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Long Computer Sessions Could Cause Blood Clots
kac5 writes "The Australian reports that extended stints in front of the computer can cause blood clots to form such as those that occur from Deep Vein Thrombosis. Researchers have named it e-thrombosis (what is it with naming everything to do with computers e something?). So /.'s get up out of your chair, slowly so not to make your body go into shock, and walk to the other side of the room and back. Now do that every hour and you should be right according to this article!"
Now, all of this scientific stuff is great.
OK, all of us here are going to die from blood clots while our arms are aching from carpal tunnel syndrome...
What I'd really like to see is some general data on roughly how many hours (per day or per week) people are spending in front of a computer to get symptoms like these, and after how many years.
Is it because it's 'too random to judge accurately' or something like that? Or have they (meaning 'people smarter than myself') just not narrowed it down yet?
I wonder if DVT is related to the law requiring truckers and buses to take a 15 minute rest stop every 5 or 6 hours (I don't remember the exact period of time, I heard it from a charter bus driver a while ago.)
The article says that the man would sit at his desk for up to 18 hours a day. Perhaps we can try to convince employers to allow chair racing in the hallways.
Here's what you do: you have to stop every four hours of sitting and do some stretches, and take a 10-15 minute walk OUTSIDE.
I used to be a PCB designer, which involves moving the mouse and clicking A LOT, with very little keyboard interaction. Instant tendonitis. The solution was to get those hand grip spring thingies, every 15 minutes I'd stop and do 15 grips per hand.
What happens is that mousing is an incomplete movement, the tendons and muscles stay in a low state of tension, which is unnatural and prevents circulation.
Stretching helps promote circulation.
I recommend the same for all computer jockeys. Some stretches, some walking. Hey I'd recommend a gym and some weights, but this IS slashdot...
I have wondered about this. Reading articles about people having a stroke because they sat in coach for 6 hours, realizing I've been sitting at my desk that long, my hypochondria grows. The real problem is the chair. My HM Aeron is so comfortable I don't even notice long stretches. Maybe uncomfortable chairs would solve thins.
Nowadays if this happened I'd have a solid case against Herman Miller (a joke, they are the best)
That is why hard-working coders (like you, me and everyone who reads /. 7 times an hour) drink so much coffee. In one our, either you stand up and go get some, or you go to the bathroom.
We had already solved the problem before they "e-discovered" it.
A couple of years ago (when I was 31) I came down with Deep Vein Thrombosis in my liver.
I needed a liver biopsy (not fun) and six months on blood-thinners and twice-weekly blood tests.
At the time the doctor couldn't explain a cause, as I was way younger than people who usually get this, but now it makes perfect sense, as I'd been doing a lot of dawn-to-midnight programming in a very comfy new chair...
Water. Exercise. Got it.
IANADoctor, but I work in a hospital. To combat DVT from occuing in patients recovering from surgery with extended bed rest, we would hook them up to a device called an SCD (Sequential Compression Device). It basically would stimulate the blood flow. They also had an ankle compression device that was a lot less invasive.
M
Bottom line, you don't have to give up any PC time, just buy one of these units. Contact your local hospital, or Durable Medical Equipment (DME) for ordering information.
Below is the first search result I found using Sequential Compression Device for further reading about the topic.
http://www.msdistributors.com/biomed/meh/SCD.HT
Sequential Compression Devices, or SCD's, (also known as Lymphodema pumps) are designed to limit the development of Deep Vein Thrombosis (DVT) and Peripheral Edema in immobile patients. When a patient is immobile for long periods of time, as in recuperation from an injury, blood tends to pool in the calf area of the lower leg. To combat this tendency, clinicians use the Sequential Compression Device. This consists of an air pump connected to a disposable sleeve by a series of air tubes. The sleeve is placed around the patient's leg. Air is then forced into different parts of the sleeve in sequence, creating pressure around the calves and improving venous return. Hospital units can utilize up to 10 sequential chambers; most home units have three. Available units include the Kendall 5325 and 6325 and the Jobst 7500.
A similar therapy which combats the same conditions is the Foot Pump. These devices artifically stimulate the venous plantar plexus (large vein located in the foot) to increase blood circulation in bed-ridden patients by simulating the motion of blood produced during walking. Devices using this form of sequential compression include the Kendall AV Impulse pumps and the NuTech Plexipulse.
In late November of 2001 I was walking near my house and felt a rather sharp pain in my right thigh about 4" away from the pelvis connection. Went to MGH (Massachusetts General Hospital) thinking that perhaps I had cracked my pelvis (about what it felt like) but the scans showed I had DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis).
