* I don't see the syntactic overhead comment. It seems pretty reasonable to me.
* It's better than Java on the OO front. Much cleaner, without the C/C++ baggage.
.NET Remoting is a direct answer to CORBA for distributed systems. WebServices can also be used as such. So I think the practice of putting CORBA and.NET in the same sentence is valid.
ODBC, OLE, COM, COM+, WebServices (they had a big part in it), and the entire Windows interface, to which thousands of other software systems have been written.
I think really more to the point is that Microsoft sets standards. Some of you might not like that Microsoft sets standards through its market power (legally or illegally gained), but they do indeed set standards.
Now as for why they are leaving the Web Services group I don't know. Since they are a pioneer in that it seems a bit strange to me.
I just finished writing an article for an online magazine on object databases and.NET. You might want to look into Matisse. It's got bindings for all the popular languages, it's an object database, and it's got SQL interfaces. Nice.
And I'll point everybody to my article when it's published.
I wrote and marketed the first native provider for MySQL on the.NET platform. I've gotten a big hit out of this when I go for new clients. Of course this is a commercial product for me so it's not open source, but MySQL is open source so I think that there is some value here.
Interested parties can check out www.einfodesigns.com though I would add that this is a shameless plug.:)
Well that's a deficiency MySQL is presently fixing, but in the meantime just don't use stored procedures. You still need to split your code into tiers, but your data access tier will just use dynamic SQL, no SPs.
Yeah, you want your SQL well away from you presentation level code. Besides any architectural and performance reasons, it's just good practice for maintenance. Your presentation layer really shouldn't care/know that the data it's putting on a screen is coming from this table on that database on that server. It should be a few layers below this that you get into these kind of fun details.
The code behinds do help, but SQL shouldn't be in there either. Put it in another tier (or two preferably) behind.
Same as Java or any other multi tiered system. Presentation-->Code behind(for.NET)-->Business Objects-->Data Access Objects-->Database.
Come on guy. You can like Microsoft or not like Microsoft, like VB or not like VB, like ASP or not like VB, but I don't see how you couldn't be productive with.NET and Visual Studio.NET. Give them their due--it's a perfect development environment.
It is a pain to go through these guys, especially when you can technically create your own. If there were one big central free place that monitored stuff it would work. But I guess it would have to be trusted like Verisign and the like presently are.
Never again. Never again. And I tell you, I don't feel so worried now that I've worked with these Indian firms and Indian developers. Not worried at all over the long term.
Seconded. I've used this on my last project to some good effect. Just having a 15 minute meeting a day and breaking things into 30 day "Sprints" works wonders.
Best IDE and debugger around, bar none. To be honest, one of the first debuggers which actually works all the way through. You can debug from a POST event on a web page, through the code-behind code, through the middle tiers, and all the way into the stored procedures. Nice.
I don't know about you, but being presented with a project in that way would be demoralizing, not to mention weird.
I think you've misunderstood. It's the opposite of demoralizing--the management is trusting the development team implicitly to get the job done. They are setting up the environment for the team, then getting the hell out of the way.
At the very least, I'd go for a methodology that has actual printed books (e-texts are great for source code and learning languages, but lousy for the philosophy or process of programming, IMHO) that you can refer to with your back to a computer. Right now it looks like to learn about Scrum, you hire (a) consultant(s) to come to your business and teach it to you, which sounds like an expensive proposition to me.
Check out __Agile Software Development with Scrum__, by Ken Schwaber and Mike Beedle. It's a real, honest to goodness printed book!
I'm not involved with Scrum, just a consultant/developer implementing a new.NET project with a green team. I'm happy.
Go to http://www.controlchaos.org and check out Scrum.
Agile methods in general are much more appealing to me. You really cannot control the modern software world with methods created for factories and the like, no matter how many thousands of documents you write.
of course since the languages are so similiar why not just use Java in the first place?
Yeah, it's not really all about language choice at this point.
You'd chose.NET over J2EE for:
Superb development environment for much greater productivity. Perfectly integrated database, XML, source control, web page, middle tier, etc. etc. development
Well thought-out framework with all sorts of good stuff already done for you
ASP.NET WebForms--really a fantastic way to program web pages
I'm telling you,.NET makes it tough to go back to J2EE. With the combination of a superb IDE, a well thought out framework, superb abstraction from the platform, and performance better than Java, you can't go wrong.
It's unclear whether Mozilla development will ascend to a point where it truly threatens Microsoft. Mozilla certainly isn't the first "platform" challenger. Netscape and Java were the last such efforts. Microsoft, with its Windows monopoly, always seems to have a way to neutralize what initially appear to be strong threats to its way of doing things.
Yes, I think this is hitting close to the head.
If a project uses a more Agile methodology (and I use the word very loosely here) from the beginning, they can stop some of this.
