Slashdot Mirror


FT on Europe's Open Source Option

Anonymous Coward writes "The Financial Times offers a very interesting read about Linux, its possibilities for business, and its threat to Microsoft. Also a second article about "Europe's open-source option"."

16 of 235 comments (clear)

  1. Problem with the article: by Gentoo+Fan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Developed by Stallman, the so-called general public licence attached to Linux forces anyone who modifies the system to make the modification freely available to others.

    Only if you REDISTRIBUTE the binaries as well! This makes it sound like any in-house change must be published.

    1. Re:Problem with the article: by Keck · · Score: 2, Informative

      I doubt it, it comes down to the non-disclosure agreement between them. If the contractor is using the program only for work for that company (as they should) there is no reason the company has to give up their right not to 'distribute', as it's still that company [legally a person] using the program to their own ends. IANAL, of course, so this could be debated endlessly, but I think the real important part is that a corporation is legally an individual, and a contractor doing work for that 'individual' is part of that individual when serving in that capacity, and doesn't have the right to distribute their works if they don't say so. if the company says the contractor can distribute it, then they have to give them the source too, but otherwise I think the rights still lie with teh corporation.

      --
      A computer without Microsoft is like ice cream without ketchup.
    2. Re:Problem with the article: by Hobbex · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is a common misconception about the GPL, which shows a misunderstand about what the license says.

      When you download software that somebody else has written, and use it as the basis of an inhouse piece of software, then you need the permission of the person who wrote the original software to distribute the derivative work (your inhouse software.) If the software comes with a notice that it is under the GPL, that is simply a communication from the author saying under what terms HE will allow you to distribute the software - namely that you keep it under the GPL and give the source code to anyone who wants it.

      The people that you distribute the software to have no legal right to dictate the terms under which you do so - only the original author does, since you can only distribute his copyrighted work at all with his permission. Thus, the people who get the software may be more than happy to sign away the ability to get ahold of the source code - but that does not matter, because it is not with them you made an agreement to distribute the source code, it is with the original author of the software.

      That said, regarding employees working in the office there is no issue what so ever - distribution of the software has to do with which computers it is installed on, not who uses it, so as long as the company owns the computer there has been no distribution. If it is software that employees or consolutants will take home and run on their own machines, then IANAL but it seems pretty clear to me that, yes, you do owe them the source.

      On the whole though, MS campaign of trying to use this against Linux is 100% FUD (or rather an outright lie). There are GPLed programs and libraries on Windows as well, people who don't want to GPL there software don't have to make derivative works based on them, and nor do they on Linux (there are plenty of LGPLed, BSDed, and even proprietary libraries to go around). And if they do want to base their software on something that is GPLed, the worse case is that they have to exactly what you always have to do with proprietary software anyways: call up the author and try to negotiate to pay for permission to use it under other conditions.

    3. Re:Problem with the article: by Saint+Fnordius · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most of the fear about Open Source software is due to Microsoft fearmongering. In reality, there's no problem with selling/using closed source on top of Linux (see WordPerfect for Linux). In fact, the "disadvantage" becomes an advantage, as the programmers and legal are more aware of their boundries.

      As for your example, the libraries can be put in a sandbox, and segregated from the more sensitive bits. But as long as you're not distributing out-of-house, you can keep your source code confidential. Just beware, should you decide that your app can be sold to clients...

    4. Re:Problem with the article: by rseuhs · · Score: 3, Informative
      Alright, let's ignore the existence of the LGPL and pretend it didn't exist.

      Asking "What happens to our software if we use GPL-software as base?" is like asking "What happens to my company when we don't pay licensing fees to MS?"

      It's just part of the rules. And be assured, it's a lot easier to make sure not to use GPLed code in in-house apps than to make sure no employee has somewhere installed some unlicensed software. (Which can cost the company hundreds of thousands)

      Also, all the GPL violations have been solved by either removing the code (rewriting it) or opening up the whole. So if you don't want to open up you just need to do what you should have done from the beginning: Write it yourself. The risks involved in breaking the GPL are minimal, especially because there won't be any damages claims. Also, when it is about an in-house app anyway, what's the big deal in opening it up?

      Micorosft's license, on the other hand, is enforced, there are audits and huge fines.

      Anybody asking "What happens to our software if we use GPL-software as base" is either:

      • An idiot still not understanding the GPL, the difference between GPL and LGPL and in this case also not understanding licneses in general
      • A MCSE, MSFT-stockholder or somebody else who will lose very much with the decline of Microsoft, happily willing to spread any FUD about any non-Microsoft product.
      • A troll
  2. Very good to see by Achmed+Swaribabu · · Score: 5, Informative
    I think that the EU has traditionally been more open minded to open the source technologies than the USian people have been, by my judgment.

    We have been doing much work for lots of private industrial companies all over Europe by make the modfications to FreeBSD and Gnu/Linux kernel for years and just now starting to see jobs from the USA.

