First Red Hat Academy for High School

FrankBama writes "As a follow-up to the story of a few days ago, Red Hat has started a program in my old hometown. The story's at the News & Record. I love this part '...this training normally would cost more than $10,000. But Weaver students can get Red Hat certification free -- and use it get a job paying more than $30,000 a year right out of high school.'"

Comments

At my high school

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a very similar two year course at my high school that granted certification for Cisco Router Systems. What I remember is the teachers' endless grumbling over how a kid right outta high school can now go get a job that pays better than teaching.

Re:At my high school

[dextr0us]

As a high school student that certified (CCNA), let me tell you a couple of things:

#1 - CCNA is worthless to a high school student (at least a sophomore) I reciveved my cert in february, got a job in march, and then after my cert expired 2 years later, i had no real desire to do any more cisco out of high shcool.

#2 - people don't realize how difficult it is as a HS student. HS was cake, but HS, Junior College, and a job as a CCNA (mostly diagnosing router problems) wasn't the best way for me to spend my time. After my sophomore year, i worked on my associates degree more fully, and let me tell you.... way more worth it. Most kids that are smart enough to get a CCNA, are smart enough to do a few/a lot of community college courses. Do that instead of a cert.... that way getting into a bigger school is cake. (only a 26 on the ACT for me, but it was irrellivent)

Re:At my high school

[NTworks]

I had this same thing.. Cisco has been setting up similar things to give CCNA's to high school students across the country.

The teachers are telling the kids how they can make $40k right out of high school. I got my CCNA thru their school program as a senior

let me tell you, it is total BULLSHIT. 90% of the people who actually passed the cert (which was only ~50% of the class, me included) will never touch a router at least not for another 5 years. and they WONT find a $40k job out of high school working on cisco equipment, especially with the current IT economy

I was lucky and landed a job out of high school in 2000 when the economy was still decent, I work as a mainframe computer and high-end 64-bit unix machine operator in a large computer datacenter (also the webmaster for our datacenter). I was the last person they hired without a degree, now they wont even consider u unless you have a degree AND working IT experience. CCNA's are now worthless thanks to cisco flooding the market with no-knowledge high school punks who think they are the shit because they vaguely know what "config t" is

Presumptions

[Charlie Bill]

get a job paying more than $30,000 a year right out of high school

Yeah, wait now -- who's hiring again?

hehehe

[Billly Gates]

The highschool students would have to stand in line with the other college degree professionals with many years of experience to get any IT job. Even help desk.

I had to leave IT and I have several years of experience. Thanks to bootcamps certifications are no more then peaces of paper. A paper is nice but its worthless without experience.

Good on many fronts

[jgennick]

This is good news from several fronts. One thing I like about it is that it gives high-school students a marketable skill. It's always been a pet peeve of mine that we can send kids to school for 12 years (grades 1-12) and when they come out the other side we still haven't imbued them with skills to make a living.

Not the only such thing happening

[killthiskid]

According to Google News, this isn't the only place such things are happening. Many schools are embracing linux, this program is just another great extension of such happenings.

Thats too young!

[Snosty]

Its nice and all that they are trying to help highschool kids have a future after school but I don't think this is an appropriate choice for training. I have yet to meet anyone "right out of highschool" who has the intellectual maturity (notice I didn't say capacity) to function in a corporate position. This applies especially to positions such as Systems Administration where experience, wisdom and maturity are an absolute necessity.

I know all the shit-hot teenage geeks out there are going to think I'm out of line for saying this (especially when they feel they are ready to take on the world). I'd recommend they go to University and expand their minds a bit even if they feel it is below them or that they wouldn't learn anything. Don't rush into being a wage-slave, kiddies, its not half as much fun as you think it is.

Re:Thats too young!

[adjuster]

This applies especially to positions such as Systems Administration where experience, wisdom and maturity are an absolute necessity.

Ahh-- but the only true wisdom and experience comes from actually doing the work. Being a "junior" sysadmin or an intern under good people is the best training anybody can get. I try to take on at least one (1) intern every summer, and I encourage anybody who wants to see the median level of "suck" in our job field get lower to do the same...

That is, unless you are a sucky sysadmin to start with... *smirk*

Reminds me of my time in High School!

[rickthewizkid]

... but back then, I was learning DOS 3.3 (for Apple II) and AppleWorks, becuase "everyone in the future will be using this stuff!"...

Anyway, I took that seriously, and made damn sure that I *knew* to enter the proper date when Appleworks was starting up, and that I *had* to make sure I had the right disks in the drives.

(Interesting note: Even in Word 2002, CONTROL-B and CONTROL-L are for bold and underlining, respectively)

Of course, we all learned how to use Apple DOS (both 3.3 and ProDOS) - we^H^Hthe rest of the class did this for a solid month, during which time I was permitted to play Choplifter, Cannonball Blitz, and Ultima V because I already knew how to use Dos... which *really* pissed the rest of the class off...

