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Long Computer Sessions Could Cause Blood Clots
kac5 writes "The Australian reports that extended stints in front of the computer can cause blood clots to form such as those that occur from Deep Vein Thrombosis. Researchers have named it e-thrombosis (what is it with naming everything to do with computers e something?). So /.'s get up out of your chair, slowly so not to make your body go into shock, and walk to the other side of the room and back. Now do that every hour and you should be right according to this article!"
So all this time sitting in front of my computer refreshing /. to say FIRST POST is bad for me??? ...sorry...
Missed first post cause I was walking across the room.
:)
Karma burning
- gtaluvit (prnc. GOT-tuh-LUV-it)
... I must be due for a heart atta
No one else ever believed me when I said that taking that cigarette break every hour was healthy. Now I've got proof ;)
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
this shouldn't come as a surprise, if you think about it. I'm reminded of the high occurence of lower-extremity (particularly foot) swelling that occurs on airlines. This isn't due to a change in pressure, it's due to the fact that you're sitting in one place for a longass time. Stands to reason that if you stagnate for too long, bad things happen.
filter: +3. Hey, look! all the trolls went away!
First Stroke!
Actually, I might have a stroke after I see how bad I get modded down for this comment....
Remember that you are unique, just like everybody else.
Haven't we always been told to get up and away from the computer at regular intervals?
And why would sitting at a computer be any different to sitting in an aeroplane seat or sitting in ANY seat for that matter?
If you sit for too long you'll probably become a fat bastard and have a stroke.
but seeing as I am having severe chest pains and my leg is bloated, I think I will call 911.
Who would have thought that sitting in a chair for 8 hours straight without moving would be bad for their health?
I hope these researchers didn't have a big grant.
Jason
ProfQuotes
It's sad that people need medical proof before they would even consider getting up a few times a day instead of sitting at a computer for 18+ hours straight. Back in the day, we called that common sense.
today is spelling optional day.
Now, all of this scientific stuff is great.
OK, all of us here are going to die from blood clots while our arms are aching from carpal tunnel syndrome...
What I'd really like to see is some general data on roughly how many hours (per day or per week) people are spending in front of a computer to get symptoms like these, and after how many years.
Is it because it's 'too random to judge accurately' or something like that? Or have they (meaning 'people smarter than myself') just not narrowed it down yet?
I shake so damn much that blood clots could never form.
/me downs another tin on penguin mints. That's the same as 25 cans of cola for those that are counting.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
But it truely was excessive amounts of time. Essentially what had happened was I threw one one of my knees vaccuuming the inside of my car (twisting my legs funny trying to get all the corners under the seats and all. Anyhow, because of that, my left leg was put into an immoblizer. So I basically couldn't walk very well, or very much. So I sat in my chair, almost the entire day for about a week while my knee healed.
:)
During that week, my right leg just hanged down off the edge of the chair all the time. Eventially I noticed it started to swell by my caff, and it hurt real bad. After a few days it was the size of one of them long watermellons, and deep purple colored. I went to the doctors, and sure enough it was a fairly large blood clot logged under my knee (where my leg was bent on the chair all day). The impaction from sitting at the chair all day caused the blood circulation to slow, resulting in a clot forming. It's a lot like a snowball effect, a little clot forms, and more and more platelets attach to it.
Once the doctor did an ultrasound on my leg and confirmed it was a blood clot, I was in the hospital for about 5 days with an IV drip of blood thinners. They came in about every 3 hours to take blood from me to make sure my platelet level was fine (don't want to thin the blood too much.) After the 5 days I went home to bed rest for about 6 weeks. During that 6 weeks I had to transition myself off the IV blood thinners to a pill called Coumadin. The only way to transition were shots of the stuff in the IV about twice a day in my stomach. Not very fun. I had a nurse come by the house once a day to take blood to check to make sure the levels were good.
During that time, the doctors kept telling me that if I felt in pain in my head, chest, or trouble breathing to call 911 immediately. Blood clots are very serious. If it breaks away and moves through the blood stream, it can clog somewhere in my body causing a heart attack, stroke, or pulminary embalism. It was funny, because the first night I was home, the nurse told me all about that, and kept saying, "And if you don't call 911 immediately you could die!!!" in this real strict voice. Then she took my blood pressure. "Your blood pressure it too high!!!" My father pointed out she had just scared the hell out of me hehe.
Anyhow, after the 6 weeks, I pretty much had to learn to walk again since my muscles were very weak. I had to wear funny stockings on my leg to make sure it keep my circulation good, and had to continue taking coumadin for about a year and a half. I had to wear a special medical alert bracelet because if I were in a car accident, it would alert EMTs that I'm on Coumadin, meaning any bleeding injuries wouldn't clot themselves anymore because of my thin blood.
It takes a very long time for the body to absorb a blood clot, so during that year and a half I had to make sure I paid attention to any chest pains, and not passed them off as heart burn. Also, during that year and a half, I had to go into the doctors office twice a week and have blood drawn to check my platelet levels. Not very fun, I looked like a drug addict from all the needle marks.
So, safe to say, I pay attention to how long I'm sitting, and how my legs are. I occastionally stand up and take 10 minute walks when I'm at work. I try and tap my food, or move my leg when sitting to keep blood flowing down there. My doctor also told me to pick up some horse chesnut extract. Apparently its been shown to help increase blood circulation. Due to the severe swelling in my leg, its now bigger than the other one pretty much perminately. The veins are also noticably bigger when I exercise. Also, the type of chair you sit in plays a big role. I make sure the chair I'm sitting in has plenty of padding and comfortable around the under paid of my knees, and that my legs don't hang off the edge, rather I'm low enough my feet touch the ground and support my leg.
The only good thing I say I got out of this I had plenty of time when I was in bed to learn C.
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
Here's what you do: you have to stop every four hours of sitting and do some stretches, and take a 10-15 minute walk OUTSIDE.
I used to be a PCB designer, which involves moving the mouse and clicking A LOT, with very little keyboard interaction. Instant tendonitis. The solution was to get those hand grip spring thingies, every 15 minutes I'd stop and do 15 grips per hand.
What happens is that mousing is an incomplete movement, the tendons and muscles stay in a low state of tension, which is unnatural and prevents circulation.
Stretching helps promote circulation.
I recommend the same for all computer jockeys. Some stretches, some walking. Hey I'd recommend a gym and some weights, but this IS slashdot...
Alcohol causes dehyrdation which in turn will increase the probability of clots forming. You can reduce this effect by drinking plenty of other (preferably clear) fluids (no I don't mean stoli - I mean stuff like water).
Does it require different treatment? Would doses of cyber-warfarin cure it? If not, would the implant of a Bayesian vena cava filter be an alternative?
And how would you locate the clots in the first place? By ultrasound, of course. Gotta ping 'em!
That is why hard-working coders (like you, me and everyone who reads /. 7 times an hour) drink so much coffee. In one our, either you stand up and go get some, or you go to the bathroom.
We had already solved the problem before they "e-discovered" it.
iThrombosis from Apple.
Also look for gThromb, kThromb, gtkThromb, gnuThromb, and ThrombCurses for Linux and UNIX.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
A couple of years ago (when I was 31) I came down with Deep Vein Thrombosis in my liver.
I needed a liver biopsy (not fun) and six months on blood-thinners and twice-weekly blood tests.
At the time the doctor couldn't explain a cause, as I was way younger than people who usually get this, but now it makes perfect sense, as I'd been doing a lot of dawn-to-midnight programming in a very comfy new chair...
Water. Exercise. Got it.
there's just something too funny about a disorder called "Deep Vein Thrombosis"... sounds like the name of a porn flick.
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
1st of all, blood thinners do not affect platlets. Heparin, and fractionated heparins such as fragmin affect a lab known as ptt or aptt, which is a measure of one branch of the clotting cascade. Coumadin affects one of the other branches, and is measured by pt. These agents may be used at the same time because of this. Coumadin is also known as warfarin, and is the main ingredient in many rodent poisons for this reason. Blood should be checked frequently while on heparin iv because it has a short half life, and can increase or decrease pt dramaticly. Neither are "clotbusters" For a simple DVT a 'clotbuster' drug is unlikely to be used for the simple reason that the risks are too great for the benefit. Surgical intervention is possible to remove the clot, as well as placement of a device called a greenfield filter, which is usually placed in the inferior vena cava to catch any emboli which are thrown as the clots break loose, they typically are used in patients who get thrombosis frequently for whatever reason.
I mean, the three-some sex alone with our model girlfriends is a workout in itself, but I guess lesser people wouldn't be able to keep up.
I use a Mac, so I have iThrombosis.
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They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
I Hate \.
It's absolutely absurd that they reference sitting in front of the computer as the cause.
First, it has absolutely nothing to do with computers, just with sitting.
Second, yes, people sit in front of computers more often now than they used to, but I think it's less a "sedentary lifestyle" and more a "productive lifestyle." People sit at desks a lot longer than they used to for other reasons, too. I've got Ibanking friends who are at work, at their desks, for at least 16 hours every day, except when they have occasional presentations. They're being productive, not sedentary.
Read jack phelps dot net
In late November of 2001 I was walking near my house and felt a rather sharp pain in my right thigh about 4" away from the pelvis connection. Went to MGH (Massachusetts General Hospital) thinking that perhaps I had cracked my pelvis (about what it felt like) but the scans showed I had DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis).
The doctors asked if I had been on an airplane recently as this is often seen in people who sit in cramped positions for long periods of time. I had not. But I was working as a low-level NOC monkey. Combine that with my computer activities post-work and you have pretty much the same thing minus the cramped aspect. But the doctors seemed to discard that theory.
