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Advocates Join to Promote Desktop Linux
phatvibez writes "Cnet is running a story that says 'Several companies have joined to launch a consortium to promote Linux for desktop computers, a significant expansion for an operating system that today fits more comfortably on servers.' This is great news, I hope they actually do something and we see some great stuff come from this!" Another submission on this note: TweetZilla writes "According to ExtremeTech, Suse is taking a play from Xandros. Crossover Office and Plugin are now bundled into Suse's desktop to provide Windows and Office compatibility." Update: 02/04 18:18 GMT by T : Here's a link to the consortium's web site.
I guess the interesting parts is that all distros (Suse, Mandrake, Xandros) are KDE distros. So what is it? Some kind of KDE League revival with some extras (OpenOffice & CrossWeaver)?
A good place ot start understanding about design huristics is www.humanfactors.com/home/default.asp
With that said, after coding GUI's in Swing for 4 years (doing other non-code stuff now) focusing on productivity and usability for the end-user, I simply love Mas OSX's Aqua skin and the design of most Apple products. Very usable. A pleasure to look at. And a guide for any GUI developer to learn from. Search Apple's site for a design guide.
Before I get into my rant, I would like to explain my credintials. I am a CS major en route to GA tech (currently enrolled at Middle GA College), and I have been running linux for 5 years now. I am proficient with Java, Basic, C++, apache, Tomcat, Adobe Premiere, and general computer maintainance /upgrades. Ok now onto what Linux neds for the Desktop.
More hardware support! I have a Radeon 7500 AIW and gettin VIVO to work was evil and a half. Output to TV was worse, (framebuffer crashes and the like).
Multimedia support, Real One Player, Xine, XMMS, mplayer do alot here, but it could be better. Real One is slow and buggy (but better than nothing and now it has fullscreen support), Xine needs to be more user friendly (to be a desktop candidate) and mplayer needs a good, consistant frontend (at least it is stable and fast as hell though). I had no problem with command line though, and associating files with it in kde was a snap.
Video Editing needs to exist. Cinelerra is ok for now (I never got kino to work), but it is slow, unstable, and lacks many features (like chroma keying for green-screen effects). I did manage to create a video project though to completion on my box, but it was not easy.
What does Linux have that makes it a Windows competitor? One word, KDE. Konq is an awesome web browser and file manager (kills anything the explorer can do) Kicker is way more useful than the XP task bar, and themeing is easy. I would give Bill Gate's left arm for these featurs to be ported to Windows.
Oh yeah, Linux is also way faster than XP ever dreamed of being (gentoo w/ prelinking anyone?).
SecondSun
PS before I get anyone flaming me about GNOME, 5 years ago GNOME was slow and unstable. I went to KDE and have no other experience with GNOME, and I know nothing about GNOME. I am sure by now it is much different than it was back then and that it has many features, but I still use KDE exclusivly.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Really... is this a good idea? To make my mom use linux youd have to bloat the heck out of it, add in apps that make no sense in the way they work (outlook, etc..) and have a bunch of pointless fluff. All those things are what make windows horrible for people who have more than a basic knowledge of systems.
We, as knowledgeable computer users, want a more streamlined, less fluffed, more stable working enviroment. We know this, apparently others dont. Why this big push for Linux on desktops for the masses im not sure. It want created for this and making it like this is only going to make it bloated and unstable. Is this what we really want out of Linux? Do we want it filled with fluff and unwieldly apps just so Mom and Pop feel comfortable in it?
Now, I know someone is going to say "But you can install it like this and this and..." well that is true, but if the push is successful and it starts to seriously permiate the desktop market, don't you think that most if not ALL the major *nix distrubuters will start to package it like that?
The German government is funding the development of such Exchange/Outlook type groupware via the KDE people. You've also got Evolution as an Outlook replacement, and Oracle has a groupware server that Outlook can plug right into, and it has all of Exchange's functionality. Plus, there's the Bynari solution, which also replicates Exchange's functionality.
There are more an more alternatives every day.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
And I might consider using Windows if everything worked without fuss. My wife spent four hours trying to install TurboTax recently. Two hours with an Intuit tech support person. Never got it to work even after downloading every win2k sp available.
