Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the do-it-yourself-toll-gate dept.
MC68040 writes "The guy at this site managed to build something together that's actually quite neat in the way he built it, all hand-crafted system that uses a linux box to unlock his door. Maybe not the coolest of solutions, but actually a pretty good idea as for security in my humble opinion."
Re:Slashdot effect (the good, bad, and the FAQ)
by
Hrunting
·
· Score: 2, Offtopic
As for the staff, Slashdot people could email web site admins and ask about their bandwidth/web server. But what if the site owner doesn't read email on the weekends? (that isn't uncommon) What is to be done in that case?
Uh, they wait until they get a response? It's not as if Slashdot is going to get scooped on one of these. Heaven forbid that the editors, with all their journalistic rabidity, actually had to wait to post a story that was probably submitted a week ago.
I agree with the FAQ. Slashdot shouldn't have to mirror the sites, but for all their emphasis on being a community-oriented site, they sure aren't kind to small site owners. CNN, BBCi, C|Net, etc should all be able to handle the traffic. Some rinky-dink virtual site will never be able to handle it, and if the editors can't realize that, maybe they need to turn over their "community-oriented site" to someone more knowledgeable about the community.
Why not -1, Redundant?
by
Adam9
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
This is mentioned in the comments of every article posted for the past few weeks. Either,
a.) RTFF b.) Come up with a legally sound solution and tell the editors about it (no, don't post it then whine about the -1 OT score that would be quickly dished out) c.) Accept the/. effect as Something That Could Happen To You(tm) on the net.
If people have sites on servers that can't withstand a beating, (I'm sure mine would be hit hard but possibly survive) or involve high bandwidth and/or cpu load, then do something smart. Setting a password, or installing mod_throttle and setting it up right would be a start. Otherwise, the idea is that it's open to everyone. Slashdot is usually a metanews site. It doesn't mean it's a mirroring metanews site, it provides links to other sites. Now, if someone sets up a script to grab the links off of frontpage articles, cache them with images for 2 hours then dump it, and throw a banner ad or two on it, then karma whore and FP with the cached link, I have no problem with that. I would in fact welcome it.
Sorry for the rant, but complaining has been going on for weeks. Comments can be categorized by funny, interesting, etc. but they should be unique, not the same crap I see on every article.
Re:Why not -1, Redundant?
by
Planesdragon
·
· Score: 2, Offtopic
Come up with a legally sound solution and tell the editors about it (no, don't post it then whine about the -1 OT score that would be quickly dished out)
"Opt out/. ing"
Anyone with a/.ID can "opt out" of their/. ing. When a file on their TLD gets listed for a good/. ing, the editor gets flagged with a "site will crash" message, which would then pop up the/.er's perferred/. response: either a link to a TLD, up to a twelve hour warning, or a smallish temporary mirror.
Re:Honestly, really
by
KalvinB
·
· Score: 2, Offtopic
My site is running on a 256K DSL connection and survived the beating. Sure it was running at 600bytes per second but I could still access it. People just need to make their pages more bandwidth friendly. From acceptance to front page my story took about a day to be posted. That's plenty of time to rework a page if it's too bulky.
However, if weren't possible to make it bandwidth friendly, Slashdot needs to take advantage of resources out there like their own server or SourceForge and work a deal to use temporary space upon request of the owner of the linked site. The owner could easily package up the relavent portion of the site and e-mail it over to be put up at the temporary location.
If nothing else it would at least eliminate all the stupid "hey look it's slashdotted" posts.
Currently, Slashdot is just a link site with commentary. If it's keeps killing all it's stories it's going to be a pretty irrelevent link site at that.
Current Page Text
by
Kaz+Riprock
·
· Score: 2, Offtopic
This used to be an interesting page about the barcode scanner door entry system I built with Python and Linux. I posted this page because I'd like to share my project with others. I've answered emails giving people circuit diagrams, and I've had various online discussions about my design decisions. Now MC68040 and michael@slashdot.org decide that it's time for me to go down. They didn't ask me if they could link; they didn't ask if I'd like to put up a mirror somewhere else. At least michael-the-slashdot-editor knew that I'd be down in minutes if he made a link.
I'd love to put this page back up, and maybe in several days I'll remember to do so. If you're interested in interfacing Linux with serial devices or electric door strikes, drop me an email at drewp@bigasterisk.com.
Bitter?
-- Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
Re:Current Page Text
by
Winterblink
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
Wouldn't you be?
-- "I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Of course, most of the time, the commercial sites that actually have income from banner ads easily withstand the Slashdot Effect. So perhaps we could draw the line at sites that don't have ads. They are, after all, much more likely to buckle under the pressure of all those unexpected hits. But what happens if I cache the site, and they update themselves? Once again, I'm transmitting data that I shouldn't be, only this time my cache is out of date!
Who cares? For them to get noticed on Slashdot, the interesting bits will still appear in the cache. Also, having the content cached doesn't mean that a link to the original site couldn't still be provided.
