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TiVo switches off UK sales
SmackCrackAndPot writes "On the TiVo Community forum, there is an announcement that TiVo will be switching off UK sales.
This was previously reported in November at
BizTech Library.
It's probably not too surprising, after the BBC
spammed TiVo owners with a new comedy show."
I'll take that bet. The government (even our corrupt American one) is hardly silly enough to intentionally put themselves sqaurely opposed to millions of individuals exercising their freedom to code and share software. That's alienating a very big demographic, (think of all the corporations going OSS to save money-- mine, for example, and we're a real estate firm). Furthermore, it's alienating a very pissed-off demographic with a lot of resources that will put up a big fight.
Most OSS/freedom issues are minor ones that involve particular lawsuits invoking everyone's favorite target, the DMCA, or silly proposed bills to mandate DRM or some such. Imagine, however, that the US Gov't decided to promote Windows usage by changing policy to only award contracts to organizations using M$ software (the only way, really, for them to push such a switch). Can you imagine the outrage from HP and IBM over such a policy? One of those open-source shops would file a project proposal on the spot, and then go immediately straight to the courts to challenge the rejection. And there's no possible way the government would be able to defend such a blanket policy. (There are rules which lay out the criteria on which the federal government can award contracts, etc.)
And don't even get me started on how absurd the suggestion is to use M$ Desktop Sharing for spying. The service doesn't run by default, and has to be set up by the user. And no properly configured would EVER let remote desktop traffic in or out.
So I'll take that bet. What are your terms? Let me know what the timetable is for when I can collect my money, and I'll e-mail you and we can work out the details
Why did this thread instantly jump to the conclusion it was over this infomercial issue? Tivo never caught on like wildfire, even though people like me have bought them for their parents and siblings knowing they'd love it like I did. But for whatever reasons it did not become the VCR replacement, and Tivo's stock price has always struggled. Still, to know PVR is to love it. Tivo hasn't gone under, but for example on DirecTV it's no longer called Tivo, it's just part of your DirecTV service. The company did not flourish in one form and so it has taken on other forms. It appears that PVR's are accepted when they are part of a cable or satellite box, i.e., a built-in feature of something else. So I put very little stock in this notion that an informercial brought down Tivo in the UK, when this closure falls right in line with the direction the company has been heading in.
spam is unsolicited advertising... are you trying to say this is solicited advertising?
Actually, it is solicited. When you sign up for Tivo, you agree to let them send these ads. And you can easily opt out-- just cancel your subscription.
I really don't see the big deal. The ads do not come out of the thirty (or whatever) hours that were advertised when you bought your system. True you might get an extra thirty minutes-- maybe even an hour-- if the space wasn't allocated, but as has previously been pointed out, the ads help subsidize the subscription, and every once in a while, contain something of interest.
Support?????? Maybe in the past, but not anymore. The Tivo Series 2 boxes are locked down rather heavily. The boot ROM checks for a signed kernel, if it's not signed, it won't run. The kernel checks for modifications to the file system, if any are found it replaces the files and reboots. Although there have been some reports of hardware hacks to replace the ROM, it's not exactly what I would call "all of the support they give to the hacking community".
Not to mention the whole 3.2 backdoor code debacle. After thousands of hours of CPU time, the project had to be abandoned. The conclusion was that Tivo has either used an invalid hash or very long key sequence as the backdoor code in version 3.2, when previously the codes were short and easily hacked. It is just one more example of how hostile Tivo is becoming to hackers.
Tivo is attempting to create an image of greater security (keeping out the dirty hackers) on a software and hardware level in order to market the ability to distribute content with the Tivo as a DRM platform. If you can't hack it, you pretty much have to accept any restrictions they put on content delivered to you. They can deliver PPV events that are deleted after 1 day or not able to be recorded at all.
Fortunately, I have a Series 1 and can do whatever I like with it. I have a backup of every software revision Tivo has put out, so I can revert to an earlier version at any time. I certainly am not going to allow Tivo to send me any more updates, the boot ROM in the S1 is flashable so it's quite possible for Tivo to send down updates that lock me out of my machine.
New Tivo owners are not so lucky. There is no reverting to an earlier version of your brand-new Tivo. I have recommended Tivo to friends in the past but given the disregard for the community that has staunchly supported them (not only by buying subscriptions but by keeping extraction and guide replacement information difficult and obscure and by adding value for other users-free of charge) I don't know if I can still recommend them. I do like the UI but what really got me to buy one was the hack potential. Now that they have no hack potential, the luster is gone and I see the company for what it is: moneygrubbing fools that will alienate their most loyal users for a few quick bucks.
Enigma
... when you've purchased a ReplayTV today.
Now I understand what all the fuss is about. You really have to sit down, pause a live broadcast, rewind it a bit, then start playing again to understand why this thing is so cool.