In my experience, that's par for the course.
Okay Mr Anon, apparently our views on the "computer experience" differ, which as I tried to convey in my post, is understandable. I am not forcing Windows down your throat, nor am I stating that my OS of choice is superior to yours. I am merely stating that for what I do with a computer, Linux quite frankly sucks. Does that mean I think that Linux is useless? Not at all. Just it doesnt do what I need it to do.
By the way, next time you flame, grow some balls and dont post anonymously...
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
The distros need to extend themselves to the idiot/grandma/secretary types everywhere. These people may not be looking for files with 'find', but they hold the checkbooks.
When a large company decides on a desktop, we're talking about a huge sweep in user base, everything from the techies that grumble or praise to the pointy-haired boss that is looking for the 'Any' key.
I'm not talking about slick windows to do what easy enough command-line params could do. Desktops need to be turnkey all the time. Even the concept of a WM is going to spin people. I advocate removing most concepts from end-users reaching them. Hence, why Apple wants OS X to be a bit on the "can't get there from here" appearance.
Cookie-cutter, die-cut desktops have a huge market, and the dumber they are, the more easily they're adopted by the masses. WebTV, AOL, MS XP and countless other ideas prove this again and again.
mug
Well, You'll see one coming shortly from Net Integration Technologies - we're currently in Beta for a product that allows Outlook, Webmail and Evolution to all talk to each other, exchange Calendaring information (including delegating user rights, etc.), assign Todo's, integrate contact lists, and pretty much all of the other commonly used features of Exchange.
(We're the same people who brought you WvDial, and a bunch of other stuff - check out open.nit.ca for more of the projects that we have done.
>The Evolution connector "cheats", it reads and
>processes OWA pages.
How do you know Outlook/Exchange is not doing the same?
News flash! Linux distributors promote Linux! Wonders never cease!
Seriously, why is this even newsworthy? This is what I'd expect these companies to do. About the only thing remotely interesting about this story is the shunning of Lindows, which is becoming more and more of a community bastard child by the day. When I read the headline here at first I was expecting to see a consortium led by the likes of IBM and HP - which would be a pretty important news story - but I don't think a bunch of Linux distributors getting together to promote their own wares is much to get all excited about.
We all (should) know that Linux has quite a ways to go as a desktop OS anyway, though most of the work needed is on interface and ease of use issues these days. It's making progress, but it's a bit too soon to really start promoting it as a Windows replacement for average users (despite what a lot of the zealots around here are probably going to say).
Ever heard of Mainsoft? They have a great porting framework for porting windows programs to several unixes including linux. That's what our company uses and I'd have to say it's pretty good and it even handles MFC, ATL, and COM. It reads the Visual Studio .dsp files and essentially just rebuilds the project for linux (or solaris, hpux, etc).
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
Want to know why openoffice is so freaking HUGE AND SLOW? It's because it uses its own toolkit, libs, and tools, instead of building on the standard libs kde and gnome provides.
Ultimatley, i think gnome office and koffice will beat open office into the ground because they are so much faster and lighter, and they are consistent.
Increased co-operation with the kde and gnome teams will help too, because all the tools are OUT THERE, they just need more organisation.
gecko lost out to khtml, and i think the same will happen to openoffice.
One of next big things for Gentoo must be Joe-oriented installer. Unfortunately, there is no agreement yet about what it should look like and how to develop it. But I can predict that will happen this year.
Less is more !
Interesting. I started out using Linux on my desktop and used it on ``servers'' later.
CNet is stuck in a rut with that kind of thinking. Client/server is dead guys. Computers are both nowadays (always have been, really) and what's holding you back from understanding that is all the fat-client propaganda that you have to unlearn.
Well, at least I tried.
Let's put it this way: I installed Windows twice after I thought I'd never want to go back. I went back both times. Back to OS/2 first, then back to Linux.
I started with Windows (like just about everyone here I guess). I wrote my school stuff with Word. I crashed and lost my data in win3.1, Win95 and NT4 like everybody else probably did at least once. I got hacked when I used the internet the first time in Windows 95. I searched for alternatives and found OS/2.
