Swiss Tax Office distributes Mozilla and OpenOffice

David Gerard writes "From Heise (via Mozillazine: taxpayers in the Swiss canton of Geneva are being given a CD with a French version of Mozilla 1.2.1, OpenOffice.org 1.0.1 and tax program GEtax 2002. Rough English translation from Google." This strikes me as a really cool idea. I already get the cards that tell me to file online rather than fill out paper forms, but it still forces me to buy tax software every year.

Comments

Terrific!

[Azureflare]

This is a step that should be made be more governments, to ease the tax process for people who don't want to spend money for a tax program. Jeez, we have to pay the taxes, why do we have to pay for a tax program to pay the taxes??

Tax office... Hrmm

[slashhax0r]

I'd rather see governments switching to open source and either using the saved dollars for something ie: education/heathcare, or just give us some tax rebates.. Neat idea though. P.s. fp?

My 2cents

[Anonymous Coward]

Mozilla's introscreen needs to be changed. As it is, it is grossly inappropriate for use by the masses. I don't think the Mozilla crowd have any idea how socially inappropriate it is to be seen using a browser with the flame-throwing dinosaur in the introscreen. This is not a troll, it is just basic marketing sense.

Re:My 2cents

[TheRaven64]

I don't think the Mozilla crowd have any idea how socially inappropriate it is to be seen using a browser with the flame-throwing dinosaur in the introscreen.
Really? I installed Moz on my mother's computer (and she is a 100% certified technophobe). Her comment was 'I like the dragon thing. The spining world one [Internet Explorer] was quite boring'. Why exactly do you think the 'flame-throwing dinosaur' is inappropriate? Who exactly does it offend?

Re:My 2cents

[acedtect]

Perhaps I am just dull but explain why a fire-breathing dragon is socially inappropriate. Is it racist? No. Is it sexist? No. Is it juvenile? Possibly but I don't think so. Are you saying that when button-down boring business types load it it will offend their chrome and cherrywood sensibilities and start the painful process of creative thinking?

It is obviously not too socially inappropiate. Although the Swiss Tax Office is widely known as a freewheeling socially inappropriate hotbed of frivolity.

IRS and corporate welfare

[kkirk007]

The IRS this year was considering releasing its own tax software, available for free. Then the major tax software distributors (TurboTax, TaxCut, TaxAct, etc) cried foul..."if you release an electronic 1040 for free we'll go out of business!" and so instead the IRS struck an accord with them that they would give away their product to people with incomes under $30K /year.

Since when was the IRS responsible to the software companies to keep their revenue stream going, rather than providing a useful tax service to the public?

Re:IRS and corporate welfare

[div_2n]

As much as I wish that the US Govt would invest heavily in such free and possibly OSS, I can't really say I blame them.

If you think of the Govt as a business (which it really is) then producing software that puts patrons out of business (tax paying companies, taxes on purchased software) isn't smart for them in the short term.

Of course, in the long term, that money will likely get reinvested back to them anyway as people have more money to spend on other things.

On a sort of off topic note, it seems to me that we as (self-perceived) enlightened OSS advocates should lobby (send letters) law makers to require all agencies that produce software for any purpose to put it in the public domain. Of course if national security is at stake, they don't have to release it.

Re:IRS and corporate welfare

[Hollins]

I'm a little more cynical. While I have no doubt Intuit et al. raised a fuss, I think the government also realized that they would lose money through more widespread distribution of tax prep software. With all the talk about tax fraud, it is seldom mentioned that most people overpay their taxes. Tax prep software always reduces how much I pay over what I would have computed by filling out the forms manually. The software's interview process this year helped me find an educational deduction I wasn't aware of, optimize our IRA contributions, run different scenarios for next year, etc. It's virtually impossible to figure all this stuff out with a 1040 and a pencil, which is how most people do their taxes. If prep software were free, officially sanctioned by the IRS and as full-featured as TurboTax, I suspect revenue from individual and joint returns would drop substantially.

Re:IRS and corporate welfare

[jaaron]

Actually, it's a tricky situation because you're talking about the line between the government and the market. Should the government compete or even enter areas of the private sector where firms are currently conducting activities? In some cases, it might make sense, but it's not something that should be happening often or you end up with a bloated government that runs and produces everything.

Taking this to extremes (forgive me for a moment), but if the government will provide free (or low cost) tax software, why not give me free or low cost online access so I can file online? And why not give me a computer too. And hey, I need an operating system for the darn thing. Oh, and throw in a printer while your at it. Perhaps this seems silly, but when you deal with public services, you have to consider the long term consequences these trends can begin. Bloated services often start lean and mean and well intentioned.

Generally, in any case that the private sector is offering a viable product, then the government shouldn't come in and replace them. Now the case of tax software is a little odd since that market