Slashdot Mirror
Review Of GM's HyWire Hydrogen Concept Car
SanLouBlues writes "Autoweek has a detailed review of a test drive in GM's HyWire concept (second item). The gas and brakes are both on the steering wheel which may be placed on either the left or the right with little effort. Overall some very positive marks for such a radical car."
Chicken feces is the future of fuel.
Chickens: Pets, Food, Feathers for Pillows and Feces for FUEL!
As hybrid vehicles go, the Gas/Electric hybrids like Toyota's Prius are cool. They also feel like you're driving a cardboard box.
Diesel has made much more progress in the past few years as far as an efficient fuel than gas. Try on the Turbo-charged VW Diesel Jetta for a great drive w/ superb miles to the gallon.
A marriage between these technologies is a great deal for the auto industry, the environment and everything else. The one question is $.
Will the manufacturers be able to bring the price down far enough to entice Soccer Moms everywhere that their SUV can be environmentally friendly and fuel efficient?
Governments could offer serious incentives to consumers in the area of tax credits for purchasing such vehicles. Hell, I'd buy one if the deal was sweet enough.
And more importantly, where's the hydrogen-distributing power stations? And even more importantly, where's the cheap and plentiful hydrogen production mechanism?
Hydrogen hybrid cars are all well and nice, but they don't get us anywhere. At the moment the only ways to produce hydrogen are expensive and inefficient, and end up costing more "regular" energy (usually provided by fossil fuels or nuclear power) to produce. Electrolysis is good to play with in the physics labs at school, but when it comes to produce very large quantities of Hydrogen for mass consumption it's worth practically zero.
I read a while ago in New Scientist that some group in Japan was trying to use a solar-pumped laser in a satellite to convert large quantities of salt water (in a big tank on an island) with an added catalyst, into hydrogen. That's the sort of news which are worth noting when it comes to cleaner fuels. Once hydrogen is available in every gas station, oil will die off naturally. Until hydrogen can be produced cheaply and in very large quantities, there's not going to be hydrogen in gas stations, and all these hybrid efforts are just lip service to make Sunday Ecologists feel better about themselves, so presenting this sort of news as a notable even in the move towards cleaner fuels is like saying "Microsoft issues a new patch for IIS, saves the internet from script kiddies".
Daniel
Carpe Diem
"The driver operates the brakes very intuitively by automatically tightening the hand grips in a braking situation,"
That's about the only part of this configuration I have a problem with. Frequently, you tighten your grip when on a bumpy road, tenseness, whatever. Having that be the braking signal may not be what you want at that time.
I've been following this thing from some time.
Quick points:
- You can't really 'skin' it. Yes, the shells are interchangeable, but at the factory. A home user bolting on one of these in his/her garage is opening up all sorts of safety concerns.
- Yeah, it's Hydrogen, but it's not gonna blow up. Certainly not as dangerous as the tank of gas in your car. Go read the Wired article if you want details. It's not a rolling Hindenberg.
- The wheels can pivot in any direction, which is why the steering is different. No more parallel-parking mishaps, hopefully.
- They are still more expensive than regular cars, price- and energy-wise, but the trend is looking quite hopeful.
- The space-savings inside the car itself are remarkable, and allow for all sorts of kooky things, such as a floor-to-ceiling windshield. (how weird would that be on the highway?)
- The HyWire is a concept. They won't all be 'ugly'. The whole thing is still a good 10 years away.
GM has gone on the record saying that, because of the elimination of most of the moving parts, these cars could realistically last 20 years. Which is a big concern for GM, obviously having a 20-year-turnover on cars is going to nail their bottom line... until you figure in the savings on engine parts, assembly lines for those engine parts, etc. Suddenly the AUTONOMY is a lot more attractive, as they might eventually cost a fraction of what regular cars do. GM recoups the lost turnover sales from the other 80% of the planet who can now afford a vehicle. And we get cool pivoting space-cars that cost $5000 and go for 2 decades.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Let's ignore the obvious problems inherent in this design (brake/accelerator location) due to going against the driver's intuition and previous experience. They were just trying to catch the eye by making some oddball design choices.
/.ers do want to look like that, but most "normal" people don't). I'd love an electric that could capture the look & feel of a 1972 Mach 1 Mustang (constructed in 1971, of course) or a nice old GTO (not a big fan of the Judge though), I would miss the sound on an electric though.
Engineering-wise, this has some impressive shit inside, if not entirely innovative. It's certainly a noteworthy achievment. Sure, it's really not that cutting edge, instead it's just an aggregation and refinement of stuff that's been done already.
I'm sure I'm in the minority here (and will be modded down for it, of course), but here goes...
Does anyone else miss real cars? Aren't you sick of these underpowered, jellybean-looking, rice-burning, gook specials out there? Do all the new electrics and hybrids need to go down the same path?
Don't you miss that 2-tons of Detroit steel, the kind of car that can register on the Richter scale on ignition?
Why does the vision of the future have to be so passified? Why can't it be kind of rugged? I'd feel pretty damned fruity (ala Ed Begly Jr) driving around in one of these plastic-turds.
So, yes, I'll give them some credit for the engineering. And, yes, it's a somewhat noble cause. But, can't these designs still be fun? Why do they all have to conform to some worn-out template of how a car of the future should look? C'mon, just a little creativity and passion would be appreciated... stupid fuckwads.
Who wants to bet there's a pointy-haired manager responsible for the aesthetics (probably the one that gave the quote in the parent post)? The conversation probably sounded something like this:
Designer - "Here's our new electric vehicle."
Management-Jerkoff - "But... that looks like a regular car."
Designer - "Um, well, yeah... we didn't want to alienate our customers."
Management-Jerkoff - "But, how will anyone know it's electric if it looks like just any other car?"