I went back to Win95 (b or c) when it came out because IBM didn't convince me to stay (OS/2 had convinced me, and I used it quite a long time - but IBMs marketing failures didn't). My small private BBS, which I started much later, stayed in OS/2 for about 4 years after that, until I moved and lost my ISDN lines.) I thought the 'new' Windows would be better, more stable, etc yadda yadda. I was disappointed.
I tried NT4. I was disappointed (my software didn't run, and the games we then played didn't either. Like Command&Conquer, which ran FINE under OS/2, even during a 33kbps BBS download).
I got Linux (SuSE 4.something from 1995) for Christmas in 1995 (I probably wouldn't have noticed it otherwise). I was disappointed by the usability (fvwm2) and the GUI but impressed by the number of (free) apps for it, which could do much of what I wanted (Staroffice was available, which covered the majority; and I had a licence for OS/2, which I traded for a Linux license; it wasn't free then). The only thing that I missed was FIDOnet software, and I had a feeling Linux then was suited more to developers and internet geeks, both of which I wasn't really. It wasn't comfortable, but it worked, and never crashed on my even once.
But after half a year my SuSE /usr/local partition was bigger than the rest of the system (because I probably was too stupid for the packaging system) and my system was quite a mess - probably self-induced, I experimented too much. I tried NT4 again - not all apps worked (eg. FIDOnet software was available for 95, but didn't run in NT4, and FEddy was available for Linux then. Don't even start asking about games, of which some even worked in dosEMU under Linux!). That was in 1996 IIRC.
After some months I totally trashed NT with a service pack install which crashed during installation. Then something snapped inside me - I wasn't about to trust my data to Windows again. Ever. I'd rather install something, ANYTHING, else (I wasn't far away from buying a Mac, if they'd been affordable to a student then). I experimented with several Linux distributions during holidays and found that except for Debian, all the 'big' ones were quite similar to SuSE - RPM packaging, no easy updates, etc.
I installed my Debian system during the 1996-7 christmas holidays (took me two days to get a useable system, with 'bo' aka Debian 1.3 IIRC). It took me about two weeks to understand the system and get everything running - I wasn't about to make the same mistake I made with SuSE.
But the reward was there - I haven't reinstalled since. I backup this system regularly. It has moved over two hard disk crashes, about 10 hard disk upgrades, uncountable system upgrades (eg. libc5->6, X11 3.x->4.x, perl 4.x-5.0-5.6-5.8, etc etc) and about a dozen machine upgrades (started with a P60/16MB, I'm now using an Athlon XP 1800+ with 256MB RAM). It doesn't become slower with every new program like Windows. (Windows wasn't really worth backing up because I had to reinstall it every couple months anyway.) When I remove things, they get removed cleanly. It doesn't have conflicts between drivers or software, unless I install experimental stuff.
About 1998 I decided to patch a server together with spare parts: I wanted to resurrect my BBS and an ISDN dialup. I copied my Debian installation to the second harddisk, removed non-server related packages (X11, Staroffice, etc), installed server-related packages, removed my /home from the first machine, mounted /home via NFS from the second, and there we were. In 2001 I got a laptop. Copied my installation over, removed some packages, added APM and ACPI, changed the X11 driver line and resolution, ready.
Well... I've used Windows for quite a long time. I am even now using Windows from time to time. As long as I don't have to maintain it and keep it running and the apps I need, it's fine. But as soon as you start doing serious stuff with it, Windows breaks in my hands. If I use Windows as I use Linux, it crashes, apps don't react, etc and people tell me that's "normal", even with Windows 2000, I'm supposed to be more careful and open less apps at the same time.
I don't accept that. When I work I'm not a "hacker" or "freak", I just like to get my job done (which often enough is creating a presentation with Openoffice or writing technical documentation or developing a website). But if I can't have several text editors, office files, GIMP/Photoshop or Corel Photopaint sessions and file manager windows open without the OS throwing up, I'm not being productive.
So: I went back to Linux. Maybe Windows is easier for the 'casual' user. But please don't suggest sandals to a mountain climber, even if they are more comfortable and look better.
(Oh yes: the OS installs tend to overlap, I had two harddisks and when I changed I installed the 'new' OS on the 'other' harddisk and kept both for a period of time, when possible. So don't nail me about the exact dates, I don't remember some of them either.)
