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Windows XP EULA Discrepancies

Posted by timothy on from the what-would-a-good-eula-look-like dept.

Greg Edmiston writes "I came across some interesting ambiguities upon reviewing the Windows XP EULA which turn common scenarios into potential EULA violations. Among the potential violations include VNC, dual-processor workstations with graphics cards, and running Gnutella. Just some food for thought."

19 of 69 comments (clear)

  1. VNC by jbolden · · Score: 2, Informative

    It looks like VNC does violate the license. That's actually sensible since without that requirement you could use a high end windows desktop + VNC to run support apps for a dozen users. Windows does support virtual terminals so assuming the users didn't stomp on each other....

    1. Re:VNC by norwoodites · · Score: 3, Informative

      This part is a repeat of another atricles on /., http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/17/23 33207&mode=nested.

  2. Sort of interesting by gizmo_mathboy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Interesting as this may be they only point that seemed most interesting was about VNC.

    I've been ok with how win2k performs and I see no real reason to upgrade to winxp. I am actually working harder to move everything to linux and save windows for those machines I have to administer at work.

  3. uhm, yeah... by Tumbleweed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But, seriously, who gives a shit what's in any MS EULA? We all know there's going to be bullshit in any MS EULA, just as we all knew they were going to try and patent their .NET stuff, just as we all knew they'd worm their way out of real antitrust punishments. I hate to sound pessimistic here, but c'mon, does the real world ever show up around here? Ignore EULAs (MS or not) and get on with your day.

    Yes, this'll hurt my karma, but I've got plenty to spare and this is actually therapeutic.

  4. One non-issue by kruetz · · Score: 4, Informative

    1.) "The Product may not be used by more than two (2) processors at any one time on any single Workstation Computer."

    It seems that Microsoft wrote this with dual-CPU workstations in mind. However, what qualifies as a processor? My graphics card has an on-board GPU which is as good as any.

    Well, I don't think this is an issue - the "product" is WinXP. Now, you're graphics card is not executing any WinXP code - WinXP is sending it dynamically-generated drawing instructions. To claim that WinXP is "being used" by the GPU doesn't seem to describe the situation. A more accurate description would be "WinXP is CONTROLLING the GPU".

    If I'm wrong, we're all going to piracy hell, because there a processors in our sound cards, network adapters, hard-drives and cd-roms, ... you get the idea.

    I'm sure they only mean processors that are capable of executing/running WinXP, which certainly ONLY covers your AMD/Intel CPU.

    I agree that the term "processors" IS ambiguous, but when it's coupled with the "may not be used by more than" phrase, I think it's quite clear that they're talking about PCs with more than 2 CPUs.

    But the other issues are rather worrisome. Especially #2 - "The ten connection maximum includes any indirect connections made through "multiplexing"...". How the Hell are you going to know if someone's running NAT on their machine and their entire LAN of 500 PCs is accessing your machine?!? This one IS BULLSHIT.

    And since they mention IIS in their clause, doesn't it mean that as a web-server running IIS under WinXP - YOU CAN ONLY SERVE 10 PAGES SIMULTANEOUSLY.

    BUT THIS IS GOOD - REALLY. We can get Microsoft to take themselves to court over this one - if microsoft.com is using IIS under WinXP (and if not, they're not sleeping in the bed they've made) wouldn't you agree that it's highly likely that they have served more than 10 pages at one time? If so, Microsoft has broken their own EULA and as a result I don't see how they could take anyone else to court over this issue. So it may well be a complete non-issue.

    Still, EULAs need to be regulated so that you either can't lose all sorts of rights when you purchase software, OR the licenses is made available to you before your potential purchase.

    God I hate Microsoft's legal dept...

    --

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    1. Re:One non-issue by jbolden · · Score: 2, Informative

      If so, Microsoft has broken their own EULA and as a result I don't see how they could take anyone else to court over this issue. So it may well be a complete non-issue.

      Licenses have no effect on the license holder. Microsoft can do whatever they want with their software regardless of any license restrictions.

