. Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").

      I could list half a dozen OS X theme managers AND a few dozen themes. Sure, there a lots more for windows but OS X has been around much less time than Stardock.

      As for the "OS X isn't tinkerable at all' look at the hundreds of programs that 'tinker' with OS X. Fruitmenu, XSounds, WindowShadeX, ASM, CeePeeYou, A-Dock, Synergy, and tons of other cursor, menu items, haxies, and other enhancements.

      And if you want a full cocoa Finder you can get Path Finder from cocoatech.com.

      Just because you don't have the source code of OS X doesn't mean that you can't tinker with it to your heart's content.

    7. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by mbbac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think he was talking about the general trend of Apple using (*and creating) standards where possible nowadays: Java, USB, FireWire*, IP, 802.11, ZeroConf*, IDE, ADC*, MPEG4*, WebDAV, FiberChannel. I'm sure there are many more examples of Apple's support of standards, those are simply off the top of my head.

      --

      mbbac

    8. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by fidget42 · · Score: 2
      ...they didn't release any official Windows software for it, nor do they support it.
      Actually, Apple did release "official Windows software" for the iPod and it is supported.

      The really nice thing is being able to plug the iPod into a Mac, transfer files to the iPod, then plug it into a PC and transfer files from the iPod. It is this kind of flexability that made be buy the Windows version , even though my primary machine is a Mac.
      --
      The dogcow says "Moof!"
    9. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by Phroggy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No it isn't. Otherwise why are Apple buying up app vendors (I don't recall the name of the product i'm thinking of, some graphics/music program), and scaring all the customers silly because they think Apple will make them Mac only?

      You may be thinking of Shake.

      Except OS X isn't tinkerable at all. Practically all the code Apple has written is closed source, and the Mac parts of MacOS are generally only capable of doing things one way.

      Hogwash. Just because it's closed-source doen't mean it's not tinkerable. Perhaps not to the extent you'd like, but really, how many end users hack the source code of their GUI? OSX has a ways to go, but it's quickly becoming more hackable than OS9 ever was, and if you don't think OS9 was hackable, well, you haven't known many Mac users.

      Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").

      Hogwash. I'm using a third-party theme right now. It happens to be an imitation of the Platinum theme from Mac OS 9, because that's what I happen to like, but there are others. Not a huge number of themes available, but it's a relatively new OS. They'll come.

      And yes, this Platinum theme is a little quirky - it's got a funny little piece of something at the top of the scrollbar, no window borders, and a few other details aren't quite right. And, I've combined it with the Mozilla Classic theme from Mac OS 9, which is even quirkier with the OSX version of Mozilla. I'll probably go back to Modern. Anyway, like I said, give it time.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    10. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by geek · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Umm, they pushed USB and they made Firewire to name just two. Think a little harder on that and then post again.

      To compliment their achievments in hardware they open or offer freely a lot of software now as well, Darwin and Rendevouz not to mention the quicktime streaming server.

    11. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by bogie · · Score: 2

      Umm Intel was pushing USB long before Apple used it.

      Also Apple gave away Darwin so they could get free R&D, and talk to me when a quicktime client is available for Linux.

      I guess I won't bother mentioning that Apple is as suit happy as Disney as well. Oh well I did anyway. ;)

      Think a little harder on that and then post again.

      I'm not expecting Apple to go completely OS anytime soon. But I'm sure a hell not going to forget their proprietary, suithappy past and start slapping them on the back just yet.

      --
      If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    12. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by reallocate · · Score: 2

      OhMiGod! No 3rd party themes for my iMac!!!

      Now there's a problem I'll stay up nights fretting about.

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    13. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by geek · · Score: 2

      Show one example of Intel pushing USB. Not one PC came with USB before Apple made it standard on the iMac.

      As far as that pathetic argument of apple wanting free R&D I think you need to take your head out from where the sun doesn't shine. Apple has put as much or more into Darwin as any open source developer. That stupid comment about quicktime for Linux is just what i would expect from a linux bigot. Quicktime is not a codec, there is no reason open source developers can't implement mpeg4 and the other codecs with the exception of sorenson (note sorenson not apple) on linux.

      If you want to be anti-Apple then do so with at least a moderate amount of intelligence and evidence.

      Perhaps you can define suithappy. I'm thinking you pulled that one out of your ass as some sort of wannabe argument against Apple.

      Better luck next time.

    14. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by SensitiveMale · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even the Windows registry does much better than that

      Well, that is the first time I have ever read anyone praising the registry.