And please don't start the "much more apps available for Windows" discussion: I'ts totally true, if you count a) all the things that Linux can do without extra apps, and b) all the viruses and worms. And anyway, who needs 4711 file managers/ICQ clients/graphics programs/..., it's much more efficient to cooperate and put all the good features into one product, which in free software tends to happen much more often than in the commercial/shareware world.
OK, I'm finished.
Go on. You can flame me now.
Home Page
The article noted the absence of Lindows, but a more conspicuous absentee from the consortium's list is Red Hat. While Red Hat is an enthusiastic Gnome supporter that employs few (if any) KDE developers, this list is heavy with KDE supporters. Notably, Ark Linux is a project started by Bero, that ex-Red Hatter who quit because he thought Red Hat "crippled" KDE. Am I reading too much into this? Anybody know more?
An "Outlook/Exchange killer".
Lotus Notes.
The fact that IBM has yet to release a native client only shows how uninformed they are. The only reason that they use Linux in the first place is because it saves them from spending development dollars on their own *nix solution. While I'm certainly not complaining about this (both OSS and IBM benefit from this relationship), I'd really like them to be a 'pioneer' like they claim to be.
And why does this story have anything to do with Linux, which has nothing in the way of a graphical environment merged into the tree, as of yet. KDE/X and Gnome/X are the current leaders here. And those can be used on more than just Linux.
Gratuitous alternative desktop environment suggestion: don't let applications save user documents to 'just anywhere' like Windows does. Then, create a user-level system browser that keeps the user out of the stuff that is irrelevant to them.
With the current Windows environment, I see the same thing all the time. Although recent versions of Windows Explorer will tell user's that they shouldn't be picking around in PROGRAM FILES, the SAVE feature doesn't. So Joe User decides to start saving his office documents in C:\PROGRAM FILES\MICROSOFT OFFICE because that makes sense to him when he/she becomes accustomed to the PC for the first time. If this person only had the choice of saving it to a document store (of all or some of the PC's user's), this confusion wouldn't be there.
Then create a system-level browser that can view things at the file level - for people who need to do this. I certainly don't need this functionality more than 5% of the time and I support this for a living. Separate the user-level and system-level browsing.
And don't even get me started on a standard for program installs. Currently, a Windows install can put crap in the following places:
1) Start Menu
2) Task Bar
3) Quick Launch
4) Desktop
Not to mention the fact that most menus and folders are full of gratuitous advertising. There's no reason that Easy CD Creator needs to add a ROXIO folder in the Program Files or in the Start Menu. As a matter of fact, the start menu should have a UTILTIES folder in it and the program should be required to install a shortcut there and only there. A splash screen could accomodate the uninstall shortcut and related documentation. There's no reason that every software package get it's own start menu group...
Am I rambling? How do I contribute to usability improvements? Linux is at its infancy and has the chance to do everything right.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Please provide more balanced coverage of KDE on your site.
If you demand it of SuSE, why don't you practice it here? Maybe enough with the "GNOME is preferred", "GNOME is better"? If GNOME is so good, why doesn't the default work well? If you can say "GNOME is preferred", why shouldn't SuSE say "KDE is preferred"? Fair is fair.
In Red Hat, all KDE wants is to not be *purposely* crippled. A default set-up of KDE in Red Hat would make *everyone* except GNOME lovers happy. A default set-up of GNOME makes GNOME people mad.
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
Does anyone remember the OSF or COSE or any of their products (Motif, OSF/1, CDE...) with anything but derision? Does anyone remember COSE, which was going to turn back the tide and bring Microsoft to its knees, at all?
Also, that website is a retina-searing chunk of ass. Way to convince me you can design a great desktop.
Posted with Mozilla
lspci -n >> makekerlelconfig >> /usr/kernel/aconfigthatworks
/proc/bus/usb/devices
/usr/kde/3/stupiddefaulttheme
cat
Now, a little bit of X config, don't forget to set a reasonable mode of group for DRI or your users will be DRI less.
oh... supermount the CD, no scsi-ide because cdrtools supports IDE packet writing now...
emerge kde & emerge openoffice
time passes........
setup sound modules...
rm -f
kdm
easy.