      The other problem is dimes to dollars this doesn't show up in the server license.

      Now if Microsoft knew that somebody else was serving over 10 pages at a time using desktop and didn't do anything about it and then went after you might be able to make a case.

    2. Re:One non-issue by tbannist · · Score: 3, Informative

      As I understand it, EULAs are simply not enforceable. The purchaser needs to agree to the EULA before the purchase of the software or else it's not a legal contract.

      Two reasons:
      1) By contract law, all details of an agreement must be disclosed prior to offer and acceptance. In other words, before the purchaser agrees to pay money for the software.

      2) By contract law, both parties must benefit from a contract. Since the EULA provides no benefits to the end user, it is not a valid contract on it's own.

      So, if the purchaser signed the EULA before paying for the software he might have a real legal problem, but otherwise it's only enforceable by intimidation and threats.

      -
      IANAL

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
  5. ok... by DonFinch · · Score: 2, Funny

    They break many laws of our society...I'm not getting misty eyed over the eula. Kind of like a crack whore saying sex before marrige is a sin...

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    -- Insert wisdom here:
  6. Point 2 is not as unreasonable as it seems... by darkpurpleblob · · Score: 2, Interesting
    From the license:
    "You may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect to the Workstation Computer to utilize the services of the Product solely for File and Print services, Internet Information Services, and remote access (including connection sharing and telephony services). The ten connection maximum includes any indirect connections made through "multiplexing" or other software or hardware which pools or aggregates connections."

    And the circumstances the author has in mind that is a breach of the license:

    "A workstation connected to (a) an FTP server, (b) an SMB server, (c) a mail server, (d) four web servers, (e) a Palm Pilot, (f) streaming Windows Media radio, (g) a NetMeeting conference, (h) another workstation via Internet Connection Sharing, and (i) the Windows XP Activation server *grin*."

    There is no issue here. The license refers to *incoming* connections from other devices to the workstation running XP Pro, not *outgoing* connections to other devices from the workstation, as the author describes.

    Microsoft obviously want to discourage people from running servers from the XP Pro operating system (which is designed for workstation use) to encourage the purchase of more costlier Windows Server and Advanced Server operating systems.

  7. Funny.. by ejungle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's good to know that Microsoft can hold AOL hostage any time they like:

    4.)Microsoft reserves the right to discontinue any Internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Product.

    This statement is too vague to get worked up about, but could entitle Microsoft to block access to Internet-based services which it does not agree with.

    --
    Remember: umount it before you fsck it.
  8. yes by AnotherBrian · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ask Slashdot http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/29/16 55222
    EULA DB http://la.shano.org/index.html

  9. FUD, FUD, and more FUD by Blkdeath · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Sorry, guys, but this one's bunk.
    1.) "The Product may not be used by more than two (2) processors at any one time on any single Workstation Computer."

    Microsoft's NT-based products have always (to my reccolection) been licensed on a per-processor basis. That's part of the reason to justify Server -> Advanced Server -> Datacenter. They're referring to the system processor, otherwise known as a central processing unit, or CPU. The nonsense about graphics cards, GPUs, pixel shaders, etc. is bunk. As has already been pointed out, they are not running Windows, Windows is running them.

    2.) "You may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect to the Workstation Computer to utilize the services of the Product solely for File and Print services, Internet Information Services, and remote access (including connection sharing and telephony services). The ten connection maximum includes any indirect connections made through "multiplexing" or other software or hardware which pools or aggregates connections."

    Not a discrepancy, per se, but a limitation imposed so that you may be forced to upgrade the license to a server-class if you're serving a large quantity of clients. The wording is relatively specific, actually, considering it's a Microsoft EULA. I can clearly understand that they are referring to a local network server situation.

    3.) "Except as otherwise permitted by the NetMeeting, Remote Assistance, and Remote Desktop features described below, you may not use the Product to permit any Device to use, access, display or run other executable software residing on the Workstation Computer, nor may you permit any Device to use, access, display, or run the Product or Product's user interface, unless the Device has a separate license for the Product."

