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Managing RAID on Linux

rjnagle writes "The availability of HOW-TOs and newsgroups is supposed to make the sysadmin's job easier, right? Much as I am a proponent of the 'distributed learning model' for Linux, the endless searching for answers on the Web for setting up Linux RAID was getting to be a royal pain. Sure, there was a RAID how-to and an excellent newgroup, but some of the information is out of date, and the tricks suggested by people a year ago may be no longer needed today. Robert reviews the O'Reilly title Managing RAID on Linux below to see how it stacks up to HOWTOs, guesswork and anecdotal evidence. Managing RAID on Linux author Derek Vadala pages 245 publisher O'Reilly rating The best reviewer Robert Nagle (aka idiotprogrammer) ISBN 1565927303 summary This book brings RAID to the masses

A person deciding to go with RAID faces a panoply of options and gotchas. Hardware or software? How many controllers? ATA or SCSI (or ataraid)? RAID 1 or RAID 5? Which file system or distribution? Kernel options? Mdadm or raidtools? /swap or /boot on raid? Hybrid? Left or right symmetric? One poster pointed out that putting two ATA drives on the same controller could impact performance. Yikes! Didn't I do that? Upon discovering that O'Reilly had just published its Managing RAID on Linux book, looking at sample chapter , I bought the book and let my blood pressure return to normal.

RAID is one of these subjects that is really not complex; it's just very hard to find all the information in one place. This is precisely the book to solve the problem. Author Derek Vadala, sysadmin and founder of Azurance.com, an open source/security consulting firm, has gathered a lot of information and even personal anecdotes to go through the decision making process when going over to RAID. He goes step-by-step through that process, educating us about hard drives, controllers, and bottlenecks along the way. This exhaustive book may be the first to bring RAID to the masses.

Although parts of the book (RAID types, file system types) may seem already familiar to experienced Linux users, it is helpful nonetheless to have everything in a nifty little book. A section of file systems provided not only a rundown of the merits and drawbacks of each one, but also a guide to their utilities. I learned for example what "file tails" for Reiser are, and why using them causes performance to degrade after reaching 85% capacity. The book compares raidtools with mdadm as well as lovely commands like nohup mdadm -monitor -mail=paranoidsysadmin@home.com (which, if you haven't guessed, causes the system to email you RAID status reports upon boot).

People who use software RAID may skip over the chapter on RAID utilities for the leading RAID controller cards. Still, there was one interesting tidbit: Why, the author asks, do makers of controller cards put all their BIOS utilities on DOS floppies which require us to find a DOS boot disk? Seriously, how many of us carry around DOS boot disks nowadays? The book made me aware for the first time of freedos, an open source solution that solves precisely that problem.

The Software RAID stuff was pretty thorough and clarified a lot of things. The book does an excellent job in helping to identify and eliminate bottlenecks and optimizing hard drive performance (using hdparm and various monitoring commands). The anecdotes and case studies definitely clarified which RAID solution is suited for which task.

I am less impressed by the book's sections on disaster recovery and troubleshooting. Although these subjects are brought up at several places in the software RAID chapter, the book could have discussed several failure scenarios or used a fault tree (such as the famous Fault Tree in Chapter 9 of the Samba book, a marvel for any tech writer to read). The book doesn't even discuss booting with software RAID until the last 10 page of the book and then gives it only a single paragraph (even though the author acknowledges it as "one of the most frequently asked questions on the linux-raid mailing list."). Call me old-fashioned, but isn't the ability to boot into your RAID system ... kinda important? As someone who just spent a significant amount of time troubleshooting RAID booting problems in Gentoo, I for one would have liked more insight into the grub/lilo thing. Also, in the next paragraph in the last chapter on page 228, the author casually mentions that "all /boot and / partitions must be on a RAID-1." Say what? Please pity the poor newbie who religiously follows the instructions in the book but fails to read until the end. I'm not sure what the author meant by this statement, but it required a much more substantial explanation and needed to go into a much earlier chapter.

These complaints don't detract very much from this excellent book, a true O'Reilly classic and a model of clarity and helpfulness. This book provides enough knowledge to avoid the dread and uncertainty that comes with trying to tackle Linux RAID. With a book like this, a sysadmin can sleep a little easier.

Recommended Readings:

Robert Nagle (aka Idiotprogrammer )is a Texas technical writer, trainer and Linux aficionado. You can purchase Managing RAID on Linux from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.

55 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. I know this book is about software RAID ... by supun · · Score: 5, Informative

    but the easiest way I've found is to go with hardware RAID. It's easier to setup, doesn't put any extra load on the CPU, and only costs a few hundred dollars extra.

    Mind you I'm thinking of RAID used in producion instead of someone RAIDing two drives in there home machine.

    --
    :w!
    1. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
      For IDE they're under a hundred, sometimes right on the motherboard

      Those cheap-o-RAIDs are essentially software RAIDs. Most if not all RAID functions are done by the drivers, not on the card itself.

      Entry-level real hardware IDE RAID cards cost approximately $500 - almost the same as a SCSI RAID. That's obviously offset by the cheaper disks, but still...

    2. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by spinkham · · Score: 2, Informative

      And are basically software raid.
      Those cheap IDE raid cards do most of the work in the driver, and don't give you much adavntage over software raid.
      True hardware raid is a few hundred dollars, like the 3ware series of cards.