Anyway, to get to my point, I wonder how relavent the things that they learn now will be a few years after they graduate - and I hope it is *concepts* that they learn, instead of cookie cutter "type CATALOG to see a what's on your disk, insert your disk and type PR#6 to start AppleWorks" stuff...

-RickTheWizKid
(Open-Apple-S to save, Open-Apple-P to print)

Re:Reminds me of my time in High School!

[joshuac]

---snip ... but back then, I was learning DOS 3.3 (for Apple II) and AppleWorks, becuase "everyone in the future will be using this stuff!"...

Anyway, I took that seriously, and made damn sure that I *knew* to enter the proper date when Appleworks was starting up, and that I *had* to make sure I had the right disks in the drives.
---snip

---snip
Anyway, to get to my point, I wonder how relavent the things that they learn now will be a few years after they graduate - and I hope it is *concepts* that they learn, instead of cookie cutter "type CATALOG to see a what's on your disk, insert your disk and type PR#6 to start AppleWorks" stuff...
---snip

I'm totally with you, the way things are "taught" is a big pet peeve of mine.

My school had a similar class to the one you describe, but for various reasons I never found my way into it. I was fortunate enough to have an Apple IIe of my own at home, with a few random reference books for various things. Instead of the rote class learning, I was teaching myself 6502 assembly (because I had a reference to 6502 opcodes and had found a way to get myself into the miniassember that came with Integer Basic), and learning the various subroutines that could be called in DOS 3.3. When I got my hands on 3.3E by begging and stealing from our nazi computer "teacher" at my elementary school, I remember the joy of decompiling 20 instructions at a time to get glimmer of what the minor differences were in the code. As time went on, I taught myself how to automate writing much of my assembly by using WPL, a very under-appreciated scripting language internal to AppleWriter II (well, Don Lancaster knew how good it is). Later, (once I had gotten my hands on the reference books) I taught myself the in's and outs of high level languages like Integer Basic and Applesoft; when I managed to sneak off with a copy of Apple Logo, I learned everything I could about that, because "it's fun to learn what makes things tick!"....meanwhile, the class learned the syntax of various DOS 3.3 commands.

Anyway, I took nothing very seriously, at that formative age (10 years old) I had found a toy that had limitless possibilities, that could be reprogrammed to perform any task you could conceive. The class was being taught how to operate a tool within narrow confines of specific pre-decided tasks.

Now, almost 15 years later, what I learned then on that Apple IIe was invaluable; what I learned that was truly valuable was not how to interface with a disk ii controller and count clock cycles for timing in my ML loops, it was that I learned something about learning. The class had learned how to be told what to do.

The most valuable thing that IIe taught me is that you are fooling yourself if you tell yourself you "know" everything about a subject. When people say they "knew" DOS 3.3 because typing "catalog ,d2" showed them the contents of the second drive on the current controller, I realized they were selling themselves short; there was always more to learn; they didn't "know DOS". But since they assumed they knew everything, there was no room for them to learn more.

The next most valuable thing I discovered was how to pull something apart and learn how it works, without a master plan in front of you. Too many people have been taught to "learn" by being shown an example, and then emulating. It's faster, it get's the grade school concert band able to push out a few notes in time for their parents to be proud during the winter concert, but rote knowledge is a poor subsititue for actual understanding. Type "pr#6" to boot off the floppy in drive 1, slot 6...does that actually teach you anything about what is going on, or are you just mechanically following directions? When all you learn is to follow directions, inovating when given an unexpected problem is very difficult. When you understand what is happening, you give yourself many more choices, and much more control.

Anyhow, I learned many of the same subjects that the computer class at my grade school set out to learn. But I suspect that over time I got much more out of my learning experience than those students did, simply because of the way they were forced to learn.

To make this slightly on-topic, does anyone know how the Redhat classes are taught? Do the teach you think unix, or do they teach you the syntax of commands?

Nutrition and dirt...

[adjuster]

But Weaver students can get Red Hat certification free -- and use it get a job paying more than $30,000 a year right out of high school.'

Oh, sweet $DEITY. They could spend time taking college classes in high school, learning marketable skills that aren't tied to a particular manufacturer's contrivances of what a computer operating system should look and act like, learning to code, READING BOOKS, and end up far valuable "just out of high school" than a little RedHat, Cisco, or Microsoft drone. It seems a little premature (high school) to be focusing so heavily on something so specialized instead of gaining an appreciation and general understanding of computing.

The kids that come out of these programs (I've got a "Cisco Academy" at a high school close by that I work with, and know people who teach at another high school that's been doing CompTIA "A+" training, and I've gotten to be around some of these kids) are mostly useless drones. The kids that really have potential are the ones that hack around on their own, have a genuine interest, and make something of themselves on their own. I'd take one (1) of them to ten (10) of these "cookie cutter kids". The training is just too specialized-- they can't handle something that wasn't "in the book".

Don't get me wrong-- I think it's great that schools are expanding their technical training-- but don't expect these kids to be useful for much other than what they've been "trained" for when they get done.

Those Cisco kiddies can sure make the patch cables, though. Snip-snip, crimp-crimp!

