The Faded Sun

jlowery writes "Robert X. Cringely seems to think so. Forget the hardware side: what does this mean to the future of Java? Will there be enough incentive to continue to develop the language for whoever acquires Sun? Or will Java developers have to swallow hard and submit to the whims of the dark overlord? Maybe I'll switch to Mac development, after all."

Comments

Sounds trollish

[r6144]

I know Sun is losing money, but this article sounds subjective and trollish all the same. Anyone care to confirm the facts mentioned?

He's right, sorta.

[idiotnot]

Sun's just been overtaken by events. If anything, they ought to be an attractive buyout target for somebody (IBM, Apple). Solaris is still a good OS, Java's still a good technology.

I will say this, I think they're in better shape than SGI -- but that's not saying much.

I remember awhile back when those $1000 Sun workstations were released. One of the most cogent responses I saw was something to the extent of, four years ago, I'd have one on order already, now I just don't care.

You can have an amazing *nix workstation on PC hardware. If you want polish and flash, buy a Mac (he says as he types this on the iBook he just bought....)

Re:He's right, sorta.

[Billly Gates]

Not to mention 6-7 years ago you had to buy expensive compilers and desktop environments with your sun. A good c compiler cost 3 grand!

With Linux/FreeBSD you not only have a unix based operating system for a pc but you have a free intel otpimized c/c++, pascal, fortran, and java compilers as well as free desktop environments that are supperior to CDE that solaris workstations came with.

How much would all those improvements in 1996 for a sun workstation plus a good quality X-server would cost? Several thousand at least. Linux/BSD distro come with so much software that it makes today's pc's supperior to the old sun's. Even at 1k they would be behind the lintel pc back then unless you had serious bucks.

Today the sparc version of gcc has improved and is more optimized so the compiler problem is gone unless your in the scientific/engineering community and still need to purchase an expensive compiler. You can download all of the linux based software packages from the linux distro's for Solaris but several years ago these software packages were not their, sucked, and high speed internet connections and large disk space was a problem back then.

This is how linux started. Its the software. I started Linux back in 98 just because I could not afford the enterpise edition of Visual C++ and the introductory edition was crippled. I only cared about gnu c/c++. c++ was not fully supported in dos/windows with mingwin.

Being back ontopic what benefit does Solaris have besides the server room? All the innovatiness of old unix is taken place today on Linux and Windows. Sun has been gutted out from the bottum up like some predicted back in the mid to late nineties. However it was predicted NT would do this and not another unix. Since Linux has all the benefits of Unix then Sun is no longer needed.

Re:it is VERY trollish

[haus]

Well Oracle may opt to disagree with you. All you have to do is go to their home page [no link, if you can not find it you need help]. They are pushing running Oracle on Linux in a big way. When it comes to corporate databases there is Oracle and a bunch of companies that no one cares about.

Or if you would like another example, how about the Enhanced Traffic Management System (ETMS). This is a Air Traffic Control (ATC) system used by the FAA to handle flow control, redirecting traffic around severe weather and other fun things along those lines. Currently the system is running mostly on HP-UX servers. But people have realized that they are paying far to much for what they get, so they have started replacing these HP Servers with cheap Intel boxes running Red Hat. No one seems to care about the fast response time for on-site maintenance, because HP NEVER meets their contracted maintenance time to begin with. [The FAA pays for 4 hour response time on the HP machines and I can not recall a single instance in the last two years that HP has made the time slot at any site in the nation, occasionally taking MULTIPLE DAYS]. With the cheaper boxes you can simple keep extra spares lying around and swap out as needed, still saving large amounts of money.

Sure SUN can take the lion's share of the really big boxes, but there is not enough demand to justify a company anywhere near SUN's current size. And even that will not go uncontested, IBM wants their share of that market so does HP. But if that is all that is left for SUN, they will starve to death.

Although I wish them the best, I do agree that they need to do something and do it quickly.

Re:it is VERY trollish

[CrudPuppy]

Sure, oracle isn't dumb. They are pushing Oracle on Linux because they realize that Linux is a segment they cannot afford to ignore at this point.

You are certainly correct that Sun needs to change, I wasn't even trying to argue that. Linux is undeniably poised to overtake much of the UNIX market share in the next 5 years.

My point about big applications on cheap hardware may have been too vague.

Any application that can be easily spread across lots of machines without the use of expensive options or 3rd party software (oracle parallel server, veritas cluster, etc) is a good candidate for linux on cheap hardware.

The weblayer at my company is a perfect example. I can buy 10+ of my 2-way Intel machines for the price of one big Sun box. So we buy more than we need, and toss em into the spare parts bin when they fail. sit those puppies behind a load director and you're set.

The database layer is another story entirely. They require a large amount of horsepower, and the whole operation dies if they go down. This means it *must* sit on big, reliable hardware with a support contract