      --
      Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    3. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      Try Linux ATA RAID HOWTO for starters:

      "Type df -k and you should see your hard disks as /dev/sdaX instead of /dev/hdaX. This is because the Promise Driver is actually a special type of Software Emulation RAID, not exactly Hardware RAID. (Promise RAID works through a BIOS Hack)."

      By hardware RAID I mean a RAID system where none of the work is done by CPU (Adaptec, 3Ware). HighPoint and Promise ATA RAIDs are hardware-software hybrids and your CPU has to work.

    4. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by Copid · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Links to your evidence please? All tests I've seen show a marked improvement on disk speed with minimal impact on CPU. Please get your facts straight before posting.

      CPU usage isn't entirely the point. It doesn't take much CPU power to do RAID these days (that's why software RAID in Linux is a pretty good option). The problem is that it requires drivers and software control over RAID functionality (just what you want to avoid) when the RAID card should just be making the RAID array look like a single drive to the operating system. Notable examples include the HighPoint "RAID" controller found on some Abit motherboards.

      Anyway, I think "Please get your facts straight before posting" is kind of a nasty response to somebody who is pointing out something that is well known to most people who have tried using these pieces of crap with their non-Windows operating systems. Try using Google if you want references, one way or another. They won't be hard to find if you search through driver development lists for Linux and *BSD.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    5. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by Spoke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, 3ware IDE RAID cards are much cheaper than that. About $120 for a 2-channel card good for raid 1/0 and $245 for a 4-channel, $365 for a 8-channel and $520 for a 12-channel. I pulled these prices from hypermicro.com and no, I'm not affiliated with them, just a satisfied customer.

      If you're looking to do any more than 4 channels, I'd take a serious look at the SATA cards and drives simply to reduce cabling hassles.

    6. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by _aargh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There are plenty of reasons to go software RAID over hardware RAID. With Linux, one of the main reasons is the same reason many of us choose Linux to begin with-- it's open source. I know that isn't traditionally a factor to be considered when picking hardware, but remember that when a hardware controller fails you are at the mercy of the vendor. If a Linux software RAID fails, you have access to the source code and perhaps also the developers, so maybe you just have a shot at recovering data in a catastrophic event, even if it does mean writing some recover tool on your own. In fact, with RAID-1 in the Linux kernel, if something goes kablooey you can just mount a member disk standalone and get some rest.

      That's only one consideration. It used to be that the headache of booting from, and installing to Linux with software RAID was a huge hassle. Today almost every distribution supports out of the box installation to software RAID. So the 'ease of use' considerations for going hardware are all but gone.

      Now here's the issue that always starts the tug of war-- performance. Traditionally hardware RAID was simply better because it didn't hit the CPU. Today that doesn't make a difference, especially if you use SCSI. Now with ATA you might see the overhead of RAID a little more, but that's because ATA already has overhead to begin with. The CPU hit with SCSI is negligible, and I doubt if it will be noticed in most cases, even in so called "production". That's because the real bottleneck in most systems in I/O throughput and not CPU performance. That's most systems, not all systems. Obviously if you are a good sysadmin you are evaluating these issues on a case by case basis.

      Finally I just want to say that it's a widely held opininion among the Linux RAID community that the kernel RAID (the md driver) outperforms all but the most high-end SCSI RAID controllers. I'm sure many will disagree, but that's been my experience and I know that if you ask certain kernel developers who shall remain nameless they will tell you the same thing.

      Run bonnie, you'll see.

      Derek Vadala, lowly author.

    7. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by spongman · · Score: 3, Informative
      Not so, there are plenty of comparitive reviews like this one on tom's hardware that suggest that the cleap-o-RAID, while not as feature-complete (ie RAID 5) as some of the more expensive offerings, are just as performant and sometimes faster and less CPU taxing than the more expensive options.

      You can get excellent performance for less than $100. Why pay more?

    8. Re:I know this book is about software RAID ... by nathanh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The "hidden" problem with hardware RAID is that often the operating system isn't aware when an active drive has failed. Some vendors offer monitoring utilities that install into the host OS (eg, MegaRAID controllers have a Linux utility) but this raises dozens of issues. Will the utility impact the server stability or performance? What library dependencies are required for the utility? How do I integrate the utility into my enterprise monitoring system eg, Nagios or Tivoli?

      Another problem - perhaps less serious - is that hardware RAID controllers often require a reboot into their proprietary BIOS to do anything. This isn't very useful if you want to expand the RAID array without disrupting service. Some vendors offer utilities to modify the RAID configuration but I've never found all the functionality to be exposed within the utilities. Of course, if you are mucking about with disk arrays on production systems then you have bigger issues to deal with.

  2. My favorite part of the review... by VitrosChemistryAnaly · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...was the use of the word "panoply".

    That word simply isn't used enough in the modern vernacular.

    Okay, mod me down now...

    --
    "It's a tarp!" -- Dyslexic Admiral Ackbar
  3. RAID and Firewire by syr · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Is there any way the peripheral to peripheral features of firewire could be used to create an advanced disk redundancy solution ala RAID? I ask this because I know the new Firewire specs shipping on the fancy new Apple machines are getting quite speedy and one of the prime advantages of 1394 over USB is the device to device communication that is possible.