      That damn registry is the worst thing ms ever came out with, including Bob.

    15. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by Spencerian · · Score: 2

      Umm Intel was pushing USB long before Apple used it.

      Intel pushed USB, but Microsoft didn't, and that was all that mattered, pre-1998. USB had no backers because the PC industry is resistant to change for fear of affecting the bottom line adversely.

      I remember in 1997 when dozens of Compaq workstations appeared at my workplace with USB cables--but no operating system that supported it. The USB drivers in Windows 95 OSR2 were busted and practically unusable. There were very, very few USB devices.

      In comes Apple, who didn't create USB, but just took an otherwise useful serial bus and installed it in all Macintosh systems since, starting with the iMac in 1998. That very act alone lit a fire under the computer industry's ass, and USB has been commonplace every since.

      Also Apple gave away Darwin so they could get free R&D, and talk to me when a quicktime client is available for Linux.

      OF COURSE Apple is giving away Darwin to make Mac OS X stronger. Does that make it or other operating systems that do the same thing (giving itself away) any less worthy? I would think not.

      As for something that can run QuickTime: you can start here. It ain't official, but many software projects in the *nix world aren't anyway. Besides, why would Apple make a QuickTime client that competes against their own OS? Duh...!

      You can also stream QuickTime for free from Linux. Reviews indicate this is the best streaming server out there, even compared to MS and Real.

      I guess I won't bother mentioning that Apple is as suit happy as Disney as well. Oh well I did anyway. ;)

      Think a little harder on that and then post again.

      I'm not expecting Apple to go completely OS anytime soon. But I'm sure a hell not going to forget their proprietary, suithappy past and start slapping them on the back just yet.

      A little food for thought: Compaq is a proprietary box. They make proprietary drivers that work only in specific models. They may run Windows, but not without a lot of help from Compaq.

      You throw around the "p" word as if owning something or the sole right to change it makes it less worthy. Everything worth something has a proprietary component. Even Linux. Your nose is bleeding from sitting so high on your horse.

      Apple is a business, and it is not out there to impress you or cause a revolution. If it can give away something to help their bottom line, great. If it can leverage its technologies to get more computers sold, that's fine. Can it still benefit you, presumed Linux user? Sure. Could Apple lapse back to its own ways? Maybe, but the market forces would destroy it.

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    16. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by pi+radians · · Score: 2

      Show one example of Intel pushing USB. Not one PC came with USB before Apple made it standard on the iMac.

      Incorrect. I know that IBM's Aptivas (my buddy's Pentium 133 had two ports) shipped with USB onboard. Of course Microsoft didn't have drivers for USB until Windows 95 Second Edition.

      --

      sin(6cos(r)+5A)
    17. Re:Goodbye "Not Invented Here" days by jmorris42 · · Score: 2

      > You throw around the "p" word as if owning something or the sole
      > right to change it makes it less worthy. Everything worth
      > something has a proprietary component. Even Linux. Your nose is
      > bleeding from sitting so high on your horse.

      It does make it less worthy in my eyes as a buyer of technology. When I see the "p" word in ad copy I cringe. I might still buy, but the "p" is always a negative. It means more expensive, harder to maintain and usually single source products. All bad things from the perspective of the buyer. Name the positive virtues you associate with the word; from the point of view of a CUSTOMER. Bet you can't.

      As for Linux having a proprietary component, huh? Some distros do, such as SUSE and Mandrake and Redhat used to flirt with the dark side, but Linux itself has no such attachments. RedHat != Linux.

      I lived through the PC revolution and saw great systems, innovative software and countless products die because of being proprietary and therefore incapable of surviving the death of their manufacturer. Never again will I walk into the trap of depending of a proprietary product for anything important.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
  7. Nifty, but... by Badge+17 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Kneejerk response #1: Yeah, but what good does that do me if all my files are .OGG?

    Although I'd seriously consider going through and re-ripping all of them if I had the money... The iPod is just one of the coolest little gadgets I've seen in a while - especially the clean interface.

    Has Apple indicated any wish to support alternate compression? A quick Google didn't find anything.

    I suspect Apple should start researching OGG, as it seems much more likely than MP3 to remain un-DRM-contaminated... and Apple seems to be placing itself in the position of "use our computers - no stupid DRM!"

    I also wonder if Apple could be persuaded to issue a release of iPod software for Darwin... that way it could more easily be converted.

    1. Re:Nifty, but... by tbmaddux · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Apple should start researching OGG, as it seems much more likely than MP3 to remain un-DRM-contaminated...
      MP3 is already un-DRM-contaminated. For it to become contaminated, it would have to be changed, at which point I would argue it's not really MP3 anymore. And all the old MP3 files and codecs would still work just fine, unless Apple starts playing games with our software. And as you noted, Apple's cultural position is opposed to that.

      It's my understanding that OGG is a good format, but my gut says is you're more likely to see MP4 support on the iPod first.

      --
      Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
    2. Re:Nifty, but... by SomeOtherGuy · · Score: 2

      The moment you spent all your time ripping your colletion to OGG -- you setup a lock and chain to your PC. I am all for the idea (and quality/openess
      ) off OGG, however -- I for one like to listen to tunes away from my PC. Don't feel bad -- somewhere out there someone who transfered all of their family films to betamax knows just how you feel.

      --
      (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
    3. Re:Nifty, but... by skt · · Score: 2

      MP3 is just a file format.. it won't go away because of DRM. DRM has to start at a much lower level, like the hardware you have in your computer/cd player and the CDs and movies that you buy in the stores. Even if all of that took place, mp3 would still be available to you, but it would be very difficult to encode the latest CD that you purchased into an MP3 file.

      The gripe that most people have around here with mp3 is more of a legal problem rather than DRM.. the mp3 encoding/decoding technology is still owned by a single corporation and that means royalties I imagine. MP3 won't go away anytime soon, but it will probably die a very slow death like GIF.

    4. Re:Nifty, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Quicktime 6.02 just now supports .OGG files as per two articles on /. So, it seems iPod support of .OGG will be around the corner and ready possibly for the next iPod Firmware update. However, this is just wild speculation on my part.

    5. Re:Nifty, but... by tbmaddux · · Score: 2, Informative
      if I remember correctly, the ipod does support ogg.
      Pretty sure you're thinking of QuickTime and/or iTunes through the plugin that got posted about twice.
      --
      Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
    6. Re:Nifty, but... by LoudMusic · · Score: 2

      This was posted just a short while ago. http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/25/ 1532236&mode=thread&tid=141 Perhaps what you're asking for isn't all that far away.

      --
      No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
    7. Re:Nifty, but... by geniusj · · Score: 2, Informative

      This could be informative, if it were correct. I don't know why it was slashdotted, but there has been a plugin available for a while to play OGG files in Quicktime and anything that uses the quicktime frameworks (e.g. iTunes). It's not a plugin made by apple nor is it supported by apple. It's just a 3rd party plugin and therefore doesn't really affect Apple's support of it.

      Cheers,
      -JD-

    8. Re:Nifty, but... by mbbac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wish Apple would give me a firmware update to enable playing Ogg files on my iPod as well.

      Hopefully, we'll get that on January 7th along with official Ogg support and Rendezvous streaming in iTunes. I have a feeling the AAC codec is more likely, though.

      --

      mbbac

    9. Re:Nifty, but... by Cyno · · Score: 2

      Alternatively the moment you developed a portable audio product that did not incorporate my open audio standard, ogg, you lost a potential customer. I have no problem listening to my music across various platforms, devices and networks. And I have no problem not paying corporations who develop products without putting even the slightest amount of thought into them or their customer's needs.

      Actually I'm in the process of transferring all my family films to ogm, the ogg media stream format. Ever heard of it? Not surprised. Its better than avi, wmv, quicktime, and rm, but you'll probably never use it until its "the next big thing", kinda like xvid. There's a huge difference between an audio/video codec and a phsyical product that relies on capitalism to perpetuate itself. Ogg will replace mp3s in the near future, its only a matter of time. Hint... people like me aren't supporting, sharing or using mp3s anymore than we have to.

    10. Re:Nifty, but... by Cyno · · Score: 2

      Yeah, iPods are nice, but I've decided long ago I won't purchase products that don't do exactly what I want. They'll figure it out sometime soon.

    11. Re:Nifty, but... by SomeOtherGuy · · Score: 2

      I will be the first in line to buy the first portable to support OGG. Until then I am not going to give up the perks of being a consumer just because the people building these devices can't get with the codec program. (The only thing that peaks my curiousity is the fact that there is not some big company behind the mp3 format that is holding a gun to their heads with a threat to pull the trigger if they move on to other codecs --- Now would not that be a nice "/. interview" -- 20 questions with the head engineer/president ceo of some of these companies like Iriver, Sonic Blue, Creative, Frontier Labs, etc....