    "This is not a mainframe. Use your own computer." They don't want you to set up a dozen dumb terminals and use them to run a Windows XP desktop. In the cases of WinVNC / VNC Server, it generally takes over the active desktop, rather than replicating the desktop out for a separate session. In a nutshell, if you're at a keyboard and staring at a monitor and there's a Microsoft Windows XP interface displayed on same monitor, and you are the only one using this interface, you should pay for a license for Windows XP.

    4.) "Microsoft reserves the right to discontinue any Internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Product."

    This one's almost too insulting to respond to. "Microsoft reserves the right to discontinue ... " - discontinue, people. Read. Learn. They are not preventing you from viewing aol.com, they are acknowledging that at some point, Windows Update might not exist any more. Example; Windows 95, and soon-to-be Windows 98. I bet if you looked, you'd find similar clauses in their EULAs. It's known as "CYA" - Cover Your Ass. They don't want to be tied to a web service for the next four decades because somebody read and agreed to an antique EULA.

    This is not news. This is FUD, and not even intelligent FUD, at that. Please, Slashdot, don't fan the flames unless warranted.

    --
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    Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

    1. Re:FUD, FUD, and more FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      OK, some of this is FUD, but there are real restrictions going on here.

      Blkdeath>They don't want you to set up a dozen dumb terminals and use them to run a Windows XP desktop

      The language also seems to remove the possibility of running a single instance XP over VNC from Linux. Of course they let you use Linux in this way from their own framework, but *they control* how you do it.

      MS>Internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Product."

      Blkdeath>..don't want to be tied to a web service

      Then MS could make everything perfectly clear with an extra clause, e.g. ...available to you *from MS* through the use of the Product.

      When you are in a court of law, judges and juries notice such details.

    2. Re:FUD, FUD, and more FUD by octalgirl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "You may permit a maximum of ten (10) computers or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect to the Workstation Computer to utilize the services of the Product solely for File and Print services, Internet Information Services, and remote access

      This just slays me. For the last two years I am just dumb-struck by how much MS is pushing us back in time, not forward. For all their PR and hype about how wonderful things are, it is all just BS lately. Only 10? Hmmm - I seem to recall Windows for Workgroups 3.11 being able to handle at least 50 -- more actually, depending on what you were doing. We had printers and file locations shared off Win3.11 computers all over the place. I remember, one room full of dumb terminals, with just a floppy boot disk, a shaved down copy of WordPerfect 5.1, and a few NET USE commands that allowed a whole department of secretaries access to file storage and printing. I cannot fathom with all of the technological leaps and bounds that have occurred in the last decade why they are doing this, other than greed. Maybe it's "If they exceed 10, then they have to buy more OS licenses, or better yet a server" WTF????

      At a time when more and more families have multiple computers in the house, the older ones being passed down to the kids, why on earth would they pull this now? I have 7 computers at home, my entire house is networked, even the garage. What about smart refigerators, tvs and such, that allow you to print whatever out? I'll tell you what MS, I'll allow as many computer connections to my shared printer as I please, and if your OS locks me out after 10, then I will think it truely a piece of trash. And the home version -- utterly useless -- another grab at getting more $$ out of innocent families and consumers who don't know any better, to force them to go back and pay $100 more for the Pro version. Nice work MS.

      While I'm on my rant, let me throw in a little 2K bashing. Don't get me wrong, I think some of the functionality built in to AD is pretty sweet, if you wanted to use it. But MS has decided it is the ONLY way to get things done. In the past, there were many ways to approach a task, and as a consultant you got to pick which method of computing/access/production worked best. But those options are gone now. Like printing. It's cool that you can manage printers and assign them to people, if that's what you wanted to do. But tell my again, why, why, why, in this day and age, I am writing VB scripts just to get a network printer out???? I handle enough user accounts, I really don't want to manage computer accounts now too. That should be my choice. And now of course, the home user is faced with the lovely task of managing user accounts. Really a bad move MS.