It's a pity that this device that makes me watch more TV is under fire by the TV Industry. Am I going to skip commercials? Yes. Am I going to skip every single commercial? Can't skip commercials while the show is originally airing. I'm using it to catch shows I hadn't seen yet. If the show's good, I'm going to watch it when it airs. The ads are still getting to me, even more so now that I have more shows I want to watch.
Okay, that horse has been beaten to death. It's just sad that these industries are so short sighted. I mean, think about it, the more fun TV is (i.e. trading shows...), the more interest is generated in seeking interesting content.
Okay, I'm not really on-topic anymore. Sorry. Just wanted to vent a bit. Hopefully you can imagine my reaction to the headline the day I bought the machine.
I am never going to buy a tivo if they don't even admit my ownership over the hardware.
You own the hardware.
But fuck with it too much and TiVo doesn't need to provide you with service anymore.
Of course, you could actually go see just how much hardware and software hacks are available for the TiVo, but instead you'd rather just whine about shit you don't know anything about.
I have a telnetd, ftpd, and web control of my TiVo. All of which were installed by me. I tripled my storage space, and added ethernet connectivity.
Obviously they're repressing me though... I mean, they sold me something listed for 30 hours when it could've had 31 hours if they would free the space up! Damn them!
All current PVR/DVR systems are quite restricted in their capability because they only have analog inputs/outputs.
It's a great shame that people like Sky and NTL (digital satellite and cable operators in the UK) don't put IEEE1394 firewire connectiors (in and out) on all their equipement, so that instead of getting a nice digital signal in MPEG 2 format - converting it to analog, then reencoding it back to MPEG 2 when it would be so easy for the box to just stream out MPEG 2 so that the original source could be recorded unaltered. I can't believe that some enterprising hacker hasn't made an add on board for DVB or digital cable that you can shove inside your box so you can stream the MPEG 2 stream to a PC for digital recording.
One day all video recorders will be firewire only, record digitally, have access to the program guide and have a built in DVD writer for making recorded shows 'portable'. The thing is, due to lack of innovation, it'll probably take 5-10 years, even though all the technology to do this exists now.
Nick...
Sky+ *is* TiVo in the UK, I'm pretty certain that this is why they're pulling the standalone Hardware sales (after all as someone else pointed out, they make no profit from the sale of licenced hardware, the profit is in the subscription service)
The Sky+ on-screen branding is different, and the hardware is integrated into your decoder box but it's exactly the same system, and (afaik) the subscription support is farmed out by Sky to TiVo.
I have a standalone TiVo branded unit hooked into my sky box (which was bought back when we had cable) and whenever we have Sky engineers out they comment that it's the same system, most are interested in how the non-integrated version compares (the answer is that it's very good but occasionally fluffs channel changes which Sky+ doesn't.)
For those of you not in the UK, Sky are the dominant multichannel TV providers (think Microsoft if it helps) with the two cable co.s trailing ever further behind in market share (last time I looked I think they collectively had about something like 20% and falling) Telewest (one of the two cable co.s) actually altered the software in many of their set-top boxes to make it incompatible with ToVo about 18months ago (which is one thing that promted me to switch) so really the only UK TiVo market is Sky customers, who are all still able to upgrade to Sky+ aka integrated-TiVo.
While it does rather worryingly smack of on impending media-monopoly in the UKs PVR sector, TiVo's announcement is most emphatically NOT a sign that they're flagging in the UK - quite the reverse: back-door TiVo sales through Sky+ are healthy and on the increase.
This is getting way off topic, but I have to bite. Using your definition, how can a t-shirt with a logo not be spam? I didn't ask to see it, and yet, I'm being subjected to the message when you were the shirt.
Erm, "everything that TiVO did, and more"? Sky+ doesn't support suggestions, it doesn't support wishlists, season passes don't work as reliably (and until a recent patch used to fail extremely regularly), etc. Sky+ is a fairly good product, but it's much younger than TiVo, and it shows.
The "Watershed" is an English euphemysm for toilet. Here in the UK, we are culturally obliged to defecate only after the Queen has done so. Our ruler takes her dump at 8:45pm, and therefore, allowing for blockages, we may only partake of the pinching of the loaf, at 9pm.
:)
Post-watershed, therefore means, "after the Queen has pooped," or "after 9pm," when we can at last excrete; emit our waste; send the chocolate canoe down the porcaline rapids, etc.
In later years it has also come to mean the time when they put all the more "adult" stuff on the telly.
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
Quite a few people at my work have Tivo/Sky+ and are constantly raving on about all the features they have, the things they can do with them, how it's changed their TV viewing habits, blah de blah... and all I'm left thinking is "I can do all that with my VCR and the weekend copy of the Guardian Guide."
Anyone want to try to convince me i) why I should get one of these gizmos other than sheer techno-fetishism, and ii) why I should get one rather than a DVD recorder?
You must think in Russian.