      --
      (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
  8. The only thing missing is a nice GUI. by digitalsushi · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The only thing missing is a nice GUI."

    *avoids smart alec temptation to link to apple.com

    --
    slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
  9. Re:All in all? by L.+VeGas · · Score: 2

    It's a meta-recursive acronym. It means, "All-in-all In All-in-all".

    --
    Best Windows Freeware
  10. iPod is great but.... by My_nickname_is_taken · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just can't justify the price. Sure it's sleek and sexy, sounds great, has multiple interfaces for data transfer, but it's priced at least a couple hundred $$ above the competition.

    For $229 (BestBuy $279 + $50 mail in rebate) I'm very satisfied with my Archos Jukebox Recorder 20.

    It has 20GB HD, USB 1.1,2.0, and comes bundled with Music match Jukebox.

    My wife uses it mostly, so it's only seen Windoze, but I'm sure it wouldn't take long for me to get it working with Linux. If someone hasn't done it already.

    --
    "No Matter Where You Go.. There You Are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
    1. Re:iPod is great but.... by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 3, Informative

      It already works under Linux. It is accessed as a USB Mass Storage device using the ISD-200 chip with a VFAT filesystem. The driver is in the vanilla kernel, and the web site for it is here. Also, there is open source firmware (which Archos will be including on its CD-ROM with future players) located at this page. This firmware doesn't support recording yet, but it will very soon now according to the web site.

      I have my whole MP3 collection on it, and it's great. Although I have to admit that it's not as visually pleasing as an iPod.

    2. Re:iPod is great but.... by tshak · · Score: 2

      Ya, but I don't need a backpack with the iPod. You are paying a premium for the small size, the elegant UI, and the exceptional sound quality.

      --

      There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
  11. Re:iPod again? by rigga · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wow, Ill bet you just saved Apple millions. They prolly never thought that they could purchase the hundreds of thousands 5GB drives needed for iPods on Ebay. Stupid Apple, Why buy drives directly from manufactures at huge discounts when you can purchase them from Frank in Winsconsin who has 3 5gb drives for sale. Hmm, now they just need 999,997 more. Any more brilliant ideas?

    --
    RiGgA
  12. Been over this... by djupedal · · Score: 5, Informative

    I put up this iPod Comparison Chart/site for those looking to compare the iPod with other hd based players.

    While it hasn't been updated since the 20gb units w/remote came out, it does allow for review of more elements than most buyers ever consider (also tips, links and related trivia).

    Bottom line...FireWire is the only way to go (transfers and charging), and at 7 oz., an iPod will truly fit in your pocket. And yes, the new remote is backwards compatible...just be sure to update your iPod.

    1. Re:Been over this... by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's really too bad that so much effort was put into USB 2.0 when FireWire was available.

      They have virtually identical practical transfer rates, so the additional capabilities of USB 2.0 go to waste - unless, I suppose, you find yourself doing huge amounts of simultaneous data transfer to multiple USB 2.0 devices on the same bus.

      FireWire also sports two great benefits: more power (requires the 6-pin verion that is sadly not found on many smaller devices and x86 laptops) and no host-specific controller. People talk about putting Linux on a PDA and using USB to control devices from it, but until USB On-the-Go becomes pervasive, this cannot be a reality. On the other hand, Any FireWire device can communicate with any other.

      FireWire is a more flexible standard, and with planned upgrades to 800 Mbps and higher, there's no shortage to it's possibilities.

      If someone would just make a drive that doesn't use an IDE/FireWire bridge but actually has an on-drive FireWire interface, the benefits could be substantial.

      *sigh*

      As a note, you can get FireWire hard drives, , scanners, printers, and the Kodak DCS Pro 14n 14 megapixel camera will use FireWire

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    2. Re:Been over this... by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 2

      damn the scanners and printers should be a link. It goes to CD-RW/DVD-RW drive from Sony.

      Sorry for the mixup

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    3. Re:Been over this... by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 2

      IEEE 1394 is a standard, with no licensing fees. The license was for the FireWire name, which Apple now lets anyone use for their IEEE 1394 product. This is why there are i.Link devices - Sony didn't wanted a brand for it and didn't like the fees on FireWire (at the time).

      As for chipsets, they aren't as available as USB, but there are a few of them out there. All of Shuttle's XPC line incldues FireWire. Almost everything Sony makes; nVidia's nForce chipsets support it. Two of the three South Bridges Sis offers have it. I can't say about AMD or Intel, as AMD's site is worthless and, strangely, I can't get intel.com to load.

