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Don't Eat The White Snow Either
loteck writes "An interesting article about an Australian ski resort that is converting human waste into freshly driven snow. The waste is converted "through a three-step purifying process of UV light filtration, ozonation and ultra-filtration", and they say it's "even cleaner than that made from nearby creek water." I think that says more about the creek than it does the waste."
I'll think you'll find that's due to the fact there IS NO WATER in the nearby creek. You can thank the Snowy Mountains Hydro project for that one.
EGG, the Electronic Gamers Guild
Why not use the recycled water to fill up the toliets again instead of putting it on the mountainside. Not sure if I'd want to be skiing on a wastewater snow slope.
they got some REAL shitty skiing at that resort.
I think this completely validates the time I yell "oh shit!" when I fell skiing.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
SHITBALL FIGHT!!!!!!! heh heh......doesn't have the same ring.....
I wonder what the writer of the write-up think happen with all other human waste?
You and I both live in the middle of mother natures great recycler.
There is no such thing as to remove human waste, you may MOVE it at best.
-- From Denmark
Now to find the decent snow you REALLY have to go off-piste.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I've heard of another project that uses semi-processed waste water to make snow. The process of making snow, in which the water is mixed with some other stuff ("chemicals", they are called, I think ?), then sprayed under very high pressure. As the water emerges from the spray nozzel, the sudden depressurization causes the cells of any living organizims (say , germs, or bacteria) to burst, effectively disinfecting the water on a microscopic level.
And they swore you couldn't tell it was sewage...
-------------------------
A person of moderate zeal
My other thought is, I'd imaging there must be some sort of minimum standard for the cleanliness of the water to make snow (no, there probably isn't a national standard like there is for drinking water), but there's probably some maximum amount of crud allowed in the water to not clog up the snowmaker machines. I've never been skiing, but don't you generally have several layers of clothing on, and nearly every part of your body covered? I don't think too many people are getting sick from the quality of the water used in snowmaking. Plus, are you eating it? Maybe the guy in the footage from ABC's Wide World of Sports (" .. and the agony of defeat... ") ate some snow, but most skiers probably don't ingest the snow.
I'm glad to see that they're purifying their sewage that much, but wouldn't it have been treated properly before this system was put in palce, and then discharged into a creek for other users (human, plant, and animal alike) downstream to use?
just thoughts from a non-skier, non sewage plant operater..
I can't wait for this technology to become sufficiently miniaturized that you can have it fitted internally, and just excrete pure white snow directly. It would certainly make snowball fights more interesting.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
The resort has an amazing 7500 beds, which all adds up to a lot of visitors making a lot of human waste. Converting this into snow seemed a logical step.
Maybe I'm not as logical as I once thought.
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
i agree...the concept i'm referring to though, is the concept of water purified through man-made means, as opposed to nature which most people are more used to. in singapore's case, they're currently pumping the purified water into reservoirs, just to let it sit in the open so the birds and fish can crap into it and let nature do a bit of its thing, before purifying it again to pump into the water supply. all this, just to satisfy the odd inhibitions that a lot of people have to consuming purified sewage. weak-minded people really do bother me sometimes.
"even cleaner than that made from nearby creek water." I think that says more about the creek than it does the waste.
A typical knee-jerk reaction that nearly all of us have, myself included. But perhaps quite an unfair one.
This is going to seem a little off-topic. Bear with me!
We seem to be quite often short of water these days, and since we don't have a lot of new water catchment possibilities, it would seem that it can only get worse as the population increases.
Saving water seems to be the key here. Not only through more efficient appliances, but also through multiple uses of our water. How much sense does it make to be flushing our toilets with drinking water?
Some houses already capture "grey water" and use it for tasks where drinking water is not required. Obviously there's some filtering required. I've heard of other projects which are completely water self-sufficient. Yes, you end up boiling your potatoes in recycled piss!
Pretty revulsive to us today, but who knows? Maybe our grandkids will find it completely normal.
Citizens figured the water's been through so many kidneys, it *has* to be pure....
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
It's a widely known "fact" in London (not sure if it's an urban myth or not - I suspect not) that water goes through the system seven times. So, there's a good chance your tap water is someone elses piss. Their extensive filtration means the water is actually pretty good.
Anyway, waste liquid has to go somewhere - a ski slope seems pretty mild compared to many alternatives.
Read reviews of shopping cart software
Avogadro, urine and eternal recycling
:-)
A calculation of what would happen if we'd dilute all the urine from one days urination of the world population into all the 1.4 billion trillions litres water on earth. Yes, thank god for the internet putting questions like these into rest.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
This wouldn't be Shit Creek, would it?
I personally would not be the least bit squeamish about this. First off, they make filters capable of filter guiarda(sp) and other microbes out. Even if they don't filter it out you can get rid of it by irradiating the water, or heck BOILING the water will kill most creepy crawlys. They can also filter other things that ain't so nice out of the water. If they make a filter that can filter chlorine out of the water at your house, then this filter or a similar one could work in this machine. They also recycle water on the shuttle because the weight of water costs so much for them to carry it up. They'd rather use as much weight for carrying satellites and other things that can help generate revenue then water for the astronauts.
Second, and I know some may dispute this, if we are running out of water where does it go? Water that evaporates down here usually turns up as a cloud and then rain somewhere on the planet. I know the planet isn't a closed system, but this water has to go somewhere. It doesn't just zoom off into space. I think that those who claim know have no idea what they are talking about when there's a water shortage. There's oceans full of it just wating to be desalinized. If they can find a economical process for desalinization, then most water problems could be solved.
Gorkman
Back in the early 90's my dad was on some summer program where professors would go and do work for NASA and then during the year be the regular profs that they were.
He was an analytical chemistry professor and then for NASA worked on the water filtration system for the Space Station.
The basic concept being that water is heavy at 8lbs/gal and so if they can limit how much they take up, they can use that saved weight towards carrying something else.
So they wanted to bring up a small fixed amount and then recycle out the waste - so when you took a leak, it would recover that and clean it out (with very similar methods to this article interestingly enough), and then... according to my dad - was usually cleaner than the water they brought on.
I was always puzzled at why they didn't just bring on cleaner water - but I suppose he was also hinting at the astronauts bringing some inside themselves as well... don't know.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Cells tend to rupture when frozen, either because the ice inside expands and bursts them (fast freezing) or because long, sharp, pointy ice crystals inside form and pierce the cell membrane (slow freezing). The temperatures typically found on ski slopes (within a few degrees of zero Celsius) are ideal for the formation of large ice crystals. There are also dehydration processes at work. Finally, cells left outside in slightly warmer weather still don't do well, because they'll starve to death. (Researchers who want to preserve cells long-term store them at liquid nitrogen temperatures to stop all metabolism.)
Recent research has suggested that freezing and thawing will also disable many viruses--apparently it damages the surface proteins they use to bind to our cells. Experiments conducted on freezing whole blood for storage revealed that freezing also inactivated much of the HIV in test samples. Some jurisdictions are now considering freezing all donated blood as an additional safety precaution before transfusion.
Not so say that freezing is a panacea--there are a number of nasties that will survive the process (encysted bad guys are often reisistant) but the frozen stuff is significantly cleaner than what came in, and it may well be cleaner than what's in most rivers.
Yes, I read the article, and yes, I realize that they filter and treat the water extensively before turning it to snow...but all that work might be overkill.
~Idarubicin
the concept of water purified through man-made means, as opposed to nature which most people are more used to. in singapore's case, they're currently pumping the purified water into reservoirs, just to let it sit in the open so the birds and fish can crap into it and let nature do a bit of its thing, before purifying it again to pump into the water supply. all this, just to satisfy the odd inhibitions that a lot of people have to consuming purified sewage. weak-minded people really do bother me sometimes.
Don't be so hasty to cast stones. Clearly there is a double standard, born of ignorance on the part of many. A small ski resort I visited used to pump icky water from a swamp and make snow from it. You could tell because the air smelled terrible when they were doing it and the snow had a yellowish tinge from algae. However, look at what advertising has told the consumer:
Beer from the land of sky blue waters (can you name it? :-)
Mountain spring water (yeah, right... all 50 zillion gallons of it every day, that's no spring it's a river, in Cal. it's probably pumped from Colorado or Owens River, read Cadillac Desert)
Then there's the simple test of putting two glasses of water in front of someone, filtered from the town well and recovered water. Don't tell them before they taste test, then see if they make a face and call a lawyer once you've explained one came from recovered water.
People have been trained, since before the Bible to avoid water touched by human waste, because bacteria and fungi which cause some pretty bad aflictions grow in it. That was wisdom, it may seem misguided, until you run a marketing campaign to change people's opinion, then catch the local water filtration manager cutting corners. It's probably happening in your town and you don't even know it.
Me, I put a filter on my drinking water, for whatever good it does. Which it does to some small noticable degree.
Water is getting poorer in quality and reuse isn't a new concept, but reuse is growing and people will need to accept it, because alternatives (desalination, for example) can be very expensive.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar