Still Hope for Farscape

An anonymous reader wrote in to say that the "Save Farscape" campaign thinks there is still hope. If the next 11 episodes (starting Friday, January 10 on the SciFi Channel) pull the right numbers ). According to this interview with David Kemper:"If we were to do 2s, straight across the boards for these eleven eps, I would be expecting to have phone conversations with people immediately..." Of course that is pretty unlikely- but my household won't miss an episode. To bad the cats don't count in the nielsons ;)

Comments

Re:Why save it?

[clutch110]

So on the same token, should we stop going to plays or operas and live life to the fullest?

Isn't this the same thing, one person or group of people showing their creative vision to the world?

I agree, most of television is crap, but to disregard it on the whole is a mistake.

Nielsen

[CySurflex]

Nielsen ratings only apply to nielsen households which is a small percentage of the american public. If your TiVo or your cable set-top box was allowed to send back viewing habits info to the cable provider, the media companies would have much better numbers to go by.

I never understood why people always get so riled up by that prospect.

Re:Nielsen

[SirWhoopass]

I don't know how keen I am on having every ad agency in the country know my viewing habits, but you are right. The Nielsen rating only apply to a very small number of households. I would bet a lot of groups are underrepresented. How many single college kids living in apartments/dorms do you know with Nielsen boxes?

It would be interesting to see what happened if you could suddenly get viewing data from all those TiVos, digital cable boxes, and satellites out there. It might be like when album sales became directly tied to the sales register instead of clerk reporting. It was discovered that country music accounted for far more sales than was credited.

Re:Nielsen

[msobkow]

Personally I don't care what ad companies target a show -- I fast forward through the crap unless it catches my interest anyhow.

Here's a hint for the advertisers: make it amusing. I'll actually watch an amusing ad, even if I have no interest in the product. IBM, Blockbuster, and a few others seem to have grasped that; corps like GM, Chrysler, Ford, etc. are still under the misguided belief that their ads have anything to do with which vehicle I end up buying.

Re:Nielsen

[JordoCrouse]

I don't know how keen I am on having every ad agency in the country know my viewing habits, but you are right.

I don't know how much I care about that. In my opinion, if they are going to broadcast an ad anyway, they might as well use something that appeals me as well as something applicable to my life situation (hint: more beer commercials, less tampon commercials).

I have yet to hear a compelling argument why targeted advertising is so bad, but if anyone out there wants to give it a shot, I'm all ears...

Re:Nielsen

[swillden]

Television pisses me off because more likely than not you're already paying for the video feed with an overpriced cable or satalite bill, yet they feel the need to tack on extra means of income by trying to force you to watch commercials that most likely you don't give a shit about.

Those are separate. The money you pay to get the signal goes to support the distribution network. The bulk of the advertising revenue goes to support the production of the shows.

Of course, a profit margin exists in both revenue streams, but, hey, the bills have to get paid.

If you are really that bothered by commercials, you have other options. You can buy all of the material you watch (DVDs, etc.); you might be able to find someone to sell you commercial-free material (you can definitely get commercial-free music); you can opt out and not watch; or you can flip channels/stations (essentially freeloading, although as in many circumstances, freeloading requires a lot more effort than paying). Really, there's no reason to get pissed off here, no one's forcing you to do anything. Decide what you want, decide what you're willing to pay, and figure out what falls in the intersection of those sets. If A /intersect B = {}, so be it. Try going outside.

In my case, I don't care about commercials all that much, but I can't get free TV (not legally, anyway; my brother-in-law is an AT&T broadband installer, and would hook me up for free, but I'm not into that) and it's just not worth paying for, so we don't watch TV.

Re:Nielsen

[marekk]

This is completely false. While Nielsen households are not a completely random sample of the viewing audience, they are accurate enough to represent the viewership audience per show within an acceptable margin of error. Random sampling/surveys are a scientifically sound method of obtaining an overview of the whole.

If the Nielsen ratings weren't accurate, stations, broadcasters, advertisers, etc would be screaming for a more accurate viewership measuring system. The accuracy of the Nielsen ratings is essential to the surviability of the NielsenMedia company. If the people that studied these ratings (advertisers, execs) didn't feel they were accurate, they would be looking for a new parter to monitor ratings.

Nielsens

[szcx]

Of course that is pretty unlikely- but my household won't miss an episode. To bad the cats don't count in the nielsons ;)

Unless you have a box, you count for about as much as your cats.

