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Why Users Hate IT Products and Developers

bfwebster writes "The Washington Post has a commentary by one of its regular columnists, Marc Fisher, on why computer users hate what he terms 'our techie masters.' One of his more pungent and, I suspect, on-the-money comments: 'Computer training has become the living hell of the American workplace...each new system is more confounding than the last, and each new product strips away many of the advantages of the previous system.' Not a Luddite screed; more an angry outburst asking why commercial software systems are often so wretched. Worth reading and pondering."

21 of 792 comments (clear)

  1. In short... by ZeroConcept · · Score: 5, Funny

    The short answer would be:
    RTFM

    1. Re:In short... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This post is a terrific example of why users hate developers.

      It has been proven people learn and think differently. People (at least end users -- that is to say, people with lives) use the computer to get work done. It's a tool, just like a hammer. A carpenter can't keep re-learning how to use a hammer over and over. A writer or assistant or office worker can't afford to keep re-learning how to use their tools (like computers).

      someone who can't figure out that the "align center" button has moved three places over

      Oh, please. You are going out of your way to insult people. While some may have that trouble, you might be working with someone who learns best by location and spatial relationships. Was there any reason to change that interface?

      That's part of the problem -- as stated in the article. Developers are piss-poor at understanding that not everyone thinks like they do.

      If we (as developers) are designing products for the end user, than it is our job, plain and simple, to produce a product that meets their needs. If you're unable to do that, or don't like trying to understand how other people think and learn and work, then go out and find another job that will let you hide in a cubicle and not force you to learn interpersonal skills.

      It's funny -- most of the replies in this topic basically prove what the article said -- that IT people have poor people skills and can't understand that different people think and work in different ways. Most of the replies are people pissing and moaning that users are stupid.

      I guess IT people -- those of us who are so smart -- just aren't smart enough to "get it." We can figure out things that work with ones and zeroes, but we just aren't smart enough to figure out complex systems like human thinking.

      Oh, and I'm posting this anonymously becuase I've seen how nasty people here can get when someone dares to hold up a mirror to them and say, "See how stupid you're acting?" Instead of looking at themselves, they would rather shoot and maim the messenger than even try to deal with the fact that the message may be valid.

    2. Re:In short... by nehril · · Score: 5, Insightful

      USERS ARE MORONS

      while this is largely true, it's also true that "tech people" whose job it is to deal with the technology itself often forget that the point is the work to be done, NOT the tech process. So your accounting user may be a "tech moron," but that's ok, because their job is not technology, but accounting. By most accountant standards, *I* am a "financials moron," but they don't hold it against me, that's why we BOTH have jobs. Really, it's better this way.

      a LOT of the complaining is from someone who can't figure out that the "align center" button has moved three places over

      the problem is this: If a user, in the course of doing their REAL job, finally knows where the print button is, what happens when an "upgrade" moves it? well, that means looking at and clicking on every button that exists on the screen to find the new one. That's time not spent doing their actual job (accounting or press releases or whatever) and is time "wasted." Why, exactly, does the print button need to be moved?

      Look at your average program interface: how many clickable items are on the screen? count em, and now search em ALL from the perspective of someone who's not used to reverse engineering UIs (consider that "smart users" are the ones who have a good reverse-engineering-a-new-UI skillset). Then ask yourself why the result of "right click on Network Neighborhood" changed from windows NT to windows 2000. Any good reason? Anyone?

      I am no mechanic, and it would royally piss me off if the gas/brake pedals moved every time I brought the car into the shop. It also TOTALLY pisses me off if somebody moves my car seat from it's "perfect driving position." The car software analogy doesn't really fly far, but the emotional attachment people get to a certain way of working is very similar. It's just that car manufacturers respect that, and software UI engineers don't.

      So don't flame on USER MORONS too much. The "smart programmers" should use their powers for Good, and maybe avoid the temptation to put 1700 clickable items onscreen at once, then shuffle them every release in order to be "New."

  2. The Non-technical aren't the target audience by Keighvin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The software is usually designed for the wrong reason in the first place: to fulfill a marketability niche seen by some buzz-word driven demand. It's sold from a marketing and sales rep, whose usual job description could be summed up under "schmooz with customer", who pulls out his checklist of latest technologies to make sure he promises X, Y, Z and hyperbaric interoperability with toasters from obscure places like Kansas.

    These requirements and obscure promises are handed to engineering who satisfy the technical aspect and ship it. Never have any of the QA departments I've seen have a dedicated usability expert; most of the QA engineers were just re-tasked programmers without any HCI design principle background or experience.