    Oh too, to make a clarification, most of our work has been on FreeBSD (my specialty actually) because we recommend it for companies because of the more flexible license, but we like the work on Gnu/Linux too.

    --

    All the best,
    --Achmed

    Swaribabu Consulting Inc. -- We code so you don't have to

    1. Re:Very good to see by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2, Informative
      Oh too, to make a clarification, most of our work has been on FreeBSD (my specialty actually) because we recommend it for companies because of the more flexible license

      That's an interesting perspective. Presumably if you make custom changes for companies then they wouldn't be redistributed so you wouldn't have to reveal the changes anyway. And what sort of things do you change or add that is so secret they can't be released back?

  3. This article was mentioned on BBC World's by mijok · · Score: 3, Informative

    World Business Report this morning. Very good indeed that Linux gets more and more publicity among businesspeople too.

    --
    Karma. Moderation. Is my .sig good now?
    1. Re:This article was mentioned on BBC World's by Chillblaine · · Score: 2, Informative

      The BBC website has an article on Linux aswell.

      PS. WTF does "The Sopranos" have to do with HP and linux ?

      --
      You Are Being Lied To.
  4. More on Linux in the FT's Lex column... by dipfan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Apart from the big Linux piece highlighted, the paper's Lex column carred a note on Linux as well today (it was in the dead tree edition - the online bit is subscription only.)

    To explain, the Lex column is a very influential daily piece of analysis, read by the financial world's movers and shakers (mainly in the UK). I'd quibble about a few points - MS's Office franchise is (financially) secure? Linux suffers from "real security issues"? Nonsense. Anyway, for review purposes, here the piece:

    "Technology investors should be thinking long and hard about Linux. The free, open source operating system has moved beyond the beard and sandals stage and is no longer just an option for bleeding-edge early adopters and those theologically opposed to Microsoft. Linux, whose mascot is a cuddly penguin, has developed teeth. The technology has emerged as a credible alternative for corporate IT departments and is winning significant share in the $200bn server market.
    "Sun, Hewlett-Packard and IBM - which have traditionally marketed high-margin Unix equipment and software - are among those that have suffered from Linux's growing popularity. All three have seen the writing on the wall and have begun supporting Linux, but the transition from Unix, with proprietary hardware and software, will be painful.
    "For the moment, Microsoft has not been overly affected by Linux's rise. Open source software is unlikely to gain even a foothold in personal computer operating systems, so Microsoft's $10bn Windows monopoly remains impregnable. Its $8.8bn Office franchise is equally secure.
    "Nonetheless, Microsoft cannot be complacent. The long-term threat to its $6.5bn server business is real. Microsoft's model has been low price, high volume, but for the first time it is being undercut on price. It can argue that Linux suffers from real security issues that are only now emerging and that the operating system has a tendency to fragment, making it difficult to ensure applications' reliability. But it has a real marketing battle on its hands."

  5. Re:Feh. by mesocyclone · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not to mention the fact that Americans INVENTED THE COMPUTER, which started the entire industry for which Europeons are patting themselves on the back for excelling at.


    It *really pains me* to defend Europeans in this discussion, but I must point out that Alan Turing was English, and Colossus was one of the most significant developments in computers. And don't forget that Britain also made major contributions in the development of the atomic bomb and radar.

    Of course, many of us don't consider Brits to be "true Europeans" since they speak a fractured form of English, which is the language of the most successful societies on earth.

    --

    The only good weather is bad weather.

  6. Re:Europe and Microsoft et al... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    "C++: USA"

    Bjarne Stroustrup is a Dane last time I looked. The architect of C#, Anders Heljsberg, also comes from Denmark, and Denmark is in the EU.

  7. Couple of errors... by MosesJones · · Score: 4, Informative

    Europe has 50+ years of co-operation, and a history of it. Not everyone together, but a history of country alliances.

    WWII, France, UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark etc.

    WWI, France, UK

    The Brits and the Dutch used to have alliances against the French and the Spanish. The Germans and Austrians are pretty pally, lots of parts of Europe used to be owned by other countries, e.g. most of France by England, Alsace by Germany etc etc.

    The Napoleonic wars were everyone v Napoleon. The Crimea was Brit and France v Russia.

    In terms of the European defence industry being a joke, pretty harsh. Look at the contracts the US Goverment awards and look at the sub-contractors, Thales, Bae, Rolls-Royce are most often there.

    Violent Crime in terms of rape and murder is MILES lower in Europe than the US. Muggings et al are higher, so we have unhappy people who live, and the US has unhappy relatives of people who died.

    This isn't bloody American bashing, its laying out how Europe likes to co-operate to compete with the US Globalisation plan. Its a clash of cultures, each has their advantages and disadvantages.

    Europe knows that the US is the biggest fish in the pond, but it also knows (to its cost) that being the biggest fish doesn't give you the right to dictate as you only get embarressed by what you did 100 years later.

    WWI was started because the empire building powers thought that you could still fight a war from the 1800s with technology in the 1900s and that having plebs shot wasn't a very bad thing. Europe learnt alot from having tens of thousands of people die in a day.