Interesting show on cable (Trio)

[Microsift]

"Brilliant but Cancelled" described fan efforts to save cancelled shows, noting it is nearly impossible, once the final decision is made. They did cite one example of a show that was cancelled and brought back because of fan support, "Cagney and Lacy." The show was out of production and the actors and actresses had been released from their contracts, but they managed to get everyone back.

If Farscape is officially canceled, there's probably not much hope. One notable difference is that the shows featured on "Brilliant..." were all on one of the major networks, so Sci-Fi may play it differently.

Re:What about

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Why are people so fucking gung-ho about saving a TV show, yet wouldn't lift a finger to help another human being?

Because nearly all other human beings suck.

Next question?

Re:Why save it?

[DevilM]

If you treat TV in a similar vain as say a play then I can see your point. However, most people just plop down in front of the tube and waste their life away.

Make TV a special event to be enjoyed socially with friends and strangers a like and then you'll have something. Until then, even the most creative content from TV can be better found somewhere else.

Dont rely on viewer count machines

[nurb432]

Everyone still call/write si-fi after each episode and ask for more...

Be sure to mention content in each weeks show so they KNOW you are really watching..

We have a chance here, lets not blow it.

Re:Dont rely on viewer count machines

[jmoriarty]

We have a chance here, lets not blow it.

I share your pain, but we have no chance. In geek-speak, it's the Kobayashi Maru, we ain't Kirk.

The Trio channel ran an interesting series of "Brilliant But Cancelled" shows in December. (Including my much lamented favorite, Profit) They also ran a documentary on cancelled TV shows, and talked about Fan campaigns to save shows. The bottom line, straight from the horse's mouth, is that they just won't work. Period. Every case except the original (ST:TOS) where a show has risen from the grave was due to some other force at work. Even the show's producers said "Thanks, but save your energy."

Ratings = $. Letters = recycling.

Accept it

[core plexus]

I know some peole will get their knickers in a twist over this, but here's The Ugly Truth: Everything Dies. Just like the post about the science programme on BBC going off the air after more than 30 years, it has to end sometime. Best advice: Go out with a bang, don't wither and whimper. One more thing: less TV, more life.

Man Gets 70mpg in Homemade Car-Made from a Mainframe Computer

Re:Accept it

[gwernol]

Everything Dies... Best advice: Go out with a bang, don't wither and whimper. One more thing: less TV, more life.

Agreed, except that Farscape was written to be a five season show. One of the things that makes Farscape so exceptional is that it has a huge story arc running over all five seasons. Killing the show after the end of season four is particularly brutal because the storyline will never be resolved. They only had one season to go.

Re:Accept it

[TrevorB]

Well, seeing as how the show was only supposed to last exactly 5 seasons and no more, and the show ends in a major cliffhanger, fans of the show are a bit bent up about it. In shows where overall story arc matter (as opposed to everything-back-they-way-they-started-when-the-epi sode-started shows), getting the last chapter cut out of your book can be fairly upsetting.

Babylon 5 was in a similar situation. After really struggling out of the blocks and looking like it was going to make it, there were signs on the wall that 4 seasons might indeed be it. JMS tried to wrap things up nicely to end the show after 4 seasons, and then notice that the 5th and final season would go ahead came late in the year. As a consequnce (and IMHO), the 5th season suffered as a consequence, feeling more like an add on set of minor story arcs. But at least there was closure if it only went 4 seasons. Farscape's just going to end mid-stream.

I think some people see this on the scale of New Line Cinema saying that LotR:Return of the King wouldn't air in theatres. (How much importance you place on both of these is a presonal preference)

Amazing

[Twirlip of the Mists]

So they're hoping and praying for Farscape to pull in a 2 rating? Astounding. Firefly consistently drew around a 2.4, and yet Fux dropped it faster than... a... um... fast dropping thing.

Sorry. I'm having a figurative language problem today. I can do personification and synecdoche, but I can't pull off metaphor or simile. It's like....

Re: Amazing

[Black Parrot]

> Fox thinks it's a real network, and holds the bar a little bit higher than an offbeat cable network like SciFi. The WB would've killed for Firefly's ratings, but Fox needs a bigger pull...