    So, since corporate and enterprise level software development is driven by the sale by those out of touch with the true needs of those making use of the software the incredibly wide gap develops that frustrates the @#$( out of everybody.

    --
    Any spoon would be too big.
  3. Games could be the answer by nebular · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perhaps when developing a new system the developers could take some time to study the methodologies that are used in the gaming market. After all Games are highly technical but must be very easy to learn and use to be popular.

    If anything they might start thinking more about the end user then they do right now

    1. Re:Games could be the answer by budgenator · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A very long time ago, I took a class called systems analysis. In this class they taught to design computer systems by using very radical technics like;
      Asking people how they work

      watching them work to make sure they did what they said they were doing or even working with them

      Asking people what would make there work easier, faster

      Letting them make changes to the user interface and participate in testing

      It sounds like all of they radical ideas never took. If the workers don't like say using MS office, then get new people. If the business doesn't fit a Quickbooks template, change your bussiness rules. Why do Games work for their users and business programs don't is an easy one, Game programmers play games, bussiness programmers usualy don't run businesses they work for them.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    2. Re:Games could be the answer by CVaneg · · Score: 5, Funny
      Perhaps when developing a new system the developers could take some time to study the methodologies that are used in the gaming market. After all Games are highly technical but must be very easy to learn and use to be popular.

      I can see it now:

      Drone1: Were you here all night?

      Drone2: Yeah, I just kept on filling out TPS reports, and before I knew it, the sun was coming up. I just need to fill out a couple more before I level up to Middle Management!

      Drone1: Sweet!

      Drone2: Yeah, I can't wait to use my new "Schedule Meeting" power.

  4. User Interface is VERY important by masonbrown · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Example - Sniffer. Great piece of software. Does everything you could want. But it's so confusing with random tabs all over the place, buttons that are similar but do different tasks in different parts of the program, and completely lacking in intuitive interface....

  5. Commercial software? by cygnusx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not a Luddite screed; more an angry outburst asking why commercial software systems are often so wretched.

    Heh, let's give 'em all Linux kernels to play with, and sendmail.cf files and procmail filters too while we're about it, and watch their eyes shine with joy as they appreciate the wonders of the non-commercial world...

    Er, maybe not.

  6. You've got the schematic, what's the problem?? by mr.+methane · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is a good point there. Users don't always understand what they want, or can't think through the "unintended consequences" of a system change. They see the result, not the process.

    But on the other hand, I know that us geeks have a tendency to read our own agenda into what we're asked to provide, and to ride hard on anyone who disagrees with our intepretation of "how it should be". We deliver a wonderful process, and if it has a good result, that's just icing on the cake.

    I used to work with a group of professional architects, and I learned a lot from watching them take user input, question it, refine it, and try to turn it into a project. They spent a lot more time learning about the customer's personality, what sorts of things they liked and didn't like... and the ones who were consistently loved by customers were the ones who were the best listeners.

    (A nickle to the first person to identify the person I quoted above!)

  7. It is because...... by Chardish · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In software..

    1) Corporations think it's a good idea to add more features to their software.
    2) Corporations have no idea what people actually want to do with their software's new features.
    3) Corporations fail to realize that what we often want are not new features, but actually smoother design, better ease of use, more speed, and more stability.

    Thus, what we get is "bloatware" such as ICQ - where so many new "features" are added to the program that it becomes impossible to use and navigate even when you want to use the program for even the simplest functions. (When I got the latest version of ICQ it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to add a new contact by UIN#.) AIM is headed this way, too.

    I can't stand Office XP because of all the stupid features you don't need.

    Even Office 97 has a large plethora of thoroughly useless features.
    Send To Routing Recipient, Send To Fax Recipient, Footnotes, Comments, Document Map, Field, Cross-Reference, Index & Tables, Insert Object, Insert Bookmark, Look Up Changes, Track Changes, Change Case, Style Gallery, Merge Documents, Letter Wizard, Formula

    It gets worse as the version numbers get higher. Maybe what we want is more ease of use and less damn paperclip animations.

    1. Re:It is because...... by transient · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Even Office 97 has a large plethora of thoroughly useless features. Send To Routing Recipient, Send To Fax Recipient, Footnotes, Comments, Document Map, Field, Cross-Reference, Index & Tables, Insert Object, Insert Bookmark, Look Up Changes, Track Changes, Change Case, Style Gallery, Merge Documents, Letter Wizard, Formula

      If you think these features are useless, you're using the wrong program. People in my department use many of these features on a weekly, if not daily, basis. In fact, just today I used "Track Changes" to make changes to a job description before sending it to my superior for approval.

      Maybe you should try WordPad.