Just to sew the story up, I took self-administered shots of Fragmin for about 2 weeks and then coumadin/warfarin (blood thinners) for about 8 months. The Fragmin is necessary because the warfarin will cause blood thickening when starting off so the Fragmin counters this. I should mention that Fragmin is incredibly expensive ($50/ea shot, 2x a day IIRC) so not having health insurance would have really sucked.
But the only thing I can think of that would have caused it is long hours at the computer. Of course it might have had a genetic origin but I've never heard of anyone in my family having it.
My
Limekiller
I am currently on medication for DVT. As somebody already mentioned, it is not just from the computer, but sitting in general.
I program long hours. I'm generaly considered to be fit and healthy. I've gained a few pounds since I got married a few years ago, but I'm certainly not overweight.
I started a company last year that relies heavily on my development efforts. I knew better, but I still spent 15-20 hours, 7 days, every week for three months. That gradually dropped to 12 hours a day, but no less.
In October 2002, I went to the ER for some pain in my calf. They did an ultrasound on my leg and then decided that they would hospitalize me for three days to see how I would respond to high amounts of Coumadin they then gave me. The injections made my stomach look like someone beat me repeatedly with a crowbar. Pricks. According to my doctor, if I'd left it any longer, I risked death, plain and simple.
The Coumadin I take now is in pill form, and the doctor says I will be on it for another six months or so. I get blood tests weekly (and I am so sick of being poked and prodded) but my INR is steady, though I think kept balanced only by the meds.
These days I walk more. I code just as much, but until my company can afford to hire someone to replace me, there's no way around that... But I've managed to train myself to at least stand up and stretch every 20-30 minutes, and I move about every hour or so.
It sucks. Period. I recommend just avoiding it in the first place.
In the EU there has been legislation for 10 years regarding the use of computer workstations. Employers are obliged to carry out risk assessments of all work stations, and to re-assess them if anything about the workstation changes. You have to assess seating (which must be fully adjustable), provide footstools if required to relieve pressure on back of legs, reflection and glare, lighting, desk space, ensure operators take regular breaks....
Our tiny 20 desk operation took half a day to assess - I'd hate to have to do it in a call centre!
"Blood thinners" is a very general term. Blood clotting is a fairly complex process, involving one of two clotting cascades (intrinsic and extrinsic). One can inhibit one of these two protein pathways, or one can attack the platelets themselves. Platelet inhibitors are often lumped into the general category of "blood thinners" (asprin is a platelet inhibitor).
Coumadin attacks the vitamin-K-dependent clotting factors (factors 2, 7, 9, and 10) where they are manufactured in the liver. This is why coumadin takes a bit of time to take effect. Heparin is much more immediate, but requires close monitoring of the Partial Thromboplastin Time to ensure adequate anticoagulation. However, there is a different preparation of heparin, called "Low-molecular-weight heparin" that is preferred, since you don't have to monitor it, and as a result it's often used in the outpatient setting to treat DVTs.
The factors that contribute to DVT formation are stasis, injury (I've seen a DVT from being hit in the leg with a baseball), and hypercoagulable state (blood is too thick, or platelets are too sticky). The more factors you have, the greater your risk... but sometimes it's not simply additive. For instance, young women that smoke AND take birth control pills (both make you hypercoagulable) are at greatly increased risk for clots... those two particular risk factors seem to have a synergistic effect.
Most geeks should not get these... Pulmonary Emboli are rare in healthy people. However, if you get a big one (a so-called "saddle embolus") it can turn you out like a light. In the case of large emboli, "clot buster" thrombolytic drugs ARE used, but usually only on a truly unstable, dying-in-front-of-your-eyes patient. Clot buster drugs are NOT benign, and can cause strokes, and uncontrollable bleeding. You'd hate to fix a guy's emobolus, only to have him die from an intracranial bleed. There's a reason those drugs are given very cautiously.
Certain genetic susceptibilities also exist that can make you prone to DVT/PE. Protein C, Protein S, Antithrombin III, Factor V, just to name a few (I'm not a hematologist). If someone in your family gets an unexplained DVT, your doctor will probably be checking all of these and more. If a first-degree family member has one of these that is abnormal, you might consider getting your own blood checked.
one more thing... I have to take issue with the name "E-thrombosis"... sheesh. Why couldn't he just call it a Pulmonary Embolus? Then any doctor would know immediately what he was talking about... God save us from neeto buzzwords.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
I'll wait for iThrombosis so I can get it a higher price, in a overly designed package, and with Steve Jobs raving about it.
Good point. People in general seem to expect to be told everything they need to know, rather than going through any effort to figure it out for themselves. "Oh, sitting on a plane for six hours is bad for me; but sitting in front of a computer for six hours is okay!" Or, as you pointed out, "I'm coughing up my lungs, but smoking must be okay, because no one's told me otherwise!"
This may be why we have lawsuits like the McDonalds "I'm suing because you made me fat" suit that a judge recently dismissed. When you hear someone say, "I didn't know because someone else told me," just think: that's Darwinism in action.
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.