Fox mismanaged Firefly so badly that it's hard not to believe some influential exec wanted it to die. They started by running ads that grossly misrepresented the nature of the program, then they decided not to bother showing the pilot, then, right about the time people's new-season watching habits were starting to solidify they bumped it two weeks in a row for some really crappy Thanksgiving specials, and finally, after announcing that they were going to do a media blitz to try to bump up the ratings when it started showing again, they hardly bothered advertising for it on their own station, let alone any kind of "media blitz".

The only surprise is that anyone bothered watching it regularly at all. More's the shame, because it really was a good show -- but you did have to tune it in regularly and learn a bit about the characters in order to appreciate it.

Farscape will not be renewed and here's why

[loggia]

USA Networks (which owns channels like Sci-Fi and USA) is following the current trend of "own your own shows and make more money."

USA Networks does not own Farscape.

USA would rather pump out garbage like Tremors: The Series, The Dream Team with Anna and Michael and other crap... because they own it and would reap the windfall if the shows become syndicated later on.

Now I did not say this plan makes sense. It doesn't. Disney has tried this with ABC and fallen to the bottom of the ratings heap. Far to the bottom. So much so that they are losing a tremendous amount of money on ABC. How is this better than working with a variety of production companies to create hits and making money the old way? It isn't.

But that is the current wisdom.

Also, USA Networks thinks showing the same programs on USA and Sci-Fi is a good idea and so is showing cheap black-and-white shows that get low ratings.

This is "smart."

Re:What about

[DAldredge]

No. People like Farscape because they did too many drugs while watching the Muppet Show.

Re:Why save it?

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Because Farscape just happens to be THE BEST SCI-FI show ever created!"

No, Doctor Who was the best Scifi show ever created.

Efforts to get that show played on Scifi-Channel would be better rewarded. 25+ years of eps without the derivitive dribble.

Label me a troll if you like, but there's a reason that Farscape's being canned. There's an even better reason why DrW went on for so long.

A Nielsen Point...

[geddes]

A Nielsen point is the percentage of televisions in the US that tuned into the show. So a 2 would mean that 2% of the households with televisions in the united states (or roughly 2 million televisions) had tuned into the show. (More information at the Nielsen FAQ.

For reference, the most popular TV show last week was CSI, followed by Monday Night football. CSI got 13 points, Monday Night Football 11 (data here). So though a 2 isn't blockbuster (the lowest scoring show in the top twenty got a 6), it is still impressive. I don't know if farscape can do it.

Priorities first.

[Anonvmous Coward]

Futurama.

Re:Priorities first.

[NanoGator]

"Priorities first."
"Futurama."

My kingdom for a mod point.

The sets have been destroyed.

[fava]

Not taken down and put into storage but destroyed with chainsaws and taken to the dump. Rebuilding all the sets would be very expensive, the ratings would have to be very good to justify it.

Re:The sets have been destroyed.

[Deffexor]

Actually, Ben Browder (and I think even David Kemper) said himself that the sets were falling apart after 4 seasons and that re-building them from scratch would have been cheaper and faster than trying to salvage them.

Though I agree that they are going to have to pull consistent 2s or higher in the Nielsen ratings to get this series saved. Anyway, I'll be watching. Too bad I don't have a Nielsen box. :(

Re:Why save it?

[entrylevel]

I wouldn't go so far as to say BEST.SCIFI.SHOW.EVER, although how people can compare it to SG-1 is beyond me. "Powering up 100 percent! Captain. sir. Ti'lk, are you OK?" WTF?! Apparently it translates badly from the original whatever-the-hell-language it was originally dubbed in. My loss I guess. (I also don't care much for Anime.)

I much prefer dialog like "You have knowledge of time and the ability unravel events. I should kill you just for that." Does anyone remember that episode? In one scene Crichton gets thrown back to the first day he set foot on Moya, everyone except him is acting exactly the same, with the same camera footage and everything, but he reacts to everything differently. Just when you've had enough of the scene, he turns around, points to the back of his neck, mutters "tongue.", and Dargo wallops him in the back of his neck with his tongue. Then it cuts back to him face down on the island in the void with the Ancient. I thought that was some creative shit. Anyway...

If Farscape goes off the air I think it will be a loss. I'm no Farscape zealot (I'm lots of things, not just Farscape!), but if the SciFi channel cancels it only to replace it with Braveheart (I like the movie and all, but how is it SciFi?) and the X-Files (hello, I saw every good episode 6 times!), they will have just confused away another dedicated viewer. I won't boycott SciFi just for cancelling a cool (IMHO) show, but I can't watch channels whose programming choices give me a headache just trying to comprehend them.