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
  13. my 20GB works great :) (and howto) by warrior · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apparently the site is already /.'ed. Here's a way to get it working with a nice GUI.

    I'm using the latest stable kernel (2.4.20). 1394/ohci/sbp2 are all working great. Be sure to check "prompt for development drivers", then add the 1394 module and be sure to add OHCI and sbp2 (these also help if you're into dv ;). Be sure to have SCSI compiled in or as a module!! Also be sure to inlude the HFS (if you've got the mac version) or msdos/vfat (for windows ipod) if you don't want to reformat your ipod. Reboot with you new kernel.

    modprobe the 1394 and ohci modules. Do a tail -f on /var/log/messages and plug in your ipod and wait for the magic :) You should see Apple iPod being added as a (5/10/20)GB SCSI disk. Add a mount point for the drive in /etc/fstab using vfat if you've got windows or hfs if you've got a mac. You should now be able to access the iPod as a removable SCSI drive! modprobe -r sbp2 to safely remove the ipod (you have to unmount it first, too).

    Now, for the GUI. Download ephpod. Install it using wine (wine ephpod.exe). Change your wine config (probably ~/.wine/config) to use wherever you mounted your ipod as a drive. Startup ephpod. Be sure you've added some nice fonts to your wine install.

    Enjoy!

    --
    Intel transfer the difficult from Hadware to software, for get more power, programmer need more technology. -- chinaitn
    1. Re:my 20GB works great :) (and howto) by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      You can find more instructions (a non-slashdotted copy) here

    2. Re:my 20GB works great :) (and howto) by warrior · · Score: 2

      Those steps are for someone who doesn't have at least kernel v2.4.20 and the proper modules compiled. Most current distros have all the necessary stuff so you just need to plug it in and mount it. At that point, it's just like any other drive and (like on windows) it's a matter of writing the itunes.db on the ipod. Ephpod is pretty good for this, but it's windows software so requires wine. This is not a permanent solution. Someone will build a nice linux native UI, I'm working on one myself.

      my mom had the hardest time installing the software and pluging the darn thing in

      I bet she did. For instance, when I plug mine in under winxp as soon as "Musicmatch Jukebox" recognized the iPod the #@!ing computer restarts. I'm not re-installing the (P)OS for this when a kernel compile takes 5 min. I was, however, able to get it to work in windows with ephpod, but all my music is on the linux box anyways and transferrring over the network is slower than firewire. Kudos to the ephpod developers, very nice. Open source it!

      Mike

      --
      Intel transfer the difficult from Hadware to software, for get more power, programmer need more technology. -- chinaitn
    3. Re:my 20GB works great :) (and howto) by kzinti · · Score: 2

      Yep, I can confirm this works - I've been using it since I got my 20GB Win iPod. I only used the bundled crapola software once: to "christen" my iPod.

      EphPod is a cool program, and I'm glad to have it. However, using EphPod under linux still has some glitches:

      (1) The "Add Directory..." feature doesn't work, you just get an empty selection browser. I suspect this is a wine limitation (I'm using the Crossover plugin version). You have to use "Add Files" instead, and just select all the files you want to add. That doesn't sound like too bad a workaround, but it's quite painful if you're adding a few thousand.

      (2) Sometimes EphPod screws up the iPod database: choose a Fleetwood Mac tune, get Elvis Costello song instead. *sigh* Using the EphPod's "Rebuild Database" function cures that problem, but it almost always loses the playlists. Solution: always keep linux-side copies of the playlists. I use xmms to build the playlists, then use Emacs to clean the xmms-specific lines out of them. Xmms can still use them, and they can be re-loaded into the iPod after rebuilding the database.

      (3) The 1394 drivers are immature. They frequently fail to recognize the iPod; unloading then reloading sbp2 usually fixes this. The drivers sometimes cause kernel oopses, at least with 2.4.19 and the latest 1394 drivers as of the time I got my iPod - I haven't tried 2.4.20 yet.

      (4) EphPod doesn't seem to recognize mp3 genre tags; I haven't looked deeply into this problem yet, but I suspect it may be an id3v2 vs v1 problem.

      That sums up my experience. I would say that using an iPod under linux is not for the faint of heart.