I could try asking permission, but do you want to wait 6 hours for a cool breaking story while we wait for permission to link someone?
Bullshit. If I want "breaking news", I go to CNN. I can't remember the last time I read a Slashdot article where the content of the article was time sensitive. It's just casual information to entertain and maybe educate the bored geek. Six hours is nothing. By the time Slashdot gets the news, it's already out in the open. It's not like they're going to get scooped.
Not inconceivable, but I don't really think it's worth the work. Most of the sites that are Slashdotted are prepared for it, and the sites that get smashed usually are caught completely off guard; they wouldn't know of this mysterious opt-out meta tag. (See also Caching Slashdot Stories).
So if the site doesn't have the magical opt-out tag or extra instruction tag, then fire up your e-mail client and get permission. Or just cache it and be done with it.
People who put up websites should recognize that people are going to look at it. Sometimes, a lot of people might look at it, as a result of a link from Slashdot or any of hundreds of other sites. People who bitch and moan about being linked to from Slashdot remind me of the companies who whine when people link to "confidential" webpages -- guess what, if it's on the web, it's not confidential.
The point is that it would be a decent thing for Slashdot to provide some mechanism to minimize the inconvenience caused by having a site or page linked on the front page. The points listed in the FAQ are weak. The bottom line is that some sort of cacheing would benefit both the owners of the content being linked (it wouldn't nuke their site) and the readers of Slashdot (no more seeing a cool story on Slashdot only to have to wait to read it because the Slashdot effective is already underway).
Truth be told, there is already an informal Slashdot cache -- you often see kind users copying the meat of the page into a comment which always gets modded up to +5. Further proof that an official Slashdot cache would be well received.
The only real argument against a cache would be the load that it would place on the Slashdot servers. They are tuned to handle their current content, but I wonder if they would be able to handle the load of serving up all that extra content in addition to the stuff that they already do.
Re:Slashdot effect (the good, bad, and the FAQ)
by
Fastolfe
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
What if they have banners they rely on for $$$? What if their site is based on php and some of the important information is pulled from a database?
Standard HTTP headers reflect the "cachability" of every HTTP resource available on the web. Static pages that never change and don't carry personalized information do not have to be served up by the same server for every request. An HTTP proxy detects this based on HTTP headers that come with the page and will cache these pages for the benefit of those downstream.
Further, 'iframe's or dynamic content should be expressing appropriate cache control headers to prevent only those resources from being cached, or for those pieces of dynamic content that may only change every few minutes, that those resources be cached until the next update is scheduled.
A mirror still isn't out of the question here, despite the excuses in the FAQ. Take an HTTP caching proxy, put a "mirrors.slashdot.org" face on it, and this problem is solved.
Re:Slashdot effect (the good, bad, and the FAQ)
by
Fastolfe
·
· Score: 2, Offtopic
I agree with the fact that Slashdot shouldn't have to mirror sites. I think most of their excuses as to why they don't are fairly absurd, though. This problem can be solved in a site-friendly, banner-ad-friendly and legal-friendly way through the use of run-of-the-mill HTTP proxies.
But however that goes, Slashdot really does need to be a little friendlier towards site operators when it's fairly clear up front that their site probably won't handle the traffic.
For the record, I've had news sites (e.g. MSNBC) do a story that involved some piece of content on my site, and generally, they ask my permission first, checking that I'm OK with it and that my servers can handle it. If they can take a few moments to do this, surely Slashdot can as well.
The banter back and forth about the slashdot effect is interesting -- but here is a more interesting point:
Slashdot is going to get sued for this.
At some point they are going to slashdot a commercial site which will, as usual, lose a lot of revenue.
In the petition to the court, the plaintiffs will note, correctly, that slashdot has been negligent in not contacting the site.
Slashdot's only defense will be "but we didn't want to wait six hours to contact them" as per their FAQ.
The plaintiffs will then point out that this has been a repeated, flagrent and eggregarious behaviour to multiple sites, that slashdot's members had pointed this out to them repeatedly, that posts had quoted entire sites to avoid this, that they had received previous complaints, and that slashdot's defense was just that they didn't want to bother waiting to contact the site.
One time would have been unfortunate, but the plaintiffs will be able to prove a pattern of conduct.
Slashdot will lose a large, large sum of money in the near future.
You don't have to be Kreskin to predict this one dead on. Note this, and check back to this post in a couple of years.
EDITORS: PLEASE FORWARD TO LEGAL.
--
The baby's fine -- please stop sending business cards.
Re:What A Beautiful Mind
by
tacocat
·
· Score: 2, Offtopic
I'll be forty in two months
Are you expecting me to stop posting to/. in two months? Am I allowed to do cool shit anymore?
This is just my opinion, I don't expect to change the world with it, but who knows. (Also note, I'm a really bad typist!)