Anyway, I'll watch all the new episodes when they air, or I'll tape them if I'm out. I truly hope anyone who enjoys the show even a little will do the same.

(On a side note: does anyone think Neilsen boxes actually exist (anymore)? Wouldn't it be easier to just put some kind of chip in the TV. I dunno, maybe call it a "V-Chip"?)

Save Enterprise!

[yobbo]

Oh wait it hasn't been cancelled... yet.

Re:Why save it?

[robson]

"kill your television" and live life to its fullest

Yeah, we know what you think, Jonathan... :)

Re:Yes, save Farscape!

[amuro98]

Firefly was doomed from the start.

It aired Friday nights during that awkward summer/fall transition when everyone's either on vacation, or getting re-integrated into school life (eg. parties.)

Fox didn't air the pilot movie which explained who everyone was and what was going on, but instead aired that horrendous episode about the train robbery, which was easily the *worst* episode of the season. I'd heard the pilot movie was supposed to have aired back in December around Christmas (which would have been another brilliant move by Fox...)

Oh yeah, and don't forget about the baseball playoffs, which knocked out a few episodes, depending on where you happen to live.

Officially, Fox says the show is on hiatus until they find a new timeslot for it, but I don't think anyone here would be surprised if Firefly never came back.

They Changed The Time Again

[TTMuskrat]

For those who want to keep trying to Save Farscape, here are some things you should know:

• The new "season" (SciFi's words, even though its still Season 4) starts this Friday, Jan. 10th.
• The time has changed AGAIN. It is now being shown at 8PM EST/PST and 7PM CST

I do believe that SciFi changed Farscape's scheduled viewing hour for the second time this season to further cut down on viewership so the suits could point to even lower Nielsen Ratings as a reason for cancellation.

So, for these next 11 Fridays, tune into SciFi channel for 1 hour, Support 'Scape, and then tune in to another station. :)

Re: TV is dying (was Re:Uh huh)

[Black Parrot]

> I still have hope that television can recover from its great creeping miasma, but that hope is waning fast.

I think the broadcast networks are dead and just don't know it yet. (Or maybe they do know it.) Cable has killed them. You're starting to see informercials during prime time, for Christ's sake. And more and more of the remaining programming is the cheap-to-produce "reality" shite, sitcoms, talk shows, "entertainment" programs that are thinly disguised ads for the music and movie industries, etc., with an ever increasing erotic content to entice casual channel flippers to linger for a while.

In 10 years any of the broadcast networks that still exist will be unrecognizable as what you thought "television" meant when you were a kid.

Sounds like blackmail to me.

[jabber01]

If the next 11 episodes pull the right numbers sounds an awful lot like Jimmy Swaggart's If my ministry doesn't collect 8 Million dollars... of a few years back.

Are TV execs so soul-less as to decide a show's viability by the number of eyeballs they deliver to advertizers, without so much as a moment's consideration for the inherent quality of the show itself? Oh whom am I kidding? Of course. The bastards!

How many avid fans of Shakespeare are there? Of opera and theater in general? Of reading classic books? Even of reading pulp instead of watching soap operas?

It's clear that "Good Taste" is the trait of the minority. Yet, it is utterly shameful that we live in an age where economies of scale and advertizing dollars are the sole drivers of the success of entertainment.

Why must good entertainment be relegated to the relatively well off, and sustained by charitable contributions of the wealthy, while the tripe is sold by the bucket, paid for by people looking to take as much money as possible from anyone gullible enough to not change the channel or walk away every 8 minutes?

Bah! Ok, I'm done. Who's next on the soap-box?

Re:What about

[RockyJSquirel]

Your kind of attitude is what makes the world a shitty place to live in.

You are worthless.

Hmm. This is an example of the sort of attitude that that makes the world wonderful?

I'm not sure if we need a:
"+1 Unintentionally Funny"
mod
or a
"-1 No Clue at all"
mod.

Though to tell the truth, I find your own narrow minded self rightious hostility more depressing than funny.

Rocky J. Squirrel

Brilliant but cancelled

[CleverNickName]

I've heard of this other show that was brought back because of fan reaction and lobbying.

Some Sci-Fi show from the 60s.

Ordinarily, studios just don't listen to audiences, as counter intuitive as that seems, especially today, when most studios are just arms of a gigantic multi-national corporation (that's controlled by the Gnomes of Zurich with help from the girl scouts and the orbital mind control lasers)