      --

      (Because linux sees the iPod as a generic block device, there are some interesting things you can do with it. When I first hooked up my iPod, I used a 'dd if=/dev/sdb | gzip -9' to grab an image of the hard disk - which could later be used to restore the entire iPod back to "virgin" state. I also dd'ed off a copy of /dev/sdb1 to have a copy of the firmware. The entire 20GB image compressed down to less than 10MG - must be mostly zeroes.)

      --Jim

  14. Re:iPod again? by Toraz+Chryx · · Score: 5, Informative

    Find me a 5GB >>>1.8" Toshiba harddisk on ebay (or otherwise) for $15 and I'll eat my hat.

    The price/capacity is even worse for the IBM Microdrive, but I'd rather stick one of those in my camera than a 120GB WD1200JB

  15. Re:Can you get it to take ogg files under linux? by pyrros · · Score: 2, Informative

    The problem is not getting oggs in the ipod, the problem is getting the ipod to play them. This would require a firmware upgrade from either apple, or some very smart people.

  16. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  17. Re:Learn to run a website by statusbar · · Score: 2

    Cool information.... But isn't it usually sufficient (and easier) to just stick squid in front of the web server?

    --jeff++

    --
    ipv6 is my vpn
  18. Re:All in all? by the+way,+what're+you · · Score: 2


    "All in all" is slang for an orgy. You know, one with no holes barred.

    --
    example.org - powered by Linux!
  19. Re:The only thing missing is a nice SIG by gosand · · Score: 2
    They're over there with their things. It's with its things. A lot of things.

    You're sig will fall on deaf ears with the /. crowd, and your a fool to think otherwise. Most people would of realized that by now.

    :-)

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  21. Re: Learn to be a Luddite by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 3, Interesting
    To use your own example, CNN doesn't scale at all. Whenever a major news even happens, CNN goes offline, along with MSNBC, et. al. CNN actually has a "breaking news" mode that eliminates all the database-driven crap from their front page. Yahoo scales well because they make extensive use of pre-generated files. Imagine that! For example, the charts on finance.yahoo.com are generated periodically, not custom generated on every request.

    Thanks for sharing your expert knowledge of httpd.cond.dist.

  22. your site is way out of date by g4dget · · Score: 5, Informative
    Both Archos and Creative have entirely new product lines out there. Some Archos drives are much sleeker and more capable and support both FireWire and USB2 (as well as MPEG4 video and audio).

    The Creative Nomad Zen is sleek and small, and supports both FireWire and USB, as well as recharging through USB.That alone makes it a much better choice for Linux users than the iPod. It also seems to have somewhat better battery life, and it supports recording.

  23. Why??? by swordgeek · · Score: 2

    OK, I already know the answer to this one: Because you CAN!

    However, from a practical point of view, I can't imagine any reason to run Linux on a box that comes with a very tightly (and well) designed BSD Unix OS.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  24. D'oh! by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I first skimmed the headline for this story, I was saying to myself: "Wow, cool! They have iPod tools for Linux? Maybe I can get them to compile under Mac OS X!"

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Apparently this is no longer true by barzok · · Score: 2

    There's a "Tremor" integer-only codec listed on the CODEC project page.

  27. Re:alternatives by geek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nothing from Archos even comes close but the Nomad Zen is nice for the money. It just lacks a decent interface which has been creatives problem with all of their products for years. I have a Nomad IIc right now from Creative and love it. I've dropped it several times and the case is all scratched up but it still works like a charm and iunes plays quite happily with it.

    I really like the looks of the iPod but I refuse to pay that much money for it right now. Maybe when I find a new job but even then it will be a serious decision.

  28. Re:Learn to run a website by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Funny
    Indeed, let's examine this situation:

    http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?

    This Web site is using dynamic content with Perl. Already we know the site isn't set up for high concurrency. Plus, it's using open source software, so it can't possibly be up to the enterprise standard of robust scalable architectures.

    sid=02/12/31/175213&

    It also appears that the main content is being loaded from a database by ID number. New flash: Why not a flat file? Hell-ooooo, haven't they ever heard of CSV?

    mode=thread&tid=106

    And it looks like the programmer decided to respond to a user action on every request. Call me an old relic, but I do miss the days when every programmer didn't have to worry about some stupid "UI" and instead concentrated on what computers were intended for: outputting incessant streams of meaningless data.

    If this guy expect this site to hold up to the Awesome Powers of the Slashdot Effect, he'd better think again.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  29. How much a speed hit for dynamic xsl. by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 2

    It's kind of weird to see a flamebait parent post morph into an interesting tech discusssion. I'll probably get modded off-topic, but what the hell.