      --

      irb(main):001:0>
    2. Re:It is because...... by iso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I believe that what you're saying is true, but you're forgetting one important thing: people buy on features, not "smoother design, better ease of use, more speed, and more stability." I have done a lot of reasearch in this topic, and read a lot of market research data. The results are quite conclusive: the vast majority of users believe that speed and stability (bugfixes) should be free. While "better ease of use" and "smoother design" are things that some customers are willing to pay for, most decide to make a jump in version almost entirely based on new features.

      Unfortunatley, this is the way it is right now. People may want a more easy-to-use program that's more stable, but they don't know it (or, at least, aren't willing to pay for it). So what's the solution? If people are only willing to buy on features, where's the incentive to spend development time on bugfixes and usability? If people truly want this, they're going to have to vote with their pocketbooks.

      - j

  8. Re:computer programs are more confounded? by KingJoshi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is exactly the problem, so far as I know. Whenever I've seen an app, I pick it up instantly. Easy to hack stuff, read help, etc. The interface is mostly intuitive because the programmers designed a lot of things like I would. Not always, but at least I can reason it out. The "clueless" "end-user" just thinks fundamentally different. For whatever reason, they can't figure it out. Just as I can't hear the difference between tones or pick up a dance step or whatever. So, even if I design things I think have a good interface and is intuitive and so forth, many of those out there still don't get it.

    I think part of the problem is fear or lack of real desire to learn in or something pyschological that prohibits them from picking it up quickly. But there is a fundamental difference and that has created a divived between those that can and those that cannot.

    --
    In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
  9. There are 3 answers by Apreche · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The first answer is simple. Ease of use and power are inversely proportional. If you increase ease of use you decrease power. A CLI with toos like grep is powerful, but harder to use than F3 in windows. You can sometimes get more power without losing ease of use, but only to a certain extent.

    The second answer is that people fear computers. The tech industry on purpose or by accident has created the illusion in people's minds that computers are difficult to master, extremely complicated, and hard to learn. This is not the case. I tell people every day to build their own computers, and they have this fear they will mess it up, or that its difficult. In fact it is no more difficult that putting together a set of legos. Square peg and square hole. If people stop fearing computers and begin to believe they are simple, then people will have an easier time learning them.

    The third problem is trainers. The method of teaching computers sucks. People learn processes, click this, click that, then click this. They don't know the meaing behind what they are doing. To use the old car analogy, they've reduced the number of controls in a car to steering wheel, two pedals, and stick. The driver doesn't have to know how the car works, because they can memorize what all the controls do, since there are few. In a computer it is impossible to reduce the number of controls to so few. So in order to make use of it, you have to know at least a little about how it works. The biggest thing people need to learn is file systems. We all know about the metaphors of desktops, files and folders. But common folk just don't get it. Because of this "easy to use" programs like MS Office become difficult. Trainers should teach people the parts of a computer, how they work, how their operating system works, and all the basic things that apply to everything they do on a computer. Once they comprehend this much, picking up a new system is not so difficult. Instead the trainers just say "click on the OK button in this box". If they don't know the meaning of this, they don't know what to do when something weird happens.

    Summary
    A)power or ease, can't have both
    B)don't fear the reaper
    C)learn the basics then the specifics

    --
    The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
  10. I am the guy with the binder by TheNumberSix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm one of those software instructors who provides the training on the huge custom software package to the customer.

    Typically when I arrive on site to show the customers the software we just spent a year creating for them, (**after the customer signs off on the requirements**) and I show them some super wham-o-dyne feature that is not included in the base package, I usuallyt get one of these responses...

    1. (90% of the time) What a stupid feature. Why do we have that? Does anyone on earth use this feature?

    Typical answer: No one else has it but you, your firm asked for it, and we spent about a jillion hours of developer time working it in and testing it even though the only person on Earth who thought it was a good idea was your project manager.

    2. (10% of the time) What an excellent feature! I'll really use that. It will make my job easier. I'm glad we have this super wham-o-dyne feature.

    I've seen it again and again. Most of the software ends up confusing users and being far too complicated because a few people insist on adding bizarre stuff to the base package.

    I've seen the same thing in some open-source projects too, where the main developer can't resolve (or doesn't want to resolve) a dispute between two other coders, so they add in "options" so everyone can be happy. But it sometimes ands up making the final product a mess.

    And as for spending enormous amounts of time in training on the new computer systems, I have to say that many times customers demand it.