Check out Scrum or Extreme Programming and how they deal with this sort of thing.
Slashdot Mirror
The way I read this is that VB6 is going way. I would imagine that VB.NET usage is holding steady.
Just two comments on your otherwise good post:
* I don't see the syntactic overhead comment. It seems pretty reasonable to me.
* It's better than Java on the OO front. Much cleaner, without the C/C++ baggage.
.NET Remoting is a direct answer to CORBA for distributed systems. WebServices can also be used as such. So I think the practice of putting CORBA and .NET in the same sentence is valid.
ODBC, OLE, COM, COM+, WebServices (they had a big part in it), and the entire Windows interface, to which thousands of other software systems have been written.
And I'm sure I'm forgetting some others.
I think really more to the point is that Microsoft sets standards. Some of you might not like that Microsoft sets standards through its market power (legally or illegally gained), but they do indeed set standards.
Now as for why they are leaving the Web Services group I don't know. Since they are a pioneer in that it seems a bit strange to me.
It's interesting that you bring this up.
.NET. You might want to look into Matisse. It's got bindings for all the popular languages, it's an object database, and it's got SQL interfaces. Nice.
I just finished writing an article for an online magazine on object databases and
And I'll point everybody to my article when it's published.
I wrote and marketed the first native provider for MySQL on the .NET platform. I've gotten a big hit out of this when I go for new clients. Of course this is a commercial product for me so it's not open source, but MySQL is open source so I think that there is some value here.
:)
Interested parties can check out www.einfodesigns.com though I would add that this is a shameless plug.
Well that's a deficiency MySQL is presently fixing, but in the meantime just don't use stored procedures. You still need to split your code into tiers, but your data access tier will just use dynamic SQL, no SPs.
Yeah, you want your SQL well away from you presentation level code. Besides any architectural and performance reasons, it's just good practice for maintenance. Your presentation layer really shouldn't care/know that the data it's putting on a screen is coming from this table on that database on that server. It should be a few layers below this that you get into these kind of fun details.
The code behinds do help, but SQL shouldn't be in there either. Put it in another tier (or two preferably) behind. .NET)-->Business Objects-->Data Access Objects-->Database.
Same as Java or any other multi tiered system. Presentation-->Code behind(for
I'll definitely go along with properties. I find them to be a much more elegant solution than many getXXX() and setXXX() methods.
Come on guy. You can like Microsoft or not like Microsoft, like VB or not like VB, like ASP or not like VB, but I don't see how you couldn't be productive with .NET and Visual Studio .NET. Give them their due--it's a perfect development environment.
It is a pain to go through these guys, especially when you can technically create your own. If there were one big central free place that monitored stuff it would work. But I guess it would have to be trusted like Verisign and the like presently are.
Never again. Never again. And I tell you, I don't feel so worried now that I've worked with these Indian firms and Indian developers. Not worried at all over the long term.
Seconded. I've used this on my last project to some good effect. Just having a 15 minute meeting a day and breaking things into 30 day "Sprints" works wonders.
Not so. They've actually frozen out on features for a while now. I'm a beta tester on the product--the new IIS 6.0 is nice.
Best IDE and debugger around, bar none. To be honest, one of the first debuggers which actually works all the way through. You can debug from a POST event on a web page, through the code-behind code, through the middle tiers, and all the way into the stored procedures. Nice.
I think you've misunderstood. It's the opposite of demoralizing--the management is trusting the development team implicitly to get the job done. They are setting up the environment for the team, then getting the hell out of the way.
Check out __Agile Software Development with Scrum__, by Ken Schwaber and Mike Beedle. It's a real, honest to goodness printed book!
I'm not involved with Scrum, just a consultant/developer implementing a new
Go to http://www.controlchaos.org and check out Scrum.
Agile methods in general are much more appealing to me. You really cannot control the modern software world with methods created for factories and the like, no matter how many thousands of documents you write.
I can verify this post. I am an ISV with a product for MySQL. Their understanding of the licensing issues is confusing at best.
You'd chose
Superb development environment for much greater productivity. Perfectly integrated database, XML, source control, web page, middle tier, etc. etc. development
Well thought-out framework with all sorts of good stuff already done for you
ASP.NET WebForms--really a fantastic way to program web pages
Multiple languages in one project
Performance on the Windows platform
Idiot, lunatic, blah blah blah. You guys kill me.
I'm telling you, .NET makes it tough to go back to J2EE. With the combination of a superb IDE, a well thought out framework, superb abstraction from the platform, and performance better than Java, you can't go wrong.
Of course, I'll just be called a M$ lunatic...
I guess we'll see.
Yes, I think this is hitting close to the head. If a project uses a more Agile methodology (and I use the word very loosely here) from the beginning, they can stop some of this. Check out Scrum or Extreme Programming and how they deal with this sort of thing.