    Namely War does actually suck.

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
  8. Re:Europe and Microsoft et al... by mesocyclone · · Score: 2, Informative

    Thereby forgetting that your much praised democracy also stemmed from Europe (not to mention your language, bulk of your culture and most of your country's inhabitants' ancestors).

    No, just not having mentioned it. Of course, we made a few adaptations that made it more successful. I also remember that the French tried it next, and ended up with the French Revolution, one of the most brutal episodes in the history of the west.

    As for the US having to clean up our mess, the US were too busy looking in the mirror to see Pearl Harbor coming. It's only then that you interfered in WWII.
    Not to save Europe, but to retain a market for your exporting companies and to save your OWN asses from communism that was closing in on you quite rapidly. Don't go telling me that the US were so noble to "save" Europe because Eisenhower/Roosevelt felt sorry for us. It's all about the Benjamins, it is now, and it was then.


    What is a Benjamin?

    Also, you seem a bit confused. WWII was a fight against the Nazis, not the communists. I suggest you check your history books.

    And the US did a lot of noble things. Not *only* out of humanitarian reasons, of course, but noble none-the-less. We rebuilt a *competitor* (Europe) using our own money in the Marshall plan. We kept thousands of our young men in Europe for decades to protect Europe from the depradations of the Soviet empire. We brought Japan from a feudal state to a more modern, much freer democracy.

    Would you have preferred to have been absorbed by the USSR? If so, I refer you to two books: "The Black Book of Communism "(written by French intellectuals) which highlights the crimes of communist governments throughout the world, and Alexander Yakovlev's "A Century of Violence in Soviet Russia." If those don't convince you of the evil of actual communist governments, you are hopeless!

    What business did you have interfering in Vietnam? Korea? etc..

    Stopping the global spread of imperial communist Russia. The Korean war was started *at the express order* of the KGB by Kim Il Sung, who spent World War II in Russia as a KGB asset. He invaded South Korea (in violation of treaties).

    The Vietnam War was an (unfortunately successful) attempt by the Communist regime of Ho Chi Minh to conquer the South. A little history item for you: after the French colonialists (Europeans, btw) were thrown out of Vietnam, it was divided, and the people voted with their feet as to which regime they wanted. Huge numbers moved south to get away from the communists. The South Vietnamese government was hardly a shining example of democracy (or anything else), but it was preferred by its people to the alternative.

    Also I hear of quite a few neighborhoods in the bigger cities of the US where the police don't even dare to patrol anymore.

    Well, so much for the quality of European media! What you hear is total nonsense. Where did you hear it?

    And how about slavery? Sure, there have always been regimes that made use of slave labor, but your fair and democratic USA made use of it on an enormous scale for centuries.

    As did Europe, which initiated and profitted mightily from the African slave trade. And our country spent 500,000 lives to eliminate slavery in our country, and we did so!

    If you are so exercised about slavery, how about condemning the Sudan, where slaves are still bought and sold? I have heard a lot of bloviations from Europeans about how bad the US is, but little about the real evil in the world! Selective morality seems to be a modern European attribute also.

    Also tell me which country in the EU still executes prisoners? None, I can tell you.

    Actually, Britain still has capital punishment for sabotage of naval facilities. However, I am not ashamed of our record of capital punishment. My state also executes those who have preyed upon their fellow human beings.

    You're also right in your previous statements. But the rant above just goes to show that bot the US and EU have dirty hands in many ways.

    Every nation in the world and every group has dirty hands... it just depends on what the situation is and when it happened.

    If it werent for The West as I'll call them collectively, there'd probably be a lot less war in this world than there is now.

    That is pretty pathetic. You might be right - of course. Some brutal dictator *might* just take over the whole world - that would end war all right. But to blame the wars in the world on the west is so silly that I am not going to bother refuting it.
    --

    --

    The only good weather is bad weather.

  9. From the FSF by jbolden · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here is what the FSF says on this very issue:


    Q- Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?

    A - The GPL does not require you to release your modified version. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.
    But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the users, under the GPL.

    Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you.

  10. From the FSF by jbolden · · Score: 2, Informative

    Again this is specifically addressed by the FSF:

    Q- Does the GPL allow me to distribute a modified or beta version under a nondisclosure agreement?

    A - No. The GPL says that anyone who receives a copy of your version from you has the right to redistribute copies (modified or not) of that version. It does not give you permission to distribute the work on any more restrictive basis.

    Q - Does the GPL allow me to develop a modified version under a nondisclosure agreement?

    A - Yes. For instance, you can accept a contract develop changes and agree not to release your changes until the client says ok. This is permitted because in this case no GPL-covered code is being distributed under an NDA.
    You can also release your changes to the client under the GPL, but agree not to release them to anyone else until the client says ok. In this case, too, no GPL-covered code is being distributed under an NDA, or under any additional restrictions.

    The GPL would give the client the right to redistribute your version, but in this scenario the client will choose not to exercise that right.