As a regular/. reader who is NOT a programmer, IT professional, or computational fluid dynamics engineer, I see the slash as an icon of everything "geek", open source, science, and opinion. (I'm sure just about everyone here sees and respects this site in the sam way.) All of it in a positive way! I'm just an artist (yes, I come from the shallow end of the gene-pool) who really enjoys this stuff.
But the/. effect is starting to go too far, and to me, it's a matter of respect. For the most part, those who crash from/. are us little guys. I feel that/. represents all the movements I mentioned above, and now I'm starting to loose that respect for it. Not everyone in the world thinks the same way, and to respect how other people do things is the first step in getting, and keeping, respect for the same things you represent. If posting a page on your site about science, opensource, tech, whatever, is going to cause a server-frenzy, migraine headaches, and unlcers, people are just going to stop, and maybe even start revolting. (I know, harsh word!) Image is everything, and my image of open source/science/tech is starting to get ugly because of the/. effect.
Though, I know my websites could withstand a good/.ing, (bring it on!) this is also a matter of cost. We small guys PAY for bandwidth out of our own pockets. (Thos of us who refuse to use advertiser-laden freebies!) We know that, in general, we're not going to get a million hits. We're not after a million hits. Gee, wouldn't it be funny if/. was held financially responsible for the EXTREMELY excessive badwidth it is known for? (I'm sure we could all find a lawyer that would take that case, it's your historic actions, readers and paying members that cause the expense!)
In a perfect world, everyone would be on unix/apache, have unlimited bandwidth, and not a care in the world. But it's time that/. starts to respect those that don't think like they do, otherwise, how do you expect to get the respect you deserve for the things you respresent. ("Gee, if I use linux, will i crash my friend's computer if I try communicating with them because they use windows..."Joe Computeruser) The world doesn't have the intelligence/expertice that the average viewer here has. But we far outnumber you.
So,/., rethink, reflect, RESPECT.
(soap box destroyed)
Re:Honestly, really
by
arkhan_jg
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
I've finally come to a decision. I'm going to use.htaccess to block links to my site from fark and slashdot - because my site will probably survive the slashdot, but my wallet won't.
I've run my personal website for the last 8 years. It's hosted on a good webhost, with fairly standard TOS, i.e. I have to pay penalty fees when my bandwidth exceeds my monthly allowance. I have no ads on my site, I don't sell anything, so it all comes out of my own pocket, and frankly, I can live without the several hundred pounds worth of penalty I'll have to cough up..
Here's my answers to some possible comments:
'it's on the web, you should expect to be linked'. Fine. I get 200 odd regular visitors, I know of several dozen links to my site. That's fair enough, in fact I like it. But there is a difference between a link that drives a little traffic to your site, and a LOT of traffic.
To draw a parallel, I invite my friends round to park outside my house when visiting, which is fine. It doesn't work if they bring 10,000 mates unexpectedly, and to whine about 'freedom of the internet' doesn't mitigate the damage that is knowingly done to smalltime hosters.
'just buy more bandwidth'.
Err. I use about 1/5 to a 1/4 of my available monthly bandwidth. I've never gone over 1/2. Why should I pay substantially higher hosting changes all the time, just for that one time someone decides my site has something funny/interesting/controverial on it enough to be worth sharing with 10,000 people at once? My site is a labour of love, not a paid-for commercial or public service.
'host it on your own link, then you won't have penalty charges'
Broadband only hit my area a few months ago. But frankly, I'm not going to switch to hosting my own because of the hassle of having a box up 24/7/365 plus the fire risk of running a server unattended at home, is too great - even though I've certainly got the skills to do so. (Linux admin is part of my job). Remote hosting is cheap, after all. Again, why should I have to go to the effort of having a hardened server setup up just in case it gets slashdotted?
Far as I'm concerned, it would be a matter of courtesy to cache ANY non major site, ESPECIALLY those without advertising. Google manages it, web proxy servers manage it without legal problems.
I honestly cannot see that cacheing a site that doesn't want to be cached is any greater of a legal risk than the risk that slashdot will get sued for DOS'ing a website.
Plus, slashdot would be a far better site if half the links posted weren't netdead before the 5th comment is posted!
But until slashdot, and it's kin, take action to mitigate the damage they do, they will not be welcome to link to my site.
-- Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
Blocking access better than Slashdot style
by
linux11
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
A while back, CmdrTaco recommended a URL for AvantGo users to use to read Slashdot with. So, I add it to my AvantGo list. Look below to see what I get as my Slashdot channel in AvantGo now.
Similar to the barcode door situation website, Slashdot has choosen to ban access. Unlike the barcode door situation website, Slashdot was aware of interest by AvantGo users to "link" to Slashdot and even RECOMMENDED it to AvantGo users.