      Does anyone remember back when, if you wanted to get a printer to work you had to go to the back of the book and get the printer codes? Or modems, you needed the AT command to access one. Those days are long gone, and I don't miss them. But here I am, using little VB scripts that seem vaugly familiar to the old batch files of days gone by. And what is that stupid ConPrt utility again?? Why on earth do I have to leave the OS, go to a resource kit, just to be able to allow users (who don't have access to the printer folder) to print? Come on MS - this is not rocket science. We have been setting up printers for so many years now. It's real simple, when a printer is installed, you ask: Is this printer just for you, or for everyone who sits here? Third party vendors have been doing it for years. I have a team of 5, and not one of them understands VB scripting, but they were great little ghosters, knew how to put printers on and move the computers out. Now they can't make a move unless I get everything ready for them. Utterly useless, unless of course, I send them out for training and pay big buck for some MS classes - or maybe this is part of the big picture too?

      For all of it's advanced possibilities, I often feel like I am back in mainframe land. And why do I think that this home/pro thing is not working? Because of 'word on the street'. I have long lost count over the number of home users I know who tell me they can't stand XP, have spent hours upon hours on the phone with tech support, just to get something as simple a shared printer connected, which they had working fine until they tried to bring XP into the mix. And then they spend even more $$ to bring it in to a shop, to have the drive reformatted so they can put Win98 back on!

      That actually felt good -- thank you.

  10. I'll say this once by Mr.Sarcastic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    EULAs usually are not worth the paper their printed on. Just BUY the software and the EULA does not apply. If you go to Microsoft and LICENSE software it will apply. Check it out here

    --

  11. Re:Silly Clauses by walt-sjc · · Score: 3, Informative

    Um, well Yeah. This is the EULA for "workstation" products. You need to buy "SERVER" if you want to run server apps. MS has mdae it quite clear for YEARS (since NT4 came out) that this was the case.

    These are not the two you are looking for. Move along.

  12. Last time I checked by harrylackapants · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the local laws have precedence on such issues (except maybe in some 3rd world country). So anything which is in a contract (EULA in this case) is considered to be null if that part is contradicted by some local law. That is why in many civilised countries there is a clause which says: If some parts of this contract are otherwise stated by the law, then these parts are automatically void, but the rest of the contract remains in place. The huge EULAs / contract with many complex clauses could be reduced to a halfpage contract if the void garbage would be taken out. But they are formulated this way just so the persons who have no clue about the laws might get scared. That is why I have my legal insurance which provides free consultans on any legal matter of mine. :) So they can take their EULA and stick it where the sun don't shine. *rant* And since we are at EULAs, why the heck do Windows upgrades come with an EULA?!? The law require hidden bugs to be fixed for a product you buy. And AFAIK in most countries the law extends the warranty indefinitely when it comes to hidden bugs. Since when do I have to agree to anything so I can get their garbage of a product fixed?!? *rant end*

  13. Re:Not all devious by AnotherBrian · · Score: 2, Informative

    Think of it like this:
    Say you bought a car and it came with a EULA that said you where only allowed to go 50mph, so the speedometer only went from 0-50. However the car was capable of going 100mph with no modifications apart from pushing the gas pedal a little further down. Let's also say that the manufacture of the car also sold another model that was exactly like the one you bought, except that its' speedometer went form 0-100. Of corse the 'faster' model cost an extra $5000 In other words, they sell a product capable of doing something and then say I'm not allowed to it.

    I'd like to see the car company try to enforce this EULA that says I can't drive 100mph in my 'economy' model. When I buy something, I have the legal and moral right to use that product to its' full capacity, then modify it and use it some more!

  14. Re:Not all devious by dago · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can buy a car and own it afterward.

    However, you can only buy a software license and own this license. Then, you can do whatever you want whith the license (eat it, stick it on the wall,...). The software, you can only use if you respect the term of the license.

    If the license stated that you can only use the program dressed in black and you run the program dressed in black and white, than you just violate the license and the copyright law.

    Yep.

    Really.

    --
    #include "coucou.h"