    Is it possible to use Firewire and a service like Rendevous to make an intelligent redundant system? It's a thought at least. My firewire drive I use for my Inspiron works nicely enough. Would firewire be cheaper than RAID for servers, however?


    Syr GameTab.com - Game Reviews Database

    1. Re:RAID and Firewire by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Interesting Thought.

      1. Rendevous probably wouldn't come into play - it's really system-to-system.

      2. The device to device communication could be especially useful when recovering a failed disk - no overhead on the controller. This, though, would require the devices themselves be better than mere drives, driving the cost up.

      3. Unfortunately - without drives with actual FireWire interfaces (all externals use FW-IDE bridges, the Oxford 911 being the fastest at 50MB/s, 35MB/s sustained) the true potential of FireWire will remain untapped. Perhaps as we move to Serial-ATA and away from the standard parallel IDE, manufacturers will be prompted to offer FireWire drives as well.

      Additional possibilities:
      Think of a trimmed-down Xserve RAID with FireWire instead of Fibre Channel - it would be able to take advantage of the bandwidth of FireWire and still maintain (?) affordability for low-to-mid range businesses looking for large high-speed external storage.

      All sorts of possibilities.

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    2. Re:RAID and Firewire by gelstudios · · Score: 2, Informative

      firewire is a bus, raid is a configuration.

      there are raid arrays with firewire interfaces, and software raid using firewire drives is quite possible. (osx makes it easy as pie)

      here are some cool firewire raid products:

      http://www.usbshop.com/firewireraid.html
      http://www.sancube.com/
      http://www.voyager.uk.com/products_master.asp?prod Type=firewire

      the x-stream from sancube has two firewire busses for double the speed, or for sharing.

  4. Great review... by SysPig · · Score: 4, Funny
    ...but the best part was, I learned a new word today.

    panoply
    n. pl. panoplies

    1. A splendid or striking array
    2. Ceremonial attire with all accessories
    3. Something that covers and protects
    4. The complete arms and armor of a warrior

    Looks like number one is most appropriate, although I've never referred to my arrays as "splendid".

  5. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by 1984 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The performance hit is not worth the return.


    For you, it's not. For someone else, it might be.


    There are any number of situations where it might be appropriate to exchange some performance for increased data security. Just because you can't imagine them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

  6. /boot / on RAID 1? by mj01nir · · Score: 4, Informative

    "all /boot and / partitions must be on a RAID-1."

    With raidtools, at least, /boot must be RAID1, but / can most assuredly be RAID 5 (or, I presume, any of the other RAID levels). I have this running on an ol' RedHat 7.0 box:

    Hunk 'o fstab:
    /dev/md1 / ext2 defaults 1 1
    /dev/md0 /boot ext2 defaults 1 2

    Similar hunk 'o raidtab
    raiddev /dev/md0
    raid-level 1
    nr-raid-disks 2
    chunk-size 64k
    persistent-superblock 1
    #nr-spare-disks 0
    device /dev/sdb1
    raid-disk 0
    device /dev/sda1
    raid-disk 1

    raiddev /dev/md1
    raid-level 5
    nr-raid-disks 3
    chunk-size 64k
    persistent-superblock 1
    #nr-spare-disks 0
    device /dev/sda6
    raid-disk 0
    device /dev/sdb6
    raid-disk 1
    device /dev/sdc5
    raid-disk 2

    *Shrug* Wonder what the context of that quote was within the book?

    --
    the no .sig .sig
  7. multipath? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative


    Does this book talk about the md driver's
    multipath personality?

    This is the most poorly documented part of the
    md driver.

    if you read the raidtab man page ("man raidtab")
    you will find _no_ mention of multipath whatsovever.

    Yet, the md driver can do mulitpath (well, failover) if you set it up right.

    It has limitations though... You can't install to multipath devices, or boot from them (lilo/grub, the various distributions installers don't understand md multipath) and, if an hba fails in such a way that interrupts are not generated...commands just go out to lunch... then md won't notice anything is wrong, and so won't failover. Also, it does nothing to notice if the failover path is actually working, so if that path fails you won't have any notice that redundancy is lost....

    Well, multipath is not RAID, so maybe this book
    doesn't cover it, but any book on software RAID for linux should probably cover all the features of the md driver.

    I will be interested to see this book.

  8. Hardware IDE Alternatives / LVM by thefoobar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've stepped away from the software RAID idea on my boxes, due to the availability of cheap hardware RAID, such as Promise's SX4000. It will do hardware RAID 5 for four+ drives and has a SDRAM slot for cache expansion. Coupled with LVM, it ended up being a good solution for me, as I had both the reliability, and good volume management if I wanted to combine arrays.

    The problem I've had with the software RAID is reliability and expandability. It is a pain in the ass if you lose a drive in the array, and it is next to impossible to add a drive (other than a stand by drive) to your existing RAID 5 setup.

    Aah, opinions...

    --
    ------------------ D. A. Davenport: http://www.firebin.net
  9. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by pravel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Software RAID, excepting mirroring a pair of drives, sucks. Period. The performance hit is not worth the return. Ever do stripping in software? Worse, RAID 5 in software? It sucks. You could spend a few $ and get hardware RAID and not only actually get better performance but not be concerned that some corruption in your OS that is managing that RAID will affect the data stored on it.