Most of the claims below do not apply to AvantGo. The AvantGo servers put a 200K cap download per channel which limits the usefulness to try to use AvantGo to perform DDoS attacks. Anyone that has used AvantGo knows it's unlikely that someone would try to use it's limited interface to post at all including attempting to formulate a post to break brower rendering. And while AvantGo is a proxy server, anyone that has used it also knows that it doesn't act like a "normal human" because it is used for offline reading. So, CmdrTaco recommended AvantGo use for reading Slashdot knowing it is an offline reader proxy and then puts up a bunch of unrelated excuses why he is blocking it. And, btw, the "proxy administrator" (anotherwords, AvantGo) could care less if Slashdot blocks it. The contact the proxy administrator to get access back to something that CmdrTaco recommended using is pure bull-dung.
I think Drew is handling the barcode door website issue much better. At least the ban explaination page is to the point why the ban was needed instead of the CmdrTaco core dump of unrelated excuses for blocking AvantGo.
Anyways, the Slashdot channel via AvantGo is as follows:
Either your network or ip address has been banned from this site
due to script flooding that originated from your network or ip address -- or this IP might have been used to post comments designed to break web browser rendering. If you feel that this is unwarranted, feel free to include your IP address (64.157.224.70) in the subject of an email, and we will examine why there is a ban. If you fail to include the IP address (again, in the Subject!), then your message will be deleted and ignored. I mean come on, we're good, we're not psychic.
Since you can't read the FAQ because you're banned, here's the relevant portion:
Why is my IP banned?
- Perhaps you are running some sort of program that loaded thousands of Slashdot Pages. We have limited resources here and are fairly protective of them. We need to make sure that everyone shares. If your IP loads thousands of pages in a day, you will likely be banned. Please note that many proxy servers load large quanitites of pages, but we can usually distinguish between proxy servers being used by humans, and IPs running software that is hammering our servers.
- Your IP might have been used to perform some sort of denial of service attack against Slashdot. These range from simple programs that just load a lot of pages, to programs that attempt to coordinate an avalanche of posts in the forums (often through misconfigurated "Open Relay" proxy servers).
- You might be using a proxy server that is also being used by another person who did something from the above list. You should have your proxy server administrator contact us.
- Your IP might have been used to post comments designed to break web browser rendering.
Answered by: CmdrTaco Last Modified: 7/02/02
How do I get an IP Unbanned?
Email banned@slashdot.org. Make sure to include the IP in question, and any other pertinent information. If you are connecting through a proxy server, you might need to have your proxy server's admin contact us instead of you.
Would I be willing to wait 6 hours on a 'cool breaking story'?
In a word: YES!
Most news on Slashdot is NOT BREAKING. If I didn't hear about barcode keys until tomorrow, or Wednesday, or next bloody MONTH for that matter, my life is not going to be significantly impacted.
When was the last time you saw a Slashdot story that you just absolutely had to read RIGHT THEN? There have been a few over the years (and I've been reading since close to the beginning; my number is so high because I didn't bother getting an account for six months or so after they started registrations.) There are occasional bits of 'breaking news' that make it here, but they're not nearly as common as the editors seem to think.
Slashdot, I think you are ignoring/abusing a responsbility here. You have the net equivalent of an Uzi; almost any small site you point to is going to die. Yes, the solution to the problem is tricky and would require some real thought and effort to implement. But you have had YEARS to think about this; I don't think 'it's hard!' is an adequate excuse anymore. Your other FAQ reasons are, in my opinion, fluff. The REAL reason is because it's hard, and I don't think that washes anymore.
If you actually DO have a breaking story, you always have the option of linking it directly. But if I have to wait an extra day before hearing about barcoded house keys, well.... I imagine I'll cope. Somehow.
Enough is enough. It's time to get started on some kind of caching system. If you're really lost, call Google. They're geeks. Many of them probably read this site, and I'll bet most would at least talk to you about the problem free of charge. If you want to start a discussion list on the project, I'll be happy to join and help as much as I can.
This is a problem that really needs to be solved, and I'm sure that many of us are ready and willing to help solve it.
Re:Honestly, really
by
sbaker
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
I emailed Cmdr Taco to suggest that he re-visit the idea of a META tag that says "Slashdot: Please Mirror Me" (and yes - I've now read the FAQ which contains a response to my META suggestion).
Rob Malda said:
> There are already tags in place to do exactly what you want. Research > http authentication. There are many ways to prevent people you don't > know from reading your site.
So his solution is that I should shut everyone I don't know out of my web site?!?
Well, *THAT* helps a lot!!
Sheesh!
The FAQ basically claims that the META solution won't work because not enough people use it.
1) If the story submission entry page explained the META mechanism
then people who submitted stories about their own sites could
defend themselves in advance.
2) If the editors were sensitive to the issue they could use their
good judgement to delay posting the story until the owner of the
site has had a chance to defend themselves with the META tag.
They'd only have to do that when the story is not hot breaking
news - and when it's a link to a small company or individual.
No need to mirror CNN, BBC, etc.