Great, but kids - please go to college

[Zerbey]

I must applaud this school, and Red Hat for their efforts. I wish they did this 9 years ago when I was at school! I know of several schools in my area offering MCSE and Cisco certifications as well.

I hope that the school is encouraging the kids to use this new knowlege as a jumpstart into college. Kids: $30,000 a year may sound like a lot when you're living with your parents but it's nothing once you have a mortgage and hungry mouths to feed! With a college degree you can command a much higher salary [1].

A college placement is much easier to come by if you can say you obtained Linux certs in school and it'll give you a huge advantage over the other students.

In writing this comment I have had one thought though. When are High Schools going to start teaching kids how to read, write and do arithmetic? I know plenty of people WITH high school dipolmas who can't spell, can barely read and need a calculator for basic arithmetic.

[1] I'm also hoping that by the time current high school students graduate college the economical climate will have improved and jobs will become available for them.

Re:But if Microsoft were to do such a thing.....

[dameron]

Memorize this:

Microsoft is a molopolist, it used or attempted to use its molopoly in operating systems to gain additional monopolies and destroy competitors.

Redhat didn't.

Think of it like a prison record: would you trust high schoolers with a convicted (and largely unrepentant) criminal?

-dameron

Too true, my MCSE did wonders

[alexhmit01]

I was doing tech support at a local startup (this was in '96-'97), and started studying on my own for the MCSE. The first few tests I studied for were reading the NT 4 Server Resource kit. After graduation, I landed a summer internship at Citrix, and finished my MCSE (the last test was on break during freshman year).

I used that to leverage interviews and offers that made my friends at school jealous, and this was at MIT, they weren't slouches. One interviewer freshman year asked if I was graduating in the spring, and was quite disappointed when I explained that I was a freshman looking for an internship (then she saw the education line on my resume).

I pimped the MCSE and Citrix CCA (easy to pick up after working in Citrix's tech support department for 3 months) to get great jobs through the dot-com era. It was nice that when my friends were scrounging for money to buy shitty beer, the girls were impressed with my fully stocked liquor cabinet of premium stuff. :)

I turn 24 in a few weeks, run my own business, getting married this summer, and generally have my life together. The last of the credit card debts from starting a business are getting repaid, and things are going well. Take away the MCSE, and instead of getting good jobs as internships, I'm UROPing (undergrad research, most of which is just bitch work for $8/hr), and just getting my act together in the corporate world.

I dealt with clients, managed a team, and generally acquired a lot of experience while in school. Didn't cost me my "youth" either, I managed to be social chair of my fraternity among other experiences. Getting job skills in school is critical.

Hell, if I had stayed with Citrix like my HS drop-out friend that got me the job did, I'd also have a house and car from cashing in my stock options. :)

Skills are good, learn them. They don't replace a liberal arts education for personal growth and knowledge, but they can get you an opportunity to get rewarding summer jobs, instead of menial ones. Being a broke college student sucks, I was happier making $35/hr part time as a Citrix/MS geek than $8/hr cleaning test tubes in a lab.

Alex

Am I wildly jaded

[ellem]

or am I right when I think you could make 30K at Walmart?

Re:Shop/Trades

[stratjakt]

>> I ask agian, why do you think people who have no college should be banished to the domain of "carpenters/plumbers/welders/machinists"?

Banished to the domain? Hardly.. Have you any idea what a master plumber or carpenter makes? You're a fool for looking down your nose at people who work with their hands for a living.

You can get a job in IT with HS education. But chances are that 30k job will pay 30k for the rest of your life.

If you want a future out of high school, you're better off as a tradesman.

Besides, people will always need carpenters, contractors, plumbers and electricians. The wont always need a RHCE

A piece of paper?

[Daanji]

Yes, a degree is a piece of paper. A piece of paper that represents experience, technical fortitude, and problem solving. ( it depends of where you get the education ) I'm grossly tired of many slashdotters denotting ALL degrees/certifications as useless. That is not true in ALL cases. There are some programs or educational facilities that just want your money. However, most colleges or cerification programs that I have seen are worth taking. In certain situations it is not possible to teach your self how everything works because your can't afford the equipment, books, or understand the material. Colleges, for a modest fee (tuition) will let you play with VERY expensive equipment. Thus you gain experience. I agree experience it better than book knowledge. College is about both. The two interplay nicely to create a rounded employee, not some drone. Certifications are ok, degrees are good, and experience is best, but I believe all three are necessary. You can't rely on just one. Honestly, I have never seen any corporation that expects their employees to know everything and have experience in everything. Most of the corporate life is on the job training. In the end, the most imporant lesson is learn how to learn. Experience won't help in every situation, nor will a cert or a degree. But knowing how to learning will always be there to solve any problem.

$30k???

[sean23007]

God, I hope they don't advertise the $30000 salary right out of high school too much. Kids should want to take this class to learn the stuff, not to make $30k the next year. Because it just isn't that much, and there isn't that much potential for a higher salary for someone who takes a job straight out of high school.

This sounds like a good way for a lot of promising young kids to get absolutely screwed (and not in the good way that most of them wouldn't mind).