    It sucks on your hardware. When you use fast SCSI disks and have fast CPU(s), software RAID is much faster then (very expensive) hardware RAID solutions. The chip on your hardware RAID card (usualy ARM) can't be faster than CPU.

    Regarding trust, you should trust (open source) software RAID more than proprietary firmware.

  10. Pity the newbie by vasqzr · · Score: 3, Funny



    Please pity the poor newbie who religiously follows the instructions in the book but fails to read until the end.


    On the other hand, pity the newbie who cracks a book open and starts setting a server up page-by-page.

  11. Re:The average power user... by bunyip · · Score: 2, Interesting

    RAID level 01/10 is both expensive *and* pointless

    Well, maybe for the average power user, but not the real power users. Pretty much every stock exchange, airline reservations system, credit card switching system in the world uses mirroring and striping. Operating systems such as HP's Non-Stop Kernel (from Tandem) and IBM's Transaction Processing Facility (TPF) work this way and run these mission critical systems.

    Why? I/O throughput and redundancy in applications that can't afford to fail. The disks aren't expensive compared to the rest of the system and even less expensive than the downtime.

    These aren't Linux systems, but as Linux scales up there will be times when it will necessarily copy from mainframe-class systems.

  12. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by ybmug · · Score: 4, Informative
    I think the Linux raidtools can help quite a bit with this problem:

    (From the raid howto)

    4.7 The Persistent Superblock

    Back in ``The Good Old Days'' (TM), the raidtools would read your /etc/raidtab file, and then initialize the array. However, this would require that the filesystem on which /etc/raidtab resided was mounted. This is unfortunate if you want to boot on a RAID.

    Also, the old approach led to complications when mounting filesystems on RAID devices. They could not be put in the /etc/fstab file as usual, but would have to be mounted from the init-scripts.

    The persistent superblocks solve these problems. When an array is initialized with the persistent-superblock option in the /etc/raidtab file, a special superblock is written in the beginning of all disks participating in the array. This allows the kernel to read the configuration of RAID devices directly from the disks involved, instead of reading from some configuration file that may not be available at all times.

    You should however still maintain a consistent /etc/raidtab file, since you may need this file for later reconstruction of the array.

    The persistent superblock is mandatory if you want auto-detection of your RAID devices upon system boot. This is described in the Autodetection section.

  13. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Windows software RAID (of any type) sucks, that doesn't necessarily apply to Solaris or Linux (in which I've used both, Solaris tends to be a little bit of overkill in many cases, but if you need it you need it).

    As far as IDE channels, many many motherboards these days have about 4 ide channels (mine does, and it's not even NEW) 4 ide channels can make a good raid. My linux RAID 5 (software) is pretty transparent and read speeds are noticable faster. This is even MORE true if you put in the EVMS patches from IBM and use the GUI tools to create and manage RAIDS without even editing /etc files (infact, the IBM EVMS stuff doesn't even use config files, it doesn't need them.. ) Just a few tips for the curious. (I use Gentoo, so I don't have to add these patches.)

    Hardware RAID is marginally, not always better. For one thing, you are limited to the idea of RAID that you board manufacturer believes in.. It's not always what you need. CPU power? On any machine faster than 1ghz you never even notice. 2ghz and software RAID is invisible. Yes, software RAID sucks on windows (due to the stupidest fucking volume/RAID managing service I've ever used), but it's viable almost everywhere else.

    Sometimes that extra few hundred dollars is an extra $20k (if you're doing lots of machines), if you can deal with the CPU hit is still more economical as long as it's reliable. Solaris/Linux RAID are ready for prime time, W2k's is still trying to figure it out. (For Windows boxes, please get hardware, save yourself headache.. thanks!)

  14. I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by Wee · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I've looked everywhere about why I keep getting these error messages on my Red Hat 7.3, 2.4.18-3 kernel RAID1 setup:

    Jan 26 04:15:02 hostname kernel: hdb: dma_intr: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
    Jan 26 04:15:02 hostname kernel: hdb: dma_intr: error=0x84 { DriveStatusError BadCRC }

    I've looked all over the place for the answer, google, mailing list archives, Usenet, local Linux friends, etc. and haven't been able to find a definitive answer. It's like nobody really knows what that error messages really means.

    Newsgroups suggested bad cables, so I replaced those (twice, once with brand new cables bought specifically for the purpose). Some info suggested the drive or the drive's controller was failing, so I replaced it. Other info pointed to my IDE controller, so I installed a new one dedicated only to the RAID pair. I saw info that said the raid tools were to blame, and to see if the errors go away when the mirror is broken. No dice. Other info I found suggested that it was the IDE drivers in the kernel and that the messages were nothing to worry about unless I was seeing data corruption. I'm not seeing corruption so I'm left with this option.

    If the book can shed some light on the error message voodoo one sees with Linux's IDE driver, then I'll buy it. I'd pay double what they're asking, even.

    -B

    --

    Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.

    1. Re:I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by Alan · · Score: 2, Informative

      When I've gotten that error it has meant that the drive itself is heading towards the great hardware graveyard in the sky. Since it's raid1 you should be able to simply put in a new /dev/hdb and all should be fine.