3) Making a big deal of the new META feature on Slashdot would get
the news out to a large percentage of the people who build
digital door knobs, beowulf clusters of TRS-80's and backyard
rollercoasters.
It's time for Slashdot to step up to the plate and not inflict DDOS attacks on the very people who provide the content that they report on.
-- www.sjbaker.org
Re:Slashdot effect (the good, bad, and the FAQ)
by
pi_rules
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
For the record, I've had news sites (e.g. MSNBC) do a story that involved some piece of content on my site, and generally, they ask my permission first, checking that I'm OK with it and that my servers can handle it. If they can take a few moments to do this, surely Slashdot can as well.
MSNBC has some semblence of journalistic integrity too... I'd imagine they actually do a -bit- of research before posting their stories. We all know Slashdot doesn't. Why would Slashdot take a courtesy clue from them?
Editors: 'Cmon, you're from West Michigan, not NYC! Have a little bit of courtsey and start using some common sense here. Yes, I've read the FAQ many times. No, it doesn't make s single bit of friggen sense, especially now that Google does exactly what you're saying is bad.
Crikey.
Re:Let's be frickin' realistic...
by
cybermace5
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
Right.
Someday I may be slashdotted, and my provider is probably not going to withstand it (I have shell access, and can see that my site is hosted on a Cobalt with about 150 other sites).
The slashdot FAQ's excuse "well, do you want to wait six hours for a cool breaking story while we ask permission?" is just ludicrous. This guy's site was obviously going to be there for a long time, it wasn't a breaking-news item by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, most sites that end up Slashdotted are just this type. The major breaking news stories are all hosted on servers that should be able to take a Slashdotting. The "look what I did in my garage" stories are not time-sensitive and just aren't set up for crushing traffic.
I've noticed an overall sense of degeneration on slashdot for quite a while. No one's complaints are ever taken into consideration: there is a problem with repeat posts. Most of us recognize a repost within seconds of reading it. Either the editors have sub-average memory retention, or they don't read slashdot. And what's with Cliff? Nothing happens on Ask for a week, then suddenly there are 20 stories, all of them complete crap.
I seriously have been surfing slashdot less. I find that I get more interesting news and articles on Google. The only thing that keeps me around slashdot is the community. And if enough of us get tired of having complaints and obvious solutions go unanswered, there won't be a community either.
Slashdot Mirror
As for the staff, Slashdot people could email web site admins and ask about their bandwidth/web server. But what if the site owner doesn't read email on the weekends? (that isn't uncommon) What is to be done in that case?
Uh, they wait until they get a response? It's not as if Slashdot is going to get scooped on one of these. Heaven forbid that the editors, with all their journalistic rabidity, actually had to wait to post a story that was probably submitted a week ago.
I agree with the FAQ. Slashdot shouldn't have to mirror the sites, but for all their emphasis on being a community-oriented site, they sure aren't kind to small site owners. CNN, BBCi, C|Net, etc should all be able to handle the traffic. Some rinky-dink virtual site will never be able to handle it, and if the editors can't realize that, maybe they need to turn over their "community-oriented site" to someone more knowledgeable about the community.
This is mentioned in the comments of every article posted for the past few weeks. Either,
/. effect as Something That Could Happen To You(tm) on the net.
a.) RTFF
b.) Come up with a legally sound solution and tell the editors about it (no, don't post it then whine about the -1 OT score that would be quickly dished out)
c.) Accept the
If people have sites on servers that can't withstand a beating, (I'm sure mine would be hit hard but possibly survive) or involve high bandwidth and/or cpu load, then do something smart. Setting a password, or installing mod_throttle and setting it up right would be a start. Otherwise, the idea is that it's open to everyone. Slashdot is usually a metanews site. It doesn't mean it's a mirroring metanews site, it provides links to other sites. Now, if someone sets up a script to grab the links off of frontpage articles, cache them with images for 2 hours then dump it, and throw a banner ad or two on it, then karma whore and FP with the cached link, I have no problem with that. I would in fact welcome it.
Sorry for the rant, but complaining has been going on for weeks. Comments can be categorized by funny, interesting, etc. but they should be unique, not the same crap I see on every article.
My site is running on a 256K DSL connection and survived the beating. Sure it was running at 600bytes per second but I could still access it. People just need to make their pages more bandwidth friendly. From acceptance to front page my story took about a day to be posted. That's plenty of time to rework a page if it's too bulky.
However, if weren't possible to make it bandwidth friendly, Slashdot needs to take advantage of resources out there like their own server or SourceForge and work a deal to use temporary space upon request of the owner of the linked site. The owner could easily package up the relavent portion of the site and e-mail it over to be put up at the temporary location.
If nothing else it would at least eliminate all the stupid "hey look it's slashdotted" posts.
