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Going Cyberpunk

goingincirclez writes "Cnet has an article about the development of a "Neuro-chip". This can be implanted in the brain and is currently being researched for medical uses. The article makes a brief mention the composition of pictures on a computer based on signlas receieved from the brain. Couple this development with the information in this Wired article from last October, and I can't help but wonder how far we are from literally being able to record dreams and thoughts?" On a similar note there are stories about a temperature-sensing implantable microchip and a scientist who claims he can tell whether you've committed a crime.

17 of 212 comments (clear)

  1. 5th Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If (and I'm stressing that if) this becomes "widely accepted", couldn't one simply refuse to allow oneself to be tested, as it would really just be another form of self incrimination, which we are protected from by the 5th Amendment? After all, each of these little "brain spikes" would be like the defendant muttering "I did it" each time he was shown a card with evidence on it.

    1. Re:5th Amendment by gilroy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Blockquoth the poster:

      If (and I'm stressing that if) this becomes "widely accepted", couldn't one simply refuse to allow oneself to be tested, as it would really just be another form of self incrimination, which we are protected from by the 5th Amendment?

      Sure. Just like your right to refuse a breathalyzer test if pulled over by the cops. Except, of course, that if you exercise this right, the state is allowed to revoke your driving privileges effectively immediately. It won't take long before refusing to take the test will itself be taken as a confession.
    2. Re:5th Amendment by Eimi+Metamorphoumai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hate to be pedantic (actually that's a lie, I love to be pedantic), but if you were only defending himself you still did kill her. If that's the case then don't try to pretend you didn't, but instead claim self defence. In which case the machine would be of no use, since what happened wouldn't really be in question, merely the motives and intentions and details. There are plenty of strong arguments against brain fingerprinting, but that's the stupidest one I've heard yet.

      --

      Visit me on #weirdness on the Galaxynet.

  2. This reminds me of Shadowrun by netwalkr · · Score: 1, Insightful

    When I can run a rollover cable from my head into the console port of network devices then start the neurological version of tera term I'll be in nirvana.

  3. Um... Has anyone NOT committed a crime? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With laws like the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act and the DMCA, hasn't pretty much everyone broken the law now? It hardly takes a scientists to tell whether someone's a criminal these days. Hell, it's been true for decades that the tax code is so fiendishly complex that no one can understand it, let alone comply with it fully. And if all else fails, there's always the speed limit laws...

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    1. Re:Um... Has anyone NOT committed a crime? by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would be sure that the chip would probably only sense guilt. Its certainly would not be difficult to sense a lie. So I dont think DMCA violations would be quite the same.
      But then surely- when someone is twisted enough to be a serial killer- they may feel no remorse or guilt for their crime.. But they would still be hiding something- and very aware of that fact. So in times of a major crime- you would end up rounding up all the people with something to hide - asking them direct questions and seeing if they are lieing. Of course - there is the possibility that someone could so much of a psychopath that they can lie without triggering the same mechanisms. I am not a neurologist or psychologist - but someone who is that far damaged my have incompatible brain chemistry or physiology.

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
  4. Imagine...! by I)_MaLaClYpSe_(I · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Just imagine all the horrible ways in which this technology could be abused!
    And as we all know, everything you can think of will be done! What can YOU think of?

    *shudder*

    If there is one lesson we can learn from history, it is that we dont learn from history ~ dont know whose quote

  5. We are one step closer.. by leerpm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    to The Matrix :)

    Seriously though , as science gets better and better at capturing our thoughts and dreams the applications for such technology are limitless. Imagine playing a video game that could adapt to your thoughts.
    "Grand Theft Auto 10: Drive any type of car you can think of."

  6. And how is this cyberpunk? by Lethyos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I didn't know that subjecting yourself to mental control and monitoring was cyberpunk. Geez, I guess it's time for us to wake up and stop being so anarchist!

    --
    Why bother.
  7. Re:The John Ashcroft implantable microchip by dkf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've no problem with this so long as we screen all our elected representatives, judges, lawyers and police officers before starting on anyone else...

    --
    "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  8. A question by Bendebecker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What if a kid is thinking about porn and soem computer neuro-chip creates a picture of what he's thinking about? Would it be a crime for him to look at the pictures he himself created? Would the police try to use these chips to monitor your activities? Would an employer get sued for sexual harassement for picturing his secretary nude?
    This reminds a lot of 'Forbidden Planet' were an entire race of beings is wiped out by their own subconcious thoughts. Some things in the mind should stay in the mind.