Don't they realize, if these things didn't stick out so much, they'd sell more? Most people don't want to look like a dork in one of these (yes,
There's a very heavy user interaction (look & feel) component that goes into choosing a car. These companies insist on alienating their consumers from the hybrid/electric market by making their cars look rather goofy. They're futuristic, but goofy nonetheless.
Only when a couple of things happen:
#1. People can't tell that it is not a gas driven car. Either by looks, power, or speed. The only exception will be if it end up having more power/speed.
#2. A law / bill is passed forcing them into market or giving such a large price break on them forces people to by them out of pure guilt.
What have you got under the hood there Franky? -- This is a turbo charged, water cooled, triple output, 4 switch power grid with a inverted v8 power cell.
It is going to take a little bit longer than your typical transition.
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
I am not an expert on fuel cells or hydrogen, but it is a viable alternative. Fuel cells are steadily increasing in wattage and will soon reach the 200Kw range. Now all fuel cells use hydrogen. The question is where does it come from. The 3 most common ways are compressed gas as was used in the article, gasoline, and methanol. Methanol and Gasoline both require a reformer to break the hydrocarbon chain an mahe H. Gasoline is a complex hydrocarbon, has an excelent energy density, but is complicated to reform than methanol. It is also supported by a large infrastructure. Methanol is a simple hydrocarbon that is easily reformed into H. It has approximately .5x the energy density of gasoline. One very large benefit is that it can be generated from local
renewable resources.
Anyway the H is made, there will be side efects. Reforming does produce carbon as waste. It can be captured as a liquid or solid rather than a greenhouse emission. Methanol from plant byproducts has all of the nasty issues of industrial farming.
As a side note: Why is that vehiclo so damn ugly. There are some very exciting EV prototypes out there. At least one does 0 to 60 in 3 seconds.
Actually, I hope they have a mod chip going the other way, limiting to 75 or even 70. Hold on - hear (er, read) me out: if insurance agencies give discounts on models that have airbags, antilock brakes, etc., couldn't there also be a break if your car can't go over 75, period? It certainly wouldn't be involved in any high speed car chases.
I'm not saying I'm some kind of slow poke, but there are lots of people who don't drive fast. Why not reward them and make their cars less dangerous when stolen at the same time?
To stay on topic, I think after some tests they will have versions with the pedals back on the floor. I don't even like having the radio or air controls on the steering wheel. While moving the pedals may sound interesting in theory, as I understand the brain a different part controls the legs than the hands, so it is relatively easy to balance reactions for steering and pedals. Especially when people generally start learning to drive ~16, trying to change which "brain-route"* reactions should take just gets harder as one ages, and more prone to fall back to old reactions in panic situations.
* Obviously the wrong term for what would probably be a detailed discussion of neural pathways and reality vs. sci-fi; but I think my drift stands.
(In rereading my preview it occurs to me I actually drive with my hands on the highway using cruise control, but then I'm not usually slowing/speeding up and turning sharp corners while dodging pedestrians, construction zones, and drivers pulling out from blind corners. I would hate to try to do all of that with my hands.)
Maybe the hotrod community will offer aftermarket mods that will give us a flying car finally, 'Step 13: plumb the lines from the LOX tank to the combustion chamber after plumbing the Liquid hydrogen lines. Step 14: turbo pump throttle cables . . . '
The nerve center of Hy-wire?s electrical system is a single docking port or connection, which provides the electrical connection between the all-aluminum chassis and the fiberglass body. Because it uses fully electronic linkages and controls, the by-wire system simply plugs into the docking connection on the Hy-wire chassis.
/.er who ever said, "If we built cars like computers, no one would tolerate the the crashes." -- Your wish has come true.
To any
Ever had the power windows bust on your car while the window is down? Imagine what fun you'll have when the by-wire system, shorts, gets cut or comes loose. Weee!
______________________
There are still a few fighter jets that rely on mechanical systems. A-10 Thunderbolt, F-14 Tomcat (not all systems fly-by-wire), and heavies such as the B-52's(not all components fly-by-wire) Galaxies (a few systems are software controlled), Orions, and Tanker/refuellers to name a few.
I agree with you on the propulsion and brake controls. The foot-pedals came into being because all of the systems on the first vehicles were mechanical. You can push a brake pedal with your legs harder than you could pull a brake lever. There also wasn't an acceptable way of attaching a mechanical device to a steering wheel or column during the early days of automobiles. Besides, would you want to try to turn a car that didn't use power steering with one hand while trying to simultaneously apply the brake lever? The fact that the propulsion and brake controls have remained as a foot-pedal has as much to do with tradition as it does with practicality. Now that software controls have finally made it to the automobile, the floor-pedals should be replaced with a digital component. Cruise control was the first attempt at moving propulsion from the floor to the control panel. It eliminated fatigue (in the calves) and increased the gas milage of the vehicle. Why not remove all control components from the floor if they no longer need to be? It would simplify chassis design, and provide for more leg room.
To know is to have knowledge....to understand is to be enlightened.
No, I don't miss those 2-ton Detroit steel barges. Mainly because they don't handle, but also because they're criminally inefficient.
About the looks: this isn't the only concept car that's come out of Detroit recently. There were several that should be more to your liking. The Ford 'Tonka' pickup, for example (even more monstrous than current offerings), Dodge had another 'full size' pickup, and they were both shown with alternative propulsion (the Ford was Diesel-electric, and the Dodge used LNG, IIRC).
The HyWire mainly looks goofy because it can. It's not only a hydrogen-power prototype, it shows off an entirely different way of building cars. Why stick that underneath some bog-standard undistinctive bodyshell?
Once this technology goes mainstream, you can bet there'll be body styles to suit everyone.