    If a customer lays down a lot of money for a custom software package, they simply expect an instructor to appear on site, in a tie, wielding donuts and coffee and lunches. We have CBTs that take about 2 hours and cost virtually nothing and cover the base package really well, but customers would rather have half thier staff sit around in a class room for two days instead. For non-technical personnel especially, they just demand that level of service if it's needed or not. So at least in my case, I can't take the blame for forcing the end users to sit through training! Guilt no more!

    --
    Never confuse feeling with thinking.
  11. Devil spawned end user by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The short answer seems to be "get a mac". Ease of use, standard ways of doing things, tendency to failsafe even if it wont let you eject the disk, and desscriptive error messages are the hallmarks of mac's human interface. even the computers cost more because in part they have higher standard for fabrication and higher level of standard features (fire wire, ethernet) so the software and users can count on commonality in operation and fewer options to choose from.

    microsoft on the otherhand has won the market by doing exactly the opposite. Proliferation of features. Constantly changing features. This permits both the embrace-and-extend and the planned obsolescene (word 5 cant open word 6). It also muddies the waters so much thet people give up any buy the product with the most features rather than the product that integrates its features the best. And it lets them release code as they go, no need to plan ahead, just slam out the next feature.

    This is not an isolated effect. its well documented in economics theory under the rubric "bad apples drive out the good". meaning when the buyer has insuffient information to make a comparison between good and bad before the purchase, then it becomes a race to the bottom, or a race for irrelevant aspects that a buyer can judge.

    I am reminded of Dilbert Interviewing the elbonians for iso9000 compliance with a documented software development feature:

    Dilbert: so what is your process for code development?

    Elbonian1: We hold a village meeting and boast of our skill
    and curse the devil spawned end user.

    Elbonian2: sometime we juggle

    Elbonian1: Then we slam out some code and fo roller skating

    The amazing part is that as long as they always follow their process they are ISO 9000 level 2 compliant. They might even generate uniformly better code than someone without a process.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Devil spawned end user by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I have to say as a recent switcher, I agree with the Mac advice, or at least would suggest that computer vendors at least look at the platform (and not just screenshots of it either - probably the only major thing I don't like about OS X is the fricking "noisy" Aqua theme. Yet everyone copies that, or makes stuff just as garish and ugly and somehow expects their half-arsed over-complex UI to be friendly.)

      The computer world seems to make increasingly complex UIs as more and more features are bolted onto applications that very often are already over-specified and under friendly. I'm not knocking flexibility, but when you have to fight to just enter a number into a new Excel worksheet (as you did when Clippy was still a part of that platform - entire computer locked up while supposedly "friendly" paperclip awaits instructions at bottom right of screen...) then you're not making it flexible, because you're making it difficult to use what you've added. To some extent, MS has learnt from this (it doesn't include Clippy any more...) but for the most part Windows continues, if anything, to go in the wrong direction. And, much to my regret, I think most other systems including the open source and free software worlds (GNUStep excluded) are just blindly following, convinced that if they don't make UIs that work identically to Microsoft's, then nobody will be able to use it.

      What I love about OS X is that virtually everything's obvious and largely well defined. It takes 20 minutes to get the hang of everything important, from navigating the menus to using the dock, and even if you don't initially like the presets for the configurable aspects, the tools to change them are usually easy to find. You find that while initially some UI choices may seem unusual compared to the norm, there's been a real effort to choose things that will not cause frustration. And OS X has technologies like AppleScript and the BSD underpinning so that people like I, as a professional programmer of 10 years, a serious computer user familiar with a variety of OSs including GNU/Linux as my main system for the last 7 years, have all the control I need.

      All programmers who provide tools to end users need to consider the user interfaces they're building. They have to be intelligent, clear, and usability has to come first - provide the tools to customise the interface for end-users, don't force the end users to start with the worst environment.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  12. MBTI by stonewolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The author got it almost exactly right. When you study the Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) for techies you find that they are made up almost entirely of 4 types INTP, INTJ, ISTP, and ISTJ. nearly all the core software that runs the Internet was written by INTP and INTJ people. (In general INTs are more likely to like python or lisp while ISTs are more likely to like Perl.) NTs are concept oriented with STs are detail oriented.

    INT*s make up about 2% of the population and IST*s make up about 10% of the population. The key is the IT in the type. "I" stands for Introverted and "T" stands for Thinking. The ITs make up only 12% of the population. The opposite types, the EF Extroverted Feeling folks, make up 36% of the population. The EF folks like to talk to people and make friends. The IT people like to learn things and make systems that work.

    The result is that the people writing the code have a point of view that is shared by only a small minority of the population. While the largest subgroup of the population has a point of view that is exactly opposite of the techies.

    Obviously the techies can not design for the "feelies". And, the "feelies" will not take the time to communicate with the techies. They write us off as "geeks" and "nerds" and belittle us every chance they get. While we tend to call them "air heads" and ignore them.