Currently, Slashdot is just a link site with commentary. If it's keeps killing all it's stories it's going to be a pretty irrelevent link site at that.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
This used to be an interesting page about the barcode scanner door entry system I built with Python and Linux. I posted this page because I'd like to share my project with others. I've answered emails giving people circuit diagrams, and I've had various online discussions about my design decisions.
Now MC68040 and michael@slashdot.org decide that it's time for me to go down. They didn't ask me if they could link; they didn't ask if I'd like to put up a mirror somewhere else. At least michael-the-slashdot-editor knew that I'd be down in minutes if he made a link.
I'd love to put this page back up, and maybe in several days I'll remember to do so. If you're interested in interfacing Linux with serial devices or electric door strikes, drop me an email at drewp@bigasterisk.com.
Bitter?
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
Who cares? For them to get noticed on Slashdot, the interesting bits will still appear in the cache. Also, having the content cached doesn't mean that a link to the original site couldn't still be provided.
Bullshit. If I want "breaking news", I go to CNN. I can't remember the last time I read a Slashdot article where the content of the article was time sensitive. It's just casual information to entertain and maybe educate the bored geek. Six hours is nothing. By the time Slashdot gets the news, it's already out in the open. It's not like they're going to get scooped.
So if the site doesn't have the magical opt-out tag or extra instruction tag, then fire up your e-mail client and get permission. Or just cache it and be done with it.
The point is that it would be a decent thing for Slashdot to provide some mechanism to minimize the inconvenience caused by having a site or page linked on the front page. The points listed in the FAQ are weak. The bottom line is that some sort of cacheing would benefit both the owners of the content being linked (it wouldn't nuke their site) and the readers of Slashdot (no more seeing a cool story on Slashdot only to have to wait to read it because the Slashdot effective is already underway).
Truth be told, there is already an informal Slashdot cache -- you often see kind users copying the meat of the page into a comment which always gets modded up to +5. Further proof that an official Slashdot cache would be well received.
The only real argument against a cache would be the load that it would place on the Slashdot servers. They are tuned to handle their current content, but I wonder if they would be able to handle the load of serving up all that extra content in addition to the stuff that they already do.
What if they have banners they rely on for $$$? What if their site is based on php and some of the important information is pulled from a database?
Standard HTTP headers reflect the "cachability" of every HTTP resource available on the web. Static pages that never change and don't carry personalized information do not have to be served up by the same server for every request. An HTTP proxy detects this based on HTTP headers that come with the page and will cache these pages for the benefit of those downstream.
Further, 'iframe's or dynamic content should be expressing appropriate cache control headers to prevent only those resources from being cached, or for those pieces of dynamic content that may only change every few minutes, that those resources be cached until the next update is scheduled.
A mirror still isn't out of the question here, despite the excuses in the FAQ. Take an HTTP caching proxy, put a "mirrors.slashdot.org" face on it, and this problem is solved.
I agree with the fact that Slashdot shouldn't have to mirror sites. I think most of their excuses as to why they don't are fairly absurd, though. This problem can be solved in a site-friendly, banner-ad-friendly and legal-friendly way through the use of run-of-the-mill HTTP proxies.
But however that goes, Slashdot really does need to be a little friendlier towards site operators when it's fairly clear up front that their site probably won't handle the traffic.
For the record, I've had news sites (e.g. MSNBC) do a story that involved some piece of content on my site, and generally, they ask my permission first, checking that I'm OK with it and that my servers can handle it. If they can take a few moments to do this, surely Slashdot can as well.
The banter back and forth about the slashdot effect is interesting -- but here is a more interesting point:
Slashdot is going to get sued for this.
At some point they are going to slashdot a commercial site which will, as usual, lose a lot of revenue.
In the petition to the court, the plaintiffs will note, correctly, that slashdot has been negligent in not contacting the site.
Slashdot's only defense will be "but we didn't want to wait six hours to contact them" as per their FAQ.
The plaintiffs will then point out that this has been a repeated, flagrent and eggregarious behaviour to multiple sites, that slashdot's members had pointed this out to them repeatedly, that posts had quoted entire sites to avoid this, that they had received previous complaints, and that slashdot's defense was just that they didn't want to bother waiting to contact the site.
One time would have been unfortunate, but the plaintiffs will be able to prove a pattern of conduct.
Slashdot will lose a large, large sum of money in the near future.
You don't have to be Kreskin to predict this one dead on. Note this, and check back to this post in a couple of years.
EDITORS: PLEASE FORWARD TO LEGAL.
The baby's fine -- please stop sending business cards.
I'll be forty in two months
Are you expecting me to stop posting to /. in two months? Am I allowed to do cool shit anymore?
What is this place? Logan's run?
This is just my opinion, I don't expect to change the world with it, but who knows. (Also note, I'm a really bad typist!)
/. reader who is NOT a programmer, IT professional, or computational fluid dynamics engineer, I see the slash as an icon of everything "geek", open source, science, and opinion. (I'm sure just about everyone here sees and respects this site in the sam way.) All of it in a positive way! I'm just an artist (yes, I come from the shallow end of the gene-pool) who really enjoys this stuff.
