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XML Turns 5

GiMP writes "According to the World Wide Web Consortium, XML turns 5 years old today. XML is used by many programs as a generic container for data. Applications range from websites, to word processor documents, to video games. It seems like only yesterday it was only a working-draft."

17 of 36 comments (clear)

  1. Quite old.. by rastachops · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In computing terms 5 years is quite a long time. I wonder what replacements are in development, if any?

    1. Re:Quite old.. by ahy · · Score: 5, Funny


      <reply type="flame">
      <quote><text><sentence type="question" language="english"> I wonder what replacements are in development, if any?</sentence></text></quote>

      <text><sentence type="answer" language="english">Hopefully a more compact format.</sentence></text>
      </reply>

  2. XXML by vbweenie · · Score: 5, Funny

    XXML - Extensible extensible markup language. Allows you to extend and redefine the EBNF productions which define the XML syntax. Roll your own roll-your-own markup language. Compatible parsers are few and far between, but an experimental application called YACC is rumoured to have some of the required capabilities.

    XXXML, or extensible extensible extensible markup language, is expected to undergo widespread early adoption by pr0n sites, as it permits a hitherto unimaginable flexibility in permutations and combinations of content...

    --
    Experience is a hard school, but fools will learn no other.
  3. well then by LittleBigLui · · Score: 5, Funny
    --
    Free as in mason.
    1. Re:well then by sporty · · Score: 2, Funny

      Non validated. We'll have to discard your entry if we just don't find it to conform. sorry.

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    2. Re:well then by duffbeer703 · · Score: 3, Funny

      XML continues to simplify our lives!

      Just think, if we spoke XML, we could easy exchange data between people without speaking their language!

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    3. Re:well then by KDan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Depends what you define as "data". You couldn't exchange stories with them without speaking their language (XML dialects (eg an XML dtd that is structured like a language to allow you to tell stories with only tags) count as a language too, of course. If you can't exchange stories with it, it's not much to fuss about - you're missing out on 99.9% of human knowledge and communication.

      Daniel

      --
      Carpe Diem
  4. xml turns 5... by mmport80 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... and does anyone know for sure what it's good for yet ?!? :P

    1. Re:xml turns 5... by vbweenie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It will probably be another 5, or 50, years before we know to what extent XML was the answer to the problem of data obsolescence and the degradation of old formats (like "bit rot", this is a handy but misleading way of framing the problem, which is not that the formats themselves degrade but that the supporting software infrastructure fragments, evolves or falls into disuse. The question with XML is then whether XML-encoded data will prove recoverable and intelligible after SAX, DOM, SOAP and all the rest have fallen into obscurity).

      XML's self-description is one layer deep: data and metadata are packaged together. This layer can be seen as one layer of insulation against obsolescence: so long as the metadata remains meaningful, the meaning of the data can be ascertained and recovered. But the metadata is itself data, and if it too loses its meaning then it will be of no help at all.

      For any data at all to have a semantic value it must have a context, and contexts change over time. XML is meant to ease the translation of data between contexts, but it cannot preserve meaning for all time.

      --
      Experience is a hard school, but fools will learn no other.
    2. Re:xml turns 5... by nehril · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "bit rot" of supporting software is itself only a piece of the problem. even if we had XML decades ago, what good would it do you if you had perfectly formed XML data... sitting on your 8" floppy disk? IIRC google had to jump through hoops to get some older Usenet archives off magnetic tape, a feat that may not be possible at all in 5 years.

    3. Re:xml turns 5... by vbweenie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Quite so; a recent attempt at preserving old media is noted here.

      With this in mind, may I direct the attention of budding geek archivists and antiquarians to Bruce Sterling's (and others') Dead Media Project, which seeks to document and analyse the conditions surrounding the life and death of media?

      --
      Experience is a hard school, but fools will learn no other.
  5. Get Facts Straight. by 4of12 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, even though "XML" doesn't obey proper grammatical rules, this Roman figures it to add up to one thousand forty.

    Plus, most people know that 1040 is associated with April 15 (at least in the USA)..

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
    1. Re:Get Facts Straight. by 4of12 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Smaller numbers to the left of larger numbers are subtracted instead of summed.

      Good thing tax returns are in Arabic. The Romans would not have tolerated these kinds of arithmetic mistakes,

      Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.
      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  6. Still a toddler... by pmz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This article is just another reminder how young XML and its associated standards are. No wonder most people are confused about it.

    Whenever I look at the last ten to fifteen years of computing history, I am utterly amazed. Think about this: during the Gulf War, with all its high-tech-ness, the best PCs were 386s or low-end 486s, and the best Sun workstations were the lower-end SPARCstations (i.e., perhaps a 40MHz CPU, probably 30MHz).

    Whenever I see people who are totally overwhelmed by the almost unbounded number of buzzwords, platforms, and dozens of ways to accomplish the same task, I try to remember that nearly everything we take for granted today was popularized in the last decade (often just in the last five years, like XML). There is a quote in the Solaris Internals book that says there were 3000 UNIX systems in 1982 (or 83). There are several orders of magnitude more systems today. No other time in human history have we had to cope with this sort of change in so short a time.

  7. Re:Still not easy to use for C programmers... by chneukirchen · · Score: 2
    This seems more like a problem in C than in XML.

    C really should have reflection, shouldn't it?

    In e.g. Ruby or Guile, this would be easy as pie.

    BTW, It's really hard to parse XML in i386 assembler, any hints? :)

  8. XML may collapse under its own complexity by Mike.Plusch · · Score: 2, Informative

    Although XML may be full of potential, I and many others have found that XML 1.0 has carried significant baggage from the SGML document-centric world, and XML is being shoe-horned into service for data representation. The fact that there is even such a problem as "elements-vs-attributes" when trying to represent a simple value indicates that all is not well. All the standards built on top of XML 1.0 inherit its limitations. The first generation of the Web was originally designed by one person and used HTML, HTTP, and URI. It was quite simple and people adopted them because things were understandable. 10+ years later and we need 12+ languages to write a simple application. The collection of half-baked standards are a house of cards waiting for a small breeze to knock it down.

  9. Compact or SUV by jefu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Hopefully a more compact form."

    And here, all this time I thought bigger was better.

    In any case, this point always comes up. "XML is too verbose." But a certain amount of verbosity in programming is good (vis Python vs APL) though too much is bad (Cobol vs Java).

    So is XML too verbose?

    Given the right tools we could easily transform "<quote><text><sentence type="question" language="english">" reversably (thats important) to "<q><t><s t="q" l="e">" which certainly is less verbose. I'd be willing to bet that most XML DTDs/Schema would allow for most tags to be reduced to one or two alphabetic characters (that would be 700+ different elements). If thats too much you could build a simple tool defaulting the attributes, eliding the close "</...>" bits quoting unquoted attributes and so on. Which could give us "<q><t><s t=q>". Too verbose still? I could easily go a few steps further but won't.

    In any case, the challenge for those who find XML verbose is to find an isomorphic representation. That is a representation R and transformations XR taking XML to the other representation and RX going the other way so that XR(RX(text)) = text that is less verbose. Lots of people will thank you I expect.