Xbox Linux Cluster

aeiz writes "Adam Cecchetti put together a Linux cluster using 3 modded Xboxes and was quite surprised with the results. He used the Mandrake Linux distro." illumin8 summarizes Cecchetti's conclusion after investigating "the cost-effectiveness (or lack thereof) and trouble involved in setting up a 3 node Linux cluster based on the Microsoft hardware. The end result: A cheaper Walmart PC would perform better at the same task."

Comments

Quick Summary... and a Why?

[mikeage]

Basically, this guy modded three XBox's, put on Mandrake, didn't like the minimal compillation tools it came with, fixed it, and is done. He was impressed with the network performance... not because it was so good, but because he thought it had 10Mbps (it has 100). Ding-dong.. hello... anyone home? Read the specs!

This is news why?

Re:Quick Summary... and a Why?

[ReelOddeeo]

Why would you want to buy an XBox for this in general?

If you RTFA you will see that he didn't buy them. He received funds from his university to do this. He remarks that the XBox worked great as a general computing platform.

So why would you want to do this in general? Because if you can get someone else to pay for it, you get three useful Linux computers to use for some period of time, in exchange for producing your experimental results.

Re:Quick Summary... and a Why?

[pyr0]

" but I would think you could buy just as powerful of a MB/CPU/RAM combo (actually, you could get a better CPU easily) cheaper..."

I think his point was to test if this is true or not. A lot of people posting about this story seem to be saying things like "well duh! everyone knows it would be slower," but they are saying these things in the absence of data. Suppose his cluster would have performed exceptionally well and was ridiculously easy to set up? The purpose of research is to test theories out and see if they hold up. The theory or idea he was testing in this case was the applicability of X-Box machines to making a cheap cluseter.

Re:Quick Summary... and a Why?

[qortra]

You can't do better than an Xbox for 150 or even 200 dollars. The video card on an Xbox is equivalent to an nVidia Ti 4600, which costs about 200 dollars alone. You do the math; unless the rest of the parts of negative value, the Xbox is already worth it. If the Xbox could be put to good use (esp as a general x86 gaming machine, or as mentioned, do clustering that supports video card computations), then it is entirely worth it. We just need not get stuck in the "I used a crappy install of a distro" phase.

Re:Nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

Possibly the furture of super-cheap supercomputers?

Ok, now I know it is too much trouble for the average slashdotter to actually read the articles before commenting, BUT PLEASE! How about READING THE FUCKING DESCRIPTION? Once again for the slow people: "The end result: A cheaper Walmart PC would perform better at the same task."

While it might be fun to mod an xbox to run linux to output content on a tv, it is worse than pointless to build a computational cluster with them.

Looks as if MS has succeded.

[RealAlaskan]

From the article's conclusion:

In conclusion, the XBOX functions well due to the work done by the XBOX Linux project. However the same or greater computing power could be obtained for an equal price, without the complications of modifying the XBOX. This makes the XBOX an unfit solution as a replacement for a personal computer or a cluster node.

MS has made a machine which it isn't practical to use for cheap computing power. It's possible to use the Xbox as a PC, and a few folks will do it, but it isn't practical, and I'm sure that's just what MS was aiming for.

Whether they actually lose money on every machine or not (and it surely doesn't sound as if marginal cost is greater than the price), they don't want their low margin hardware being snapped up by the thousands by pc-clustering scientists who will never buy a high margin game.

Xbox mods should focus on a PURPOSE

[Rolman]

Really, what would you expect? A cluster's main application is to increase the CPU cycles available for a given program. Raw CPU power is not Xbox's strength.

The Xbox mods should be focused on what makes them useful. No Wal-Mart PC would have Component Video Output or Digital Audio Output at $200. Xbox can be used as a cheap terminal but it will shine as a Media Player that allows you to use your existing content on your existing equipment in the same way a consumer electronics product would.

That's the real difference. A normal PC has many stupid quirks that are useful only when you have unpredictable hardware combinations, i.e. the dozens of volume controls (PCM, MIDI, Master, etc.) and different resolutions. These are not required in a DVD/TV/Stereo setup. And don't get me started on the so far terrible "desktop-on-your-TV" hacks on Video cards.