    2. Re:I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by dentar · · Score: 5, Informative

      Dude, that's hardware. Turn off the dma on your drives with hdparm.

      hdparm -d 0 /dev/hdb

      You might also have to turn off 32 bit mode:

      hdparm -c 0 /dev/hdb

      Of course, this will slow things down.

      Be sure everything's jumpered correctly.

      Also, of course, I'm not responsible if you fry your data!

      --
      -- I am. Therefore, I think!
    3. Re:I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by ThePurpleBuffalo · · Score: 3, Informative
      If the drive is fairly new, it may be SMART capable. Go and install http://www.linux-ide.org/smart/smartsuite-2.1.tar. gz.
      This can be done with (as root):

      wget http://www.linux-ide.org/smart/
      smartsuite-2.1.tar.gz
      tar -xzvf smartsuite-2.1.tar.gz
      cd smartsuite-2.1
      make
      make install

      You might get some non-fatal type errors. The makefile doesn't always work for setting up the rc.d scripts.

      Now run:

      /usr/local/sbin/smartd
      /usr/local/sbin/smartctl -a /dev/hda

      I'm assuming the bad disk is /dev/hda, but change it to suit your needs. If you get some errors, then SMART may not be enabled, so you'll need to run:

      /usr/local/sbin/smartctl -e /dev/hda

      Anyway, when you run smartctl with the -a, it will tell you all about hardware failures and whatnot. For more info on the codes it returns, go to this page: http://www.ariolic.com/activesmart/docs/smart-attr ibute-meaning.html

      I hope this helps

      Beware TPB

    4. Re:I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by Chocolate+Teapot · · Score: 2, Funny
      Nice one. You just managed to post a question on /. in the hope of eliciting technical help, qualifying it with an unconvincing statement that you might even buy the book

      I can't wait for a review of a book about Gentoo (1.4rc2) installation so that I don't have to camp out on irc.openprojects.net everytime GCC segfaults on my Athlon MP :)

      --
      Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
    5. Re:I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by Wee · · Score: 2, Informative
      Dude, that's hardware. Turn off the dma on your drives with hdparm.

      You know what? The other drive in the RAID pair (/dev/hdd) had DMA off, while /dev/hdb had it turned on. I don't know why that was the case. Perhaps my late night fiddling resulting in some sort of fat fingering (wait... that sounded really bad). Anyway, I decided to do some tests by copying about 150MB of MP3s to my array while setting DMA to either on or off.

      With DMA on/off (regardless of which drive has DMA on or off), I get the errors. With it set to off/off, I don't get errors, and the array is slower than a wounded prawn and a huge CPU hog (the copy takes around 50 seconds and the load avg hovers around 4.50). I don't care about slow since this is an NFS/Samba server and CAT5 is my bottleneck. The CPU load I do care about since the box does other things besides simply serve files. With DMA set to on for both drives, I also don't get the errors, which is very cool. The copy takes around 10 seconds and the load avg is about 0.70. All to be expected, since DMA gives quite a performance boost. But it's good to know I can turn it on.

      Looks like my issue was with wacked DMA settings, and not the hardware going bad. So thanks for getting me to take another look! I probably ought to go buy the RAID book now...

      -B

      --

      Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.

    6. Re:I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by tzanger · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm tempted to go buy a real RAID controller card and get away from software RAID.

      What do you think it'll buy you, honestly? I've got a half dozen software RAID1 systems out there, three of them being pounded mightily every day (10k-user ISP mail/radius servers) without so much as a squeak of complaint. Throughput is pretty decent as well:

      hdparm -tT /dev/md0

      /dev/md0:
      Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.87 seconds =147.13 MB/sec
      Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 2.16 seconds = 29.63 MB/sec

      (yes I know it's not a thorough benchmark) -- So without taking the drive cache into play, I can hit about 30MB/sec sustained. If I had better drives I bet I could boost those numbers significantly. Probably close to the 90MB/sec I am seeing on my new server, single-drive stats.

    7. Re:I'd buy the book if it could explain this... by Wee · · Score: 2, Informative
      What do you think it'll buy you, honestly?

      Well, I had thought that my IDE controller was bad, the IDE drivers are wonky, the raid tools stuff was weird, whatever. I mean, I had two drives which both worked great when used by themsleves. I put them in a RAID pair, and I got errors. Turns out I had DMA disabled on one of them, but I was looking at Linux software RAID as the culprit. I thought buyiung dedicated hardware would isolate any problems. It was a last ditch, straw-grasping effort to tell the truth.

      I'm actually a fan of Linux's software RAID1. No "special" drivers, I can use any kernel I want, easy to set up, minimal performance impact, and fairly transparent to use. Now that I know why I was getting errors, and that it wasn't anything to do with software RAID, I'm fine with it.

      -B

      --

      Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.

  15. Newsgroups, FAQs, and on-line docs in general. by Slartibartfast · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I'm certainly a proponent of "dead-tree" documentation, I have to take a moment to disagree with one of the statements made -- I'm sorry, but newsgroups, while perhaps containing out-of-date info, are (if it's a good newsgroup) capable of letting you know the current state-of-affairs. This is substantially -less- true with books. Case-in-point is Samba: it's *DARN* hard to know, from the Amazon description (or wherever) which Samba books describe the current state (2.4 and above) of Samba, whereas the FAQs, newsgroups, etc., are fairly obvious on it. Bottom line? I'll take a good book any day, but when in doubt, I'll go with current info gleaned off the newsgroups and other on-line resources.