    There really are two cultures. Until people on both sides of the divide understand that the divide exists and work to bridge it, we will keep seeing articles like this one.

    Stonewolf

  13. Re:System changes..? by adjuster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (Parent of parent...)

    OSS is the way. Well the proper licensed stuff is anyway.

    (Parent...)

    Oh, now that was just plain funny. It seems that /. alone posts a "Version 0.2.3.1.2 of GNUXKApp is out today" several times daily. RedHat has, what, at least a new major release every year for the past few years?

    (And now me... *smile*)

    The point is that no one can stop you from using Free software in whatever manner you want to. If you love Linux 1.2.13 you can keep right on using it for as long as you want. You can contract out for firms to add drivers or fix bugs as much as you want. If you want to pay somebody to backport IPtables or Usermode Linux to 1.2.13, go for it!

    Remember USB devices that used WDM drivers that say "Requires Windows 98". There's no reason why WDM drivers couldn't be made to work under Windows 95-- except that Microsoft didn't want to do that work when you could just pay them more and get Windows 98. That's just fine, too! It's their code, so that's their right. Want to add that support yourself? Too bad-- you don't have the code, and it probably violates a license anyway. Think "Group Policies" and Windows NT 4.0 (if you've never noticed, Group Policies are implemented mainly by a tweaked-up USERINIT.EXE), or perhaps FAT32 and Windows 95 OSR2. I'm picking on Microsoft a bit unfairly, 'cuz there are other manufacturers that are more flagrant about it-- but it's their code, so it's their right, and you're stuck "on the treadmill" because you chose to use their software.

    Free software isn't anybody's code, though. You can add whatever you want-- or hire somebody else to do it for a fair and equitable rate.

    "Upgrades" don't "have to" happen. These "forced upgrade" cycles are a symptom of the idiotic "commerical software industry" believing that they are somehow both manufacturing and service companies-- all at the same time! Use and contribute to Free software, and get yourself off the treadmill if you don't like it.

    --
    The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
  14. Re:"Move!" by Tailhook · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I think a lot of this has to do with the elitist mind set of a lot IT workers. They see themselves as the masters, the ones who ought to be in charge because so much of the work is done through systems they built. But really, they should think of themselves as servants, trying to build the best system they can to support the end-users. After all, in a business setting, the end users are the ones who produce the true value of that business. IT people are just there to make it easier."

    This is dribble. Pure, 100% unadulterated Dilbert. I am thoroughly fed up with this "master, servant" BS.

    Why do IT folks worry so much about what their position is relative to non-IT folks? How do we come to the point where IT pin-heads dictate that people who work in the same organization are to be referred to as "customers"?

    Lets set the record straight. People who work for your organization and do not happen to be in IT are co-workers and peers, not "customers". They don't pay you, they can't fire you, they can't send you back under warranty and you don't get to refuse to do business with them. When they fuck up systems you have as much right to complain about them as they you. I'll begin to behave as though non-IT folks are "customers" the day I get to install a cash register near the door to my office.

    Is it true that some IT "professionals" are elitist? You bet. The fact that they are elitist isn't the problem. There are elitists in every walk of life, from the Vatican to the local Jiffy Lube. The problem is some IT manager hasn't done his job and fired the hell out of the "elite."

    IT staff doesn't exist just "to make it easier". Computing long ago transcended the simple role of reducing labor costs. Computing is the single most important method of communication in the business world. Modern business is not possible without modern computing.

    Screwed up people (IT and otherwise) using screwed up software for screwed up reasons, all under the auspicious of screwed up management. Some people think all this screwing up can be fixed if we just straighten out the relationship definitions; make sure IT knows that everyone else is the "customer." It cannot. Making systems work well requires talent, hard work and investment. This is required of all parties involved; IT and otherwise.

    Here's a bit of common junk science from the article:
    In a study of 8,000 tech projects in businesses, only 16 percent of the new systems were deemed successes

    What, exactly, is a "tech project"? Define "new systems". What criteria is applied to conclude whether things may be "deem successes" and by whom? I could pick this apart in my sleep. Suffice it to say, that statement is ambiguous to the point of being worse than meaningless. It is laughable. Anyone naive enough to quote such a thing in their own material is equally laughable.

    Whatever the case may be, I'll take it on faith that up to as much as 16% of "tech" projects can, in fact, be "deem successes". What I know for certain is that every one of those successes were created by hard work, talent and mutual respect among IT and non-IT contributors, not because some CTO publishes a memo about how the word "user" is offensive and will no longer be tolerated.

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!