    I'm actually writing a blog system that stores blog files in xml and then transforms them from xml to html (among other formats). I've considered the whole just-in-time transformation thing, but I'm worried that it might be too much of a speed hit (every time a user hits the blog site, yet another transform). If it saps too much server cpu cycles, sysadmins might not be all to keen on having the software installed.

    Do you think my fears are unfounded, and that 1000 users hitting the site a day (which means maybe ~1500 jit xslt transformations) on a server that a hell of a lot of people are using for a hell of a lot of other things is reasonable?

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  30. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

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  31. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  32. Re:Goodbye "No Theme" days by Tokerat · · Score: 2
    Unlike every Linux and Windows, MacOS is still not capable of being themed by 3rd parties (unless you consider a grey version of the default a "theme").
    • Duality 3.1 - "Scheme" switcher for MacOS X (you say theme, we say scheme, I have no idea why)
    • IHeartNY - Custom icons and dock skins.
    • CandyBar - from Panic and the IconFactory, allows you to customize any and all system icons, including the toolbar, the trash icon, the default folder icon, etc.
    So I'd say we're pretty much covered. I'm sure it won't be long before someone writes an app that will replace Dock.app to do something different, even if Apple tries to sue the bejesus out of them.

    Hmm, now that I've compiled this list (and I'm sure I missed a bunch of stuff), why haven't I installed any of this on my OS X machine? *off to download :-)*
    --
    CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
  33. Re:OGG on portables... by Doc+Hopper · · Score: 2

    Was true until a little while ago. http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/index.html. The new "Tremor" codec is integer-only. I think it may require a bit more CPU speed than mp3, though.

    --

    Matthew P. Barnson
    I learn what I think when I read what I write

  34. Re:Learn to run a website by Doc+Hopper · · Score: 2

    If you're seriously expecting a ton of traffic to a web site, DNS round-robin to multiple web caches is an excellent idea. Akamai has a pretty good thing going, where people pay to put their content out on the proxy network that has convenient nodes all over the planet. Even just for a farm of web servers, though, putting a Squid cache in front of them and "pegging" certain URLs in memory makes an amazing speed difference.

    Back when I worked for Excite@Home, we got to play with this on our E-Commerce sites. Usually it took ten web servers to handle peak load. We tried out transparent reverse proxy-caching, and were able to reduce that to *two* web servers. We could have easily gotten by with one if we didn't need fault-tolerance. It may seem unnecessarily complex, but IMHO any site that expects to handle massive web traffic should seriously investigate a front-end proxy-cache server. Virtually all of the very high-traffic sites do this (including Slashdot, though done in a slightly different way).

    So, complex? Yeah, a little bit. But the performance benefits of using specialized products designed to do one job well (squid proxy cache, plus an apache-based cgi engine behind it) cannot be ignored by anybody expecting her site to get hammered.

    --

    Matthew P. Barnson
    I learn what I think when I read what I write

  35. it's been done before by nuckin+futs · · Score: 2

    using ephpod and WINE. this uses a GUI. here's a site with step by step instructions.

  36. Re:iPod again? by jmorris42 · · Score: 2

    There are laws against selling used parts in 'new' equipment. And remember that these drives aren't big assed 3 1/2" drives. They ain't even 2 1/2 laptop drives. The iPod uses tiny little PC Card drives that aren't cheap.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  37. Re:Been over this... USB 2.0 has a Purpose by puto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have 5 USB 2.0 80 gig drives in the field. I get them for 140 bucks a piece.

    1. They offer another back up option. My networks have tapes but they also have this extra redundancy. Connect it to a plane jane windows box running 2000(any old box). And you can have it back up your entire network quickly and easily in the wee small hours. 80 gigs is a lot space and you can restore from it rather quickly, much quicker than a tape. Still keep the tapes but for an 80 gig back up that will run for about 3 years constantlym you can beat the price.

    2. I have one that does in my tech back with 4 20 gig partitions, one is mp3's for me to listen to. One is just about every software tool imaginable. The third is ISOs of all the redhats, windows, solaris,office, you name it i got it. And the fourth I use to grab files with that need fixing.

    I also carry an interface card with me. Because now I dont carry around all those cds. If I have to dump a lotta data, i just pop in the 2.0 card(if the machine doesnt have it) and I boogie.

    USB 2.0 is fast enough for me, will be more widepread than firewire. And I have never had a problem with it.

    Now my 'doctor' bad is just a Leatherman, this drive, and the adaptor card, and one cd with the drivers.