I'm looking for an Xbox mod that allows me to playback my content stored on ANOTHER computer through the network (the 10GB HDD on the thing would never be enough to store my files), and still be able to play my original, legally owned games in a non-intrusive way. Simplicity and ease-of-use are valued above all else in a console.

Now that would be a mod with a _real world_ purpose.

Re:Xbox mods should focus on a PURPOSE

[ilsie]

I'm looking for an Xbox mod that allows me to playback my content stored on ANOTHER computer through the network (the 10GB HDD on the thing would never be enough to store my files),

The current incarnation of XboxMediaPlayer has support for a remote streaming server called ReLaX. I use the win32 client on my PC downstairs, and stream mp3s, oggs, divx, etc. over wireless to my xbox upstairs. It works great. Also, the next rev of XBMP is supposed to include samba support.

and still be able to play my original, legally owned games in a non-intrusive way. Simplicity and ease-of-use are valued above all else in a console.

Although many people play XboxLive games on modded consoles (it involves disabling the mod chip thru a switch or some other method, and locking the hard drive, both very simple processes that basically reverts the Xbox back to a "pristine" unmodded state), you still have to initially mod the console to be able to use XBMP, which is of course an intrusive process.

Re:Interesting

[pla]

I thought that an xbox may run pretty well as a PC, but a wal-mart PC would be better? I'm pretty shocked at that considering how technologically 'good' it is for console games.

The guy who did this did NOT compare performance against Walmart Lindows PCs. In fact, the XBox *WOULD* beat the $199 Wallyworld boxes for performance. The XBox uses a 733Mhz PIII/celeron-like CPU (same specs except a 133Mhz FSB). The Walmart PC has an 800Mhz CPU, but uses a crappy VIA C3 processor (think "PII/400 at best" performance).

The linked article *ACTUALLY* claimed that using a Walmart PC would take less *EFFORT*, in that it wouldn't require a mod chip or dealing with proprietary but "PC-like" hardware. Quite a big difference from saying the Lindows machines would *perform* better.

Don't feel bad, apparently Slashdot editors don't read the links before making baseless comments either.

Cluster node:no Media Player:yes

[dmaxwell]

I think most of us could have told him those conclusions before he ran his tests. An X-Box is a PITA for a node or as a PC. That doesn't mean there is no practical use for Linux on one. With MPLayer and a few other pieces of software, an X-Box would make a nice media device for the living room. It wouldn't look completely out of place in a stereo rack and just basically has a better form factor than minitower PC. It's already equipped with TV out, an IR reciever and proper audio jacks.

As a bonus, throw MAME and few other games on it. True using an X-Box as Linux gaming machine won't satisfy hardcore gamers. It's just fine for simple games like Pac-Man and Madbomber. Kinda like an Atari 2600 with good graphics. That isn't always a bad thing.

ummm.... uhhh..

[tommck]

Yeah... that kinda stuff pisses me off!

I spent all day wrapping up some fresh salmon in aluminum foil and cooking it on my engine block..

After replacing the first two fish (fell inside the engine) and getting the engine steam cleaned, I realized that it's MUCH cheaper just to put the fish on the grill, or even use OVEN, believe it or not!

WTF!? Yeah, a PC is probably better than a GAME CONSOLE, you moron! This article was a REALLY weak attempt to bash Microsoft.

T

Cool hack; very bad performance evaluation

[Richard Mills]

It's cool that this fellow managed to hack this Xbox cluster together. But his methods for performance testing it are ridiculous. Beyond the lack of any meaningful benchmarking, hardware tuning, etc. there's a failure to consider why someone might want to stick a bunch of Xbox's together in the first place. Think about it...what is all of the hardware in the Xbox really suppose to support? GRAPHICS, duh. But this "performance evaluation" doesn't try to do anything with the graphics hardware. A more realistic evaluation of the benefits of clustering these would try to take advantage of the graphics processing power of the hardware. I'll guarantee that a $200 Wal-Mart PC would do much worse in parallel, realtime graphics rendering computations.

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy takes a machine that was designed to be good at graphics and use it in a cluster?

Then he whines about soldering the wires to make USB work? Doesn't he know you can buy them from LikSang?