/. effect is starting to go too far, and to me, it's a matter of respect. For the most part, those who crash from /. are us little guys. I feel that /. represents all the movements I mentioned above, and now I'm starting to loose that respect for it. Not everyone in the world thinks the same way, and to respect how other people do things is the first step in getting, and keeping, respect for the same things you represent. If posting a page on your site about science, opensource, tech, whatever, is going to cause a server-frenzy, migraine headaches, and unlcers, people are just going to stop, and maybe even start revolting. (I know, harsh word!) Image is everything, and my image of open source/science/tech is starting to get ugly because of the /. effect.
/.ing, (bring it on!) this is also a matter of cost. We small guys PAY for bandwidth out of our own pockets. (Thos of us who refuse to use advertiser-laden freebies!) We know that, in general, we're not going to get a million hits. We're not after a million hits. Gee, wouldn't it be funny if /. was held financially responsible for the EXTREMELY excessive badwidth it is known for? (I'm sure we could all find a lawyer that would take that case, it's your historic actions, readers and paying members that cause the expense!)
/. starts to respect those that don't think like they do, otherwise, how do you expect to get the respect you deserve for the things you respresent. ("Gee, if I use linux, will i crash my friend's computer if I try communicating with them because they use windows..."Joe Computeruser) The world doesn't have the intelligence/expertice that the average viewer here has. But we far outnumber you.
/., rethink, reflect, RESPECT.
As a regular
But the
Though, I know my websites could withstand a good
In a perfect world, everyone would be on unix/apache, have unlimited bandwidth, and not a care in the world. But it's time that
So,
(soap box destroyed)
I've run my personal website for the last 8 years. It's hosted on a good webhost, with fairly standard TOS, i.e. I have to pay penalty fees when my bandwidth exceeds my monthly allowance. I have no ads on my site, I don't sell anything, so it all comes out of my own pocket, and frankly, I can live without the several hundred pounds worth of penalty I'll have to cough up..
Here's my answers to some possible comments:
'it's on the web, you should expect to be linked'.
Fine. I get 200 odd regular visitors, I know of several dozen links to my site. That's fair enough, in fact I like it. But there is a difference between a link that drives a little traffic to your site, and a LOT of traffic.
To draw a parallel, I invite my friends round to park outside my house when visiting, which is fine. It doesn't work if they bring 10,000 mates unexpectedly, and to whine about 'freedom of the internet' doesn't mitigate the damage that is knowingly done to smalltime hosters.
'just buy more bandwidth'.
Err. I use about 1/5 to a 1/4 of my available monthly bandwidth. I've never gone over 1/2. Why should I pay substantially higher hosting changes all the time, just for that one time someone decides my site has something funny/interesting/controverial on it enough to be worth sharing with 10,000 people at once? My site is a labour of love, not a paid-for commercial or public service.
'host it on your own link, then you won't have penalty charges'
Broadband only hit my area a few months ago. But frankly, I'm not going to switch to hosting my own because of the hassle of having a box up 24/7/365 plus the fire risk of running a server unattended at home, is too great - even though I've certainly got the skills to do so. (Linux admin is part of my job). Remote hosting is cheap, after all. Again, why should I have to go to the effort of having a hardened server setup up just in case it gets slashdotted?
Far as I'm concerned, it would be a matter of courtesy to cache ANY non major site, ESPECIALLY those without advertising. Google manages it, web proxy servers manage it without legal problems.
I honestly cannot see that cacheing a site that doesn't want to be cached is any greater of a legal risk than the risk that slashdot will get sued for DOS'ing a website.
Plus, slashdot would be a far better site if half the links posted weren't netdead before the 5th comment is posted!
But until slashdot, and it's kin, take action to mitigate the damage they do, they will not be welcome to link to my site.
Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
Similar to the barcode door situation website, Slashdot has choosen to ban access. Unlike the barcode door situation website, Slashdot was aware of interest by AvantGo users to "link" to Slashdot and even RECOMMENDED it to AvantGo users.
Most of the claims below do not apply to AvantGo. The AvantGo servers put a 200K cap download per channel which limits the usefulness to try to use AvantGo to perform DDoS attacks. Anyone that has used AvantGo knows it's unlikely that someone would try to use it's limited interface to post at all including attempting to formulate a post to break brower rendering. And while AvantGo is a proxy server, anyone that has used it also knows that it doesn't act like a "normal human" because it is used for offline reading. So, CmdrTaco recommended AvantGo use for reading Slashdot knowing it is an offline reader proxy and then puts up a bunch of unrelated excuses why he is blocking it. And, btw, the "proxy administrator" (anotherwords, AvantGo) could care less if Slashdot blocks it. The contact the proxy administrator to get access back to something that CmdrTaco recommended using is pure bull-dung.
I think Drew is handling the barcode door website issue much better. At least the ban explaination page is to the point why the ban was needed instead of the CmdrTaco core dump of unrelated excuses for blocking AvantGo.
Anyways, the Slashdot channel via AvantGo is as follows:
Would I be willing to wait 6 hours on a 'cool breaking story'?
In a word: YES!
Most news on Slashdot is NOT BREAKING. If I didn't hear about barcode keys until tomorrow, or Wednesday, or next bloody MONTH for that matter, my life is not going to be significantly impacted.
When was the last time you saw a Slashdot story that you just absolutely had to read RIGHT THEN? There have been a few over the years (and I've been reading since close to the beginning; my number is so high because I didn't bother getting an account for six months or so after they started registrations.) There are occasional bits of 'breaking news' that make it here, but they're not nearly as common as the editors seem to think.
Slashdot, I think you are ignoring/abusing a responsbility here. You have the net equivalent of an Uzi; almost any small site you point to is going to die. Yes, the solution to the problem is tricky and would require some real thought and effort to implement. But you have had YEARS to think about this; I don't think 'it's hard!' is an adequate excuse anymore. Your other FAQ reasons are, in my opinion, fluff. The REAL reason is because it's hard, and I don't think that washes anymore.
If you actually DO have a breaking story, you always have the option of linking it directly. But if I have to wait an extra day before hearing about barcoded house keys, well.... I imagine I'll cope. Somehow.
Enough is enough. It's time to get started on some kind of caching system. If you're really lost, call Google. They're geeks. Many of them probably read this site, and I'll bet most would at least talk to you about the problem free of charge. If you want to start a discussion list on the project, I'll be happy to join and help as much as I can.
This is a problem that really needs to be solved, and I'm sure that many of us are ready and willing to help solve it.
I emailed Cmdr Taco to suggest that he re-visit the idea of
a META tag that says "Slashdot: Please Mirror Me" (and yes - I've now read
the FAQ which contains a response to my META suggestion).
Rob Malda said:
> There are already tags in place to do exactly what you want. Research
> http authentication. There are many ways to prevent people you don't
> know from reading your site.
So his solution is that I should shut everyone I don't know out of
my web site?!?
Well, *THAT* helps a lot!!
Sheesh!
The FAQ basically claims that the META solution won't work because
not enough people use it.
1) If the story submission entry page explained the META mechanism
then people who submitted stories about their own sites could
defend themselves in advance.
2) If the editors were sensitive to the issue they could use their
good judgement to delay posting the story until the owner of the
site has had a chance to defend themselves with the META tag.
They'd only have to do that when the story is not hot breaking
news - and when it's a link to a small company or individual.
No need to mirror CNN, BBC, etc.
3) Making a big deal of the new META feature on Slashdot would get
the news out to a large percentage of the people who build
digital door knobs, beowulf clusters of TRS-80's and backyard
rollercoasters.
It's time for Slashdot to step up to the plate and not inflict DDOS
attacks on the very people who provide the content that they
report on.
www.sjbaker.org
For the record, I've had news sites (e.g. MSNBC) do a story that involved some piece of content on my site, and generally, they ask my permission first, checking that I'm OK with it and that my servers can handle it. If they can take a few moments to do this, surely Slashdot can as well.
MSNBC has some semblence of journalistic integrity too... I'd imagine they actually do a -bit- of research before posting their stories. We all know Slashdot doesn't. Why would Slashdot take a courtesy clue from them?
Editors: 'Cmon, you're from West Michigan, not NYC! Have a little bit of courtsey and start using some common sense here. Yes, I've read the FAQ many times. No, it doesn't make s single bit of friggen sense, especially now that Google does exactly what you're saying is bad.
Crikey.
Right.
Someday I may be slashdotted, and my provider is probably not going to withstand it (I have shell access, and can see that my site is hosted on a Cobalt with about 150 other sites).
The slashdot FAQ's excuse "well, do you want to wait six hours for a cool breaking story while we ask permission?" is just ludicrous. This guy's site was obviously going to be there for a long time, it wasn't a breaking-news item by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, most sites that end up Slashdotted are just this type. The major breaking news stories are all hosted on servers that should be able to take a Slashdotting. The "look what I did in my garage" stories are not time-sensitive and just aren't set up for crushing traffic.
I've noticed an overall sense of degeneration on slashdot for quite a while. No one's complaints are ever taken into consideration: there is a problem with repeat posts. Most of us recognize a repost within seconds of reading it. Either the editors have sub-average memory retention, or they don't read slashdot. And what's with Cliff? Nothing happens on Ask for a week, then suddenly there are 20 stories, all of them complete crap.
I seriously have been surfing slashdot less. I find that I get more interesting news and articles on Google. The only thing that keeps me around slashdot is the community. And if enough of us get tired of having complaints and obvious solutions go unanswered, there won't be a community either.
...