    Firewire is great technology but Apple forced intels hand when the wanted to charge per installation per motherboad. They reneged but way after the fact. That is why it didnt take off so quick.

    I have an ipod, and an ibook. And firewire is fast. But I gotta say when I can dump 10 gigs in hardly anytime. No messing with tapes(I still use em but this is quicker) if it fails I always have the tape.

    My other USB 2.0 personal drive gets the same treatment as my clients. I leave the house for the night, it goes with me.

    Puto

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  38. Re:Learn to run a website by tshak · · Score: 2

    DNS round-robin to multiple web caches is an excellent idea

    No, it's a cheap idea, but not excellent. A hardware loadbalancer is always the way to go if the funds are available. Round Robin's will blindly direct a user to A) an over burdened server (eg: each server has 5 users but server A's users utilizing much more resources), or B) a downed server.

    And I definitely wouldn't use /. as an example - of all the sites that I visit daily, this site definitely has the worst uptime by a long shot.

    --

    There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
  39. your favorites are really "out there..." by djupedal · · Score: 2

    My site doesn't waste time listing products that aren't for sale and may never exist. I waited all year for Nomad to release something besides a press release. I finally stopped waiting...they are too late to the party, and now they've missed the 2002/03 Christmas shopping season.

    From the Nomad site: "available soon"...how lame is that?

    Besides, I love it when Nomad and Archos L-users whine :)

  40. Re:Ebay by Toraz+Chryx · · Score: 2

    That's hardly 5GB for $15 ;)

  41. Re:Learn to run a website by Doc+Hopper · · Score: 2
    • No, it's a cheap idea, but not excellent.

    Despite many efforts to create "worldwide hardware load balancing", every idea that doesn't use DNS round-robin in some form to distribute load across caches that do not share high-speed private networks between them has been a fairly unspectacular failure. Hardware load balancers like the Cisco LocalDirector, BigIP F5 (which also does reverse proxy-caching), and Arrowpoint (same) are very cool, and give you very nice redundancy, but don't scale to a globally distributed architecture at all. In those situations (sorry I wasn't more explicit), a DNS round-robin is the main choice if you're not going to attempt to do some sort of ARIN lookup to redirect people to the correct cache, or have a manual redirect to a more responsive country. Of course, behind each of those DNS round-robin entries, you should have an HLB so that that IP will not go unavailable.

    • And I definitely wouldn't use /. as an example - of all the sites that I visit daily, this site definitely has the worst uptime by a long shot.

    Good uptime is generally a side-effect of competent systems administration, not a direct effect of the architecture underlying it. Poor architecture can be worked around by good systems administration, and likewise good architecture made better the same way. However, the original question was about performance, not uptime. A reverse proxy web-cache in front of your web server is a sound decision for high-performance web serving. The uptime or lack thereof can be caused by other systems administration problems, or perhaps something as simple as having a single point of failure along the path.

    That said, I should probably have pointed to CNN, Yahoo, or another heavy-load web site that uses reverse proxy web-caches to improve their site's responsiveness, rather than Slashdot.
    --

    Matthew P. Barnson
    I learn what I think when I read what I write

  42. do your homework by g4dget · · Score: 2
    My site doesn't waste time listing products that aren't for sale and may never exist. [...] From the Nomad site: "available soon"...how lame is that?

    The only thing that's lame is your excuses. The Nomad Zen and the entire Archos product line have been at our local electronics store for a while. And if you bothered to check PriceGrabber.COM or similar sites, you'd see that, while some companies are sold out due to Xmas, several still have them in stock. Reviews on Amazon.com go back to October 23.

    Besides, I love it when Nomad and Archos L-users whine :)

    And that's your excuse for putting out inaccurate and outdated information?

  43. Re:Learn to run a website by tshak · · Score: 2

    Most sites do not need a globally distributed architecture, but if it does both Cisco and F5 have respective products that add the functionality of geographic specific caching or traffic management. Check out the 3-DNS from F5. I'm obviously an F5 fan, but maybe that's just because I live 6 minutes from their corporate office :-). I believe that Cisco has left the LocalDirector to smaller installations, and has moved on to some Content Distribution somethingrather.

    I still stand by my assertion that a hardware based load balancer is the way to go. I also disagree about your contention regarding the quality of sysadmins. Although the quality of a sysadmin is definitely a factor, a poor architecture that can't handle the load will fail no matter the quality of the sysadmin(s), and visa versa.

    --

    There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips