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Extreme Programming for Web Projects

PinglePongle writes with this review of Addison Wesley's Extreme Programming for Web Projects, writing "The authors work for a web shop, building websites for customers, and try to use their experience to make life easier for their readers. Their main point concerns how traditional web projects are structured to leave at least one of the parties taking a big risk on the project: if the project is 'fixed price, fixed scope' the developers take all the risk, if it's 'time & materials' the customer takes a risk -- they can not be sure their money will lead to whatever it is they want." Read on to see whether the authors have successfully outlined a fairer, more successful system in the rest of PinglePongle's review, below. Extreme Programming for Web Projects author Doug Wallace, Isobell Raggett, Joel Aufgang pages 165 publisher Addison Wesley rating Poor reviewer PinglePongle ISBN 0201794276 summary A book about applying the Extreme Programming methodology to web projects.

Can good ideas dominate the buzzwords? This risk -- the authors contend -- is the reason many web development projects fail in one way or another. The client's objective is to obtain maximum value, the developer's to incur the least cost possible without getting sued.

The authors show a way in which this risk can be shared fairly between the client and the developer, by using XP and iterative development cycles, alongside a release plan, to acknowledge the risks inherent in a development project, and manage them rather than try to pretend they don't exist. The project team -- client and developer -- work together to create an iteration plan, and use this shared understanding of the requirements to guide the project.

The book is structured into 4 parts: Part 1: XP and Web Projects explores the problems associated with web development projects. Part 2, Working on Web XP Projects explores some of the practicalities of the authors' process - iterative development cycles, the development environment, team roles, and the graphic design process. Part 3: XML and Web XP is a bit of an oddity in a methodology book -- it focuses on some technology-specific issues which the authors claim can be addressed by using XML. Part 4: Web XP Best Practices discusses planning, design, coding and testing issues.

What's good about this book? Well, there are some insights into the relationship between suppliers and customers in development projects. (I don't believe, though, that they're as specific to web projects as the authors seem to claim).

What's bad about this book? It seems to be a sales brochure for the author's web shop -- "we do things thusly, and it yields fantastic results every time." The text is full of fairly broad, even sweeping statements ("Many programmers put SQL code right on a web page" -- when was the last time you saw a select statement on a web page ?).

The authors do not really seem to be able to identify those aspects which make web development projects different from other types of development. Some of the team roles they recommend are bizarre -- the authors identify the role of "Strategist" who seems to help those poor idiot customers to understand their own business. This may be necessary on some projects, but I find this attitude very condescending -- the days when web development was portrayed as a cross between alchemy and spiritual enlightenment are long gone. Many of the sections are very superficial, but the book is littered with footnotes saying "Chapter X discusses this in detail."

In short, I'd say this book is too lightweight for people who understand XP already and want to learn how it applies to web projects, and novices are likely to get hung up on the largely redundant side tracks (CVS versus MS Sourcesafe -- Huh? How did that get past the editors?) to be able to see the extreme wood for the trees.

You can purchase Extreme Programming for Web Projectsfrom bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

11 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. reliability by monadicIO · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Somehow, I would never trust an "extreme programmed" program. I feel (perhaps just a prejudice) that extreme programming is a "do now, think later" kind of approach. I'd be interested in knowing if there have been studies with respect to reliability of extreme programmed projects.

    --

    The law of excluded middle : Either I'm foo or I'm foobar

    1. Re:reliability by kryzx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This comment shows a lack of understanding of the most basic principal of XP: your requirements are defined by your tests, if it passes the tests it passes the requirements.

      If a program passes all the tests, but doesn't work the way you want it to, your tests are not good, i.e. you requirements are wrong or incomplete.

      The main argument against XP is that some systems are so complex that you cannot build tests to cover all the functionality. Take for example a Quake engine. The combinations of objects, positions, orientations and actions are virtually infinite, so it is impossible to write tests to cover everything. For a system like this XP is not the right approach, and the creators of XP would tell you that.

      --
      "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
    2. Re:reliability by kryzx · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The XP practices dictate how you capture and prioritize your user requirements and how you test your code, and they encourage simple and immediately neccesary design, but they do not dicatate anything about how you actually code your application.

      The practices try to make it easier to produce good code design, but they could be applied to any design methodology. You could do XP Object-Oriented or not, with Java, COBOL, perl, basic, or assembler. There is nothing to make your software design good or bad except your skillz and the developer sitting next to you.

      So, I'd say XP doesn't enforce any coding methodology, but tries to create an environment that encourages good habits.

      Maybe we are having semantic issues. I was talking about the methods for designing at a fairly low implementation level the actual code that makes an application work - the parent comment here expressed concern about code made under XP being sloppy. That's what I meant by design. If you talk about RUP or Waterfall as a design methodology then obviously they are incompatible with XP.

      --
      "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
  2. Buzzword compliant. by bscanl · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds like it hasn't got much actual XP in it.

    Surely not another book with a buzzword in the title that doesn't actually focus on the alledged subject at hand?!

  3. wtf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    when was the last time you saw a select statement on a web page ?

    About 10 seconds ago on my current project. I fail to see why I should make a seperate file and include it for one SQL statement, or even for the 20 or so I use...

    Can anyone explain the logic behind this? If they mean "when was the last time you saw SQL directly put in the html", then the answer would be never apart from the mysql manual...but then surely thats obvious...if they mean "when was the last time you saw SQL in a page-generating script", then I don't get the problem.

    1. Re:wtf by mattc58 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, you want your SQL well away from you presentation level code. Besides any architectural and performance reasons, it's just good practice for maintenance. Your presentation layer really shouldn't care/know that the data it's putting on a screen is coming from this table on that database on that server. It should be a few layers below this that you get into these kind of fun details.

    2. Re:wtf by clearcache · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are precisely right...and this hits upon the reason why so many websites are unmaintainable.

      Many web programmers don't know the difference between the presentation layer, business logic, etc...and they just throw it all together. You end up with a site that works great in its current version...but is a bear to add functionality to or redesign visually.

  4. XP is a manager's dream by HarmlessScenery · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How else can you do a major cost cutting exercise (only buying half the PC's you actually need) and at the same time con your geeks into believing that you are following the leading edge of software dev ?

  5. Reliability is the point. by Joseph+Vigneau · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Somehow, I would never trust an "extreme programmed" program. I feel (perhaps just a prejudice) that extreme programming is a "do now, think later" kind of approach.

    Then you don't understand the whole approach. XP evolved by taking good programming practices (automated testing, peer code review, "integration builds", client communication, etc.), and kind of going overboard with them. As a result, it typically generates higher quality deliverables. For example, in XP, before you write code, you write the test first. Instead of weekly code review meetings, you code with someone else. Instead of everyone writing their code in isolation, then slamming it together to see if it all works, you see if your code works together all the time. Instead of waiting for one or two business days to get a requirement clarification from the customer, you get that information from them much sooner.

    There are more practices such as these that make up XP. I've worked on many projects, particularly with the big consultancies, that use waterfall-type methodologies that fail. A 600 page design document is useless when the requirements change during the project, which they always do, due to market demands, time constraints, etc. XP is no silver bullet, but it makes a lot of sense after you've been through lots of projects that go over budget, without all the desired features, even after working 80 hour weeks.

  6. Optional Scope is a non-starter by billtom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh goody, another XP flame war on /. I might as well jump in the fire.

    Well, I worked at a web shop for a few years (though, that was during the bubble, maybe things have changed now) and I looked into using XP because many aspects of it seemed to fit our needs. But one aspect always hung me up and that was that XP projects are basically optional scope contracts.

    Basically, the clients always wanted to see the whole site (at least mockups) before they would sign off on the work. Even if we all knew that there was likely to be significant changes along the way.

    Saying something like "let's get broad agreement on the general nature of the site and then work in iterations to refine the details. Now please sign this contract for three months of work for four developers" just didn't work.

    Now, XP proponents will claim that this can be overcome by educating the client. I'll just say that that wasn't my experience. Optional scope contracts just wouldn't fly. Other XP proponents might say to hide the process from the client and make an XP project look, to the outside, like a waterfall with very flexible change management, but I wasn't happy with that sort of methodological dishonesty.

    I think that this problem with optional scope is a problem not just with web sites but with any project where contractor and client are different companies. Most of the XP success stories I've heard are on projects where the client is an internal division of the same company, so things are a little less confrontational and more flexible.

  7. But there is an important question here... by sbrylow · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ...and the reviewer captured it - I'd like some discussion on this point:
    --- at least one of the parties taking a big risk on the project: if the project is 'fixed price, fixed scope' the developers take all the risk, if it's 'time & materials' the customer takes a risk---

    I've seen plenty of this and I believe it's nearly always true. And I think the reviewer is correct in stating that this is not unique to web projects.

    So, with that in mind, I'll assert that it would be overall _more efficient_ (less waste of money and resources) if both parties were able to manage uncertainty and risk in projects in a less adversarial manner.

    Call me on that assertion if you want, but risk management is an important part of managing the software development process for just that reason. So, why _not_ come up with a better way to manage risk across organizations??

    I don't think contracts are bad things (just the opposite) and I don't have The Answer...but I'm imagining a better contractural toolkit and a better set of development and project methodologies that allow some uncertainty and flexibility and assigns risk at a more granular level than 100%-0% or vice versa...

    For an analogy that's pretty far afield, I saw a report recently that said something like 50% of mergers and acquisitions fail to add value, but if the M&A was contested or if there were multiple bidders, it goes up to 70-80%. Demonstrating, I think, that while people enter into contracts freely, those entities or contracts that are more adversarial are more wasteful of resources ;^)

    OK, let's all get out there and fix the consulting business so it's more fun to work on projects for clients...:^) Comments??
    --
    Faster, better, cheaper; pick any two.