The doctors asked if I had been on an airplane recently as this is often seen in people who sit in cramped positions for long periods of time. I had not. But I was working as a low-level NOC monkey. Combine that with my computer activities post-work and you have pretty much the same thing minus the cramped aspect. But the doctors seemed to discard that theory.
Just to sew the story up, I took self-administered shots of Fragmin for about 2 weeks and then coumadin/warfarin (blood thinners) for about 8 months. The Fragmin is necessary because the warfarin will cause blood thickening when starting off so the Fragmin counters this. I should mention that Fragmin is incredibly expensive ($50/ea shot, 2x a day IIRC) so not having health insurance would have really sucked.
But the only thing I can think of that would have caused it is long hours at the computer. Of course it might have had a genetic origin but I've never heard of anyone in my family having it.
My
Limekiller
No kidding. It's the same thing. This isn't news at all.
And you know what else? If you're worried about it... get a dog. Nothing like a minimum of 3 trips outside to walk the dog to get you off your ass and moving around a bit (at least for those who live in the city).
Now I don't men to say that sitting at a computer terminal for hours on end is a good thing, but how is that any different from sleep? Sleep seems to fit their definition of "repeated prolonged immobility." So why don't we all die of fatal blood clots every night?
Is it the act of sitting or the posture we use while sitting at a computer that apparently makes this a health risk? Since this article doesn't seem to address these issues I'm gonna have to say these clots were likely caused by a bad chair and poor posture, in addition to repeated prolonged immobility.
Once again I'd like to point out that I don't think sitting in one place for more that an hour at a time is good for you regardless of what you're sitting on. But that I don't think these down under researchers are seeing the whole picture.
Why haven't I gotten a heart attack in my 4 hour OOP class?
Sometimes I pray for a heart attack. Or a pen in the eye.
i can't imagine sitting for too long in this thing
Remember the article posted a few months ago regarding a gamer in Soth Korea who died after playing for 86 (??) hours on one of those Cyber Cafes there. I don't know the details of the case, but it's be possible that the gamer died because of this. The only time he got-up was after 86 hours of gaming just to go to the bathroom. Unfortunately for that guy, he died at the bathroom.
you mean I can get out of this chair?
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I've never worried *that* much about the excesses of sitting in a chair while coding. I don't find I can keep my focus for long enough without doing something in between.
...or maybe it's just me.
Last few months, I took up karate as a sport (and I was getting pretty short of exercise). Wonders for the focus to get up every now and again, do a few stretches of a kata in the machine room. Fortunately I work in an environment that is tolerant of this kind of "eccentricity"
During my last development spree, I managed to learn Heian Yondan complete during spells inbetween coding a Servlet/JSP program for academic registration.
And of course, there's always the stress venting aspect of exercise -- coupled with the mental imagery, BOFH style, when the registrar is being a complete and utter pompus idiot of visualising the goofus being used as a kick bag...
Think of this -- RSS (repetitive stress syndrome). For all the time at a keyboard, how many coders does it affect -- probably a lot fewer than of the population of wordsmiths because coders type in bursts, think in bursts.
I shake so damn much that blood clots could never form.
On a serious note, I've got that annoying habit where I shake my legs when I'm sitting still... I wonder if that will actually protect me from DVT?
bp
On a Friday after a particularly long night at work - about 14 hours of sitting in front of my 'puter trying to finish a project this past September.
I was trying to finish a project for work the Friday before Labor day in September. Saturday morning I woke up with a pain in my chest. After 4 days in one of the local hospitals, they told me it was an ulcer and discharged me. 2 hours later, I was in another hospital where they diagnosed me with a pulmonary embolism - which the pulmonologist later told me was probably caused by sitting too long. My adventures with the first hospital are for another story.
I gotta tell ya - if you ever get a PE, you'll know it. The pain is excruciating. Obviously I recovered with no complications. Now, however, I make it a point to get up, walk around, and do some thinking during the day instead of the ol' marathon caffeine / code sessions.
It's weird to think that if that clot broke loose one more time I could have cashed-out.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
I assume that helpdesks are not much different now than 3 years ago when I did ISP support. I found that if you weren't busy taking calls, the shift supervisor would be on your case wondering why you weren't at your desk and having your phone set to "available". This is also a place where you had to "ask" to use the washroom, and that request was usually met with "take some more calls". Basically, you have to wonder how many people are in jobs where taking a few seconds, not even minutes every hour is frowned upon and how much the health problems that the workers face are caused by this type of attitude.
I make a reasonable middle-class wage by going to work and not spamming blogs with scams.