    --
    There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
    most of us won't be able to afford it.
    -- Lemmy
  9. Re:Missing the point by koan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dreams require interpetation, even if you could record them you would need a machine or software that could interpet it, if you could do that then AI would be possible at that point.
    Other than that you're stuck with on/off and basic items liek that.
    I'm no expert but I play one on /.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  10. Sure, laugh now guys, while you can. by Xilinx_guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's easy enough to poke fun at the crude brain implant IC's developed so far... It will be a whole lot less funny when the state of the art advances to the point where they start to become actually useable. Right now, high tech corporations boost the effective IQ of their employees by buying them the best computers and software available. We all benefit from this and enjoy the perks of having a nice fast machine and the latest software. What do you think will happen if implant IC's can be shown to boost effective IQ by 30 or 40 points? Or rather, if it boosts design productivity by 50% or more? They guys who have implants will be in tremendous demand, while those who lack them will be consigned to writing technical documents, or customer support. It could get downright nasty, trying to compete with guys who can literally outthink you by a wide margin by virtue of their hardware link. It's bad enough that we are starting to see tech jobs moving to India and other 3rd world sweatshops, but brain implants will bring the digital divide to a whole new level. All this carping aside, I sincerely want an implant. Voice recognition sucks, and fingers and mouse are rarely fast enough to do everything I'd like. Once they've been shown to be medically safe, I'll probably take the plunge. Maybe in 10 years, but I hope in 5.

    And to answer the unspoken question: Can FPGA's be used in your brain? I say this: Get Real. Current FPGA technology has no possible application. Maybe in 5 or 10 years, when we have conquered the leakage problem, and have developed fuel cells that run on glucose. But I don't see it, since an ASIC dedicated to brain interface functions will be a far superior solution. FPGA's may evolve into a future computing fabric, so they may have useful applications in external hardware, but it will be a very distant descendent of FPGA's that are finally used for in-body implants.

  11. Re:Imagine this idea by Bicoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would you really want a cranial jack? Or would you want to go wifi? Part of me would rather not have an unsightly USB port on the back of my skull, but then, being plugged in all the time woulf make you more vulnerable to hacking. When someone hacks your PC, it's not a huge deal...at worst, you have to reformat your hard drive. But if they hacked your brain...

    I see this mainly as a way to have true input/output from a cybernetic prosthesis, allowing the fake leg to do real things. Maybe hardcore MMOG players (read: otaku) would get it as well so they could truly live in those environments and escape reality. Other than than....do people really want the privacy of their own thoughts violated? A mindreading device would crash and burn because everyone has their own secrets they don't want anyone else to know. Though black market industry might take over...consider the House of Blue Lights from Gibson's Burning Chrome. Or chips in two people's brains (one monitoring input and one controlling output) so that one of the people is basically experiencing and controlling the other body. I could see a lot of market for THAT for government, celebrities, and big business...want to go somewhere but you don't want to have to be followed by bodygards? Use a puppet body so no matter what happens to the body, you're still safe at home.

    Regardless, this is more likely to become a black market technology. You can use it in too many unethical ways that would never be approved by law but still have both the $$ and desire to be done.

    --
    If not all sentients are human, couldn't it be possible that not all humans are sentient either?
  12. Not too bright a scientist? by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Brain fingerprinting works by measuring and analyzing split-second spikes in electrical activity in the brain when it responds to something it recognizes. ...if a suspected murderer was shown a detail of the crime scene that only he would know, his brain would involuntarily register that knowledge. ... A person who had never seen that crime scene would show no reaction.

    So the detail is blood in a clawfoot tub. Maybe you have a clawfoot tub? Maybe you watched a dozen different movies with blood/tub scenes. Maybe you have the same exact Teledyne Waterpic that the murder victim has hanging in his shower. You could recognize anything for any number of reasons. Not only that, but your memory changes over time. After 23 years that guy could have been imagining innocence scenarios for so long it looked to the scanner like he was innocent.

    Sorry, I don't buy it at all.

    --

    Operator, give me the number for 911!
  13. Way to overhype a strory... by Mac+Degger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Go /.! Now you don't even bother to have the submitter read the article!

    The Infineon chip doesn't connect to the brain. You put tiny slices of brain matter (neurons) in the chip (in a suspension inside the chip) and can then run current through those slices. No direct brain connection at all. And of course, those signals through the neurons on the chip can be recorded and put on screen...but no "recording of signals from the brain"...dunno where he even got that from. Must be on crack.

    Still, it's a cool development; as the article says, we can now do better research over a longer period of time, for a better picture of how neurons work.

    --
    -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  14. Please... by Quadriceps · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Everyone is letting their imagination run away with them. Not that that's a bad thing (that's the premise of great sci-fi) but there's nothing in the articles to suggest we'll have microchips implanted to record thoughts or USB ports on our skulls any time soon. As an MD I know a little something about neuroscience as well as implantable devices, and can assure you those scenarios are least a hundred years off, and probably a lot more. We have barely scratched the surface of how memory and thought are encoded, much less capturing that data.

    Both of the articles discuss observing only electrical activity. While useful, it is analogous to an EKG, just a graph of currents that can tell us the heart rate yet gives us little functional info beyond that. It can't tell you what the blood pressure is, or what the quality or quantity of the blood components is. The devices described are only a little more invasive than a device already in use to diagnose certain brain abnormalities: the electroencephalograph (EEG). It may diagnose epilepsy and sometimes causes of dementia, can suggest the occasional tumor and can tell us a person is brain dead. That's about it. It certainly doesn't tell the world what you're thinking, your sexual preference, or your illicit file-sharing habits.

    The article on brain fingerprinting makes clear (at least to me) that the machine is of the same concept as a lie-detector test, though perhaps more advanced and reliable. IMHO, the test is not self-incriminating any more than that damning fingerprint you accidentally left at the crime scene.