  16. BIOS utilities by tmark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why, the author asks, do makers of controller cards put all their BIOS utilities on DOS floppies which require us to find a DOS boot disk? Seriously, how many of us carry around DOS boot disks nowadays?

    Well, given Dell's recent announcements, I suppose fewer and fewer of us will be doing so.

    But really, the author's point is so moot that it's embarassing: if it's my job to maintain a RAID array, and the utilities are on DOS floppies, of course I'm going to have access to a DOS boot disk. So what ? Just how hard is it to carry such a thing around, and why is this is a worthy thing to rail about, in a book about RAID ? If the author wastes too much time talking about stuff like this, this book can't be that useful - arggh, I've wasted too much of my own time already.

  17. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by incripshin · · Score: 2, Funny
    Ever do stripping in software?

    That's striping. Why am I even bothering posting this? Maybe if my class wasn't cancelled, you wouldn't have to read such a worthless post.

    incripshin

  18. RAID on Linux. by grub · · Score: 4, Funny


    It's not that hard.

    - Power down the computer
    - Remove cover
    - Blow out all dust and insect husks
    - Spray in RAID
    - put cover back on for 15 minutes.
    - Remove cover again
    - blow out insect husks.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  19. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by 13Echo · · Score: 3, Informative

    On a modern machine, software IDE RAID is still beneficial. For striped arrays, the performance penalty on the host CPU is very minimal compared to the device performance. Of course, hardware solutions are easier to set up. If you buy a 3Ware card, or something similar, kernel support is a non-issue. But for home users that just want software to load faster or wish to have backups, IDE RAID is a cheap solution that performs very well.

    So, you say it sucks, I say it's fine. You say toe-mott-oh, I say toe-mate-oh. Hardware RAID is more than just a few $. It costs hundred(s) more than software RAID controllers. I've had software controllers that performed better than the current high-end SCSI drives at the time. I can attest to the fact that CPU load was a non-issue. Performance was excellent and was the most inexpensive way to gain speed. It's ideal for home users that aren't wanting to spend a fortune on limiting the swapfile chug.

    So, please define "sucks". Enlighten us softRAID users on what the problem is. Or is the problem really that you've spent your fortune on some overpriced SCSI drives that get outperformed by a couple of ATA100s?

  20. Re:The average power user... by Proc6 · · Score: 4, Informative
    The average power user has no use for RAID. - Really? That's funny, with drives growing exponentially in size and little to no way to back them up, as well as reliability going down, I'm starting to recommend and am seeing others implement RAID in their standard PC. In fact, last month's Computer Shopper had a 1-2-3 Step Guide on how to install a Promise Fasttrack. It's easy, and they demonstrated it. I think it will get more common. Drives are cheap, and no one wants to lose all of their porno in a drive failure.

    RAID 0 is pointless - gosh, I wish all the video editing studios out there knew this. They've been duped into believing 150 megs a second sustained has value. What morons.

    Too bad cheap RAID5 cards don't exist. - Hmm, you mean like the Promise SX4000 that costs $150?

    --

    I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!

  21. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by Enigma2175 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Software RAID, excepting mirroring a pair of drives, sucks. Period. The performance hit is not worth the return. Ever do stripping in software? Worse, RAID 5 in software? It sucks

    Hmm, I get rather good performance from my IDE software RAID-5. As far as I can tell, reading from the buffers pretty much maxes out the PCI bus and I also get good performance for actual platter reads. Here are some quick numbers:
    (granted this is not an exhaustive benchmark)

    hdparm -tT /dev/md[0-1]

    /dev/md0:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.74 seconds =172.97 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.51 seconds = 42.38 MB/sec

    /dev/md1:
    Timing buffer-cache reads: 128 MB in 0.74 seconds =172.97 MB/sec
    Timing buffered disk reads: 64 MB in 1.68 seconds = 38.10 MB/sec

    Not spectacular, but certainly more than fast enough for my media server. Also probably better than I could do on a 68-pin Ultra Wide SCSI bus, even with multiple drives.

    --

    Enigma

  22. I'll call bullshit on that one by beavis88 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With disk drives steadily increasing in size, and backup options not keeping pace, everyone has a use for RAID 1. Frankly an extra 100 bucks on another drive is well worth it in comparison to the hassle of maintaining an ongoing backup process. I don't really care that I'm "wasting" a whole drive, since it's still going to be a ton cheaper than any RAID 5 solution.

    Ever ripped 500 CDs to MP3 format?

    Ever done it twice?

    I have, and never will again if I can help it...go RAID 1 go!

  23. Harware RAID != Hardware RAID by xchino · · Score: 3, Informative

    That onboard Promise RAID controller you dished out the extra $50 for on that new motherboard is not going to get you a nice hardware RAID 5. AFAIK they can only do 1,0, 0+1, or 1+0. Also, I see people whining about software RAID as compared to hardware RAID. Running a striped set through software was nearly unfeasable a few years ago, but with the resources new machines have these days, the difference is almost negligable, as long as it doesn't have to fight for system resources. let's not forget software RAID is alot cheaper than buying a RAID controller.

    At any rate, taking the view that hardware RAID is always the solution and software RAID is never the solution is just bad sysadministration.

    --
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
  24. 3ware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    See 3ware's site. They have an excellent range of IDE RAID cards that are real in the sense that the processing is done by the card and not by your computer's CPU (unlike in the cheap RAID-on-a-motherboard kludges). They are Linux friendly too.

    Up until now I've bought only SCSI drives because heavy compiles (which I do a lot) just choke IDE down. I now have a 4 x 60 GB RAID-1 and it just screams. With a one time investment in a proper IDE RAID card with escalator scheduling, tagged queueing and big cache I still save a lot of money by being able to buy large but cheap IDE disks.

  25. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Informative

    the poster obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

    a 'rubbish' 500Mhz CPU - 500,000,000 ops / sec
    a 5ms access time SCSI HDD - 200 ops / sec.

    so what if the CPU on the RAID card is a pathetic 100MHz job, it'll still be able to keep up with the data flow from the HDD, even when that data is being burst through.

    How much cache ram have you got on that RAID card is a better indication of performance improvements for your hardware.

  26. Linux software RAID rocks. by Kludge · · Score: 2, Informative

    I get >160 Megabytes per second off my software striped drives, which is far faster than I've ever gotten off any hardware RAID.

    And I've found the RAID 5 overhead is nominal, and very reliable.

  27. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by pravel · · Score: 2, Informative

    No matter how fast your CPU is, you aren't going to beat a dedicated hardware RAID controller. Also, if you're going to spend the money for SCSI, why wouldn't you spend a little more and go with a hardware solution? That's like buying a BMW then "saving money" by adding the fog lights yourself.

    You are going to beat hardware controller, because the chip running your software RAID (P4 Xeon, 2GHz) is much faster than the chip on the hardware controller (arm, 100MHz). Your only limitation is the IO bandwidth, thats why you go with SCSI.

    Server manufacturers sell hardware RAID as expensive add-on, but they are not advertising any benchmarks showing speed advantage. Because there is none. Current controllers are just not good enough, can't keep up with speed advances of CPUs.

  28. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by rodgerd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1/ Linux can rebuild RAID from on-disk information. NT 4 is deficient in this regard, it would seem.

    2/ Problem is worse with hardware RAID, because if I lose the card, I'm fucked. I either have to have spares, or wait on a controller. Never mind what happens if the manufacturer goes out of business.

  29. There are alternatives to HOWTOs by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When I decided to set up a RAID under Linux, I recalled seeing an icon in my webmin. I used Webmin almost exclusively in setting up the RAID. I didn't need any HOWTOs in the process of setting up this thing.

    So while there are good collections of information out there, there are also very good tools out there with which to accomplish useful tasks.

    I think it's precisely that HOWTOs are rarely if ever needed with Windows stuff that it still has an edge over Linux where the masses are concerned. So it's nice that HOWTOs are out there, I think it's more important that good tools are out there that are easy and self explanatory.

  30. Better title... by swordboy · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think that a better title for this book would be,

    RTFM: RAID - The Fucking Manual.

    --

    Life is the leading cause of death in America.
  31. Enterprise Volume Management System by Iakona · · Score: 2, Informative

    EVMS is IBM's version of RAID for linux. This is natively available on gentoo linux. I've been running it on a few boxes with great success. The utilities make it a lot easier to set up raid, lvm, etc.. Definately worth looking at for those interested.

    --
    I'm not a real doctor, but I recommend beer.
  32. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by JayJay.br · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, but there are some things to be taken into account here.

    First of all, some of today's controllers (such as the HSGs or HP Smart Arrays) are running on pretty good RISC chips. Moreover, they have good amounts of memory to use as read ahead or writeback cache, which do speed up I/O instead of sharing memory with the OS.

    About the speed of the controller's processor as compared to the main processor, just remember that, in today's standards, one SCSI channel could only work at 160MB/s, and, even if we needed one processor cycle for each byte to be read/written (we don't), we would only need a 160MHz processor to do the job.

    Well, come think about it, processors embedded in today's modern RAID controllers usually have a 64-bit data bus. This means that any transaction is 8 bytes long. Being the worst case in performance a RAID-5 write (which involves 4 I/O operations) we still get an average of 2 bytes per processor cycle.

    That's why RAID controllers don't come with fantastic processors -- there's simply no need to.

    We could also think of availability, but that would be another long issue, and hardware RAID wins almost in all cases (except for controller multiplexing), but the best reason you would have to think about software raid would be the cost.

    I could be wrong, though :)

  33. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by dubiousmike · · Score: 2, Informative

    As far as IDE channels, many many motherboards these days have about 4 ide channels (mine does, and it's not even NEW) 4 ide channels can make a good raid.

    Isn't that just 4 IDE plugs, but only really 2 IDE channels? RAID embedded in your motherboard is usually of the Promise variety and cheap hardware raid isn't much better than software raid. Tom's hardware has an informative article on the difference between hardware and software RAID and they reported that this is the case.

  34. Fasttrak Sx4000 Linux RAID review by Sludge · · Score: 4, Informative

    You actually feel good about the Linux drivers that Promise gives you with the SX4000? I bought this card, and I wished I stayed away from it.

    I am using it with four 120gb IDE drives with 8mb cache. For starters, if you use anything but the sxcslapp program in Linux to configure the drive, your drives are corrupt. All of 'em. And, your bios will return corrupt information regarding them. This causes DOS not to boot (hard freeze), and Linux to produce keyboard smashings on boot. This is a known firmware problem, and I'll be damned if they have any flashes available, even though the card is four months old. I just checked before writing this review.

    Once I figured out that all the work had to be done with sxcslapp in Linux, I started building my RAID5, albeit with caution. Things here went pretty well, except a) performance sucked about as bad as a single drive and b) the closed source drivers rebuild the raid array with no warning if a drive fails and is replaced, even if the file system is mounted. So, this means that if you have a drive that bombs and you replace it, anything you write to the raid array will be wiped out. I could have used some notification.

    The Linux drivers are horrible. They are written in 'Engrish', and the documentation might as well have been written by someone who doesn't understand computers. "Select the remove drive from array option to remove a drive from array". This continues for all of the options in their menu-driven app.

    I am also forced to use Red Hat 7.3 for this. Great. I now have a cluster of Debian 3 servers I administrate and one Red Hat server.

    I would have returned the card if my reseller would have taken my money. It's about equally expensive to buy IDE add-on cards, or maybe a bit less, and the software RAID in Linux seems to be firmly documented. I've used RAID1 in software on servers before, and it works nicely.

  35. My limited experience with hardware RAID on Linux by Peter+H.S. · · Score: 5, Interesting

    3-4 years ago, when we decided to use hardware RAID on our Linux servers, we bought some DPT Smartraid V hardware RAID controllers. Unfortunatly DPT was bought by Adaptec some time after. Adaptec has been really good at getting the driver included in the kernel, but the takeover seemed to delay this proces, so the time in between was a rough ride.
    The lesson learned was, never have a production Linux system with (binary) drivers tied to a specific kernel or distro version.

    That said, we have been very happy with the controllers, and since at least two disks has died without warning, the expense has easely been worth it. Our systems are used 24/7/365, so every minute of downtime annoys somebody. RAID really makes me sleep better, restoring a server from a slow tapestreamer, at some ungodly hour, while people nervously checks in, asking when we will be up again, is something I really want to avoid too much of.

    YMMV, but I think hardware RAID still has an edge over software raid, mostly because I find it simpler to maintain in the long run.

    If you are into LVM's, FS tools, and software RAID, go to:
    http://evms.sourceforge.net/
    and _drool_. Future stuff for now on production servers, but nevertheless.

  36. raidtab? MDADM's better, it can take care o'itself by DancingSword · · Score: 2, Interesting

    at O'Reilly, mdadm
    and, I'd recommend Enterprise Volume Management System rather than LVM ( Logical Volume Manager ), simply because LVM's seems to be being dropped as
    redundant ( ironic, that : ) as EVMS gets more effective, and I don't want the conversion-work from LVM to EVMS, if I can just do EVMS right now, see

    --
    Messages to/for me ( in me journal )
  37. Re:Why bother with software RAID? by spongman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but the controller's CPU doesn't need to be that fast, most of the logic is in ASICs anyway. the key advantage to having a controller is that it handles all the drive processing and this reduces the amount of work your main CPU has to do. remember: accessing the drive is not all your machine is doing. also most high-end controllers have large memory caches that reduce the load on your system bus, and battery backup that is essential for data integrity during power-loss. for example, in a mirrored RAID situation a software implementation will have to do 2 DMAs per write, one to each drive. with a hardware controller you only need one DMA to the card, the card handles writing to the individual drives, and will often reorganize the order of the writes from its cache.

  38. complete waste by Britz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've just been through setting up a raid system. I set up a file server that automatically backs up data every week that the users on the network put on it via samba. Since I only want to show up at the place every 6 month or so to check on the server it needs to be bullet proof to the max and still cheap, because they don't have much money as social workers.

    I purchased a used p2 system with a stable mb and two ibm scsi drives on an adaptec controller. I installed Debian GNU/Linux stable and upgraded to the latest stable. Then I put up a softraid and opted for xfs in case of a power failure. I decided against an ups, because I hooked the machine up to the local power network, which is very stable, since the server lives in Berlin/Germany, and I wanted to save the cost.
    Then I moved the root filesystem over to the raid device. Up until now everything was documented very good, except for the fact, that I heard that reiserfs doesn't work with softraid and I didn't find that info on the net anymore. I would have taken reiserfs instead if I would have had a reliable source, such as the book, telling me that that is OK.
    The only thing I had problems with was how to make the system boot off the raid device. Here the howtos and man pages had contradicting stands on how to do this.

    I read this Slashdot article with some regret, because I thought it could have saved me a lot of trouble. But the only section that gave me trouble also seems to confuse the auther of the book. Now that is no help at all. So this book is a waste of time if You know how to use google, which I had to learn painfully fast getting into Debian :-(, since doku is the last thing those guys seem to think about.

    But since Debian is still by far the best system out there overall I have no choice. If You start to rely on seemingly simple things such as a reliable update of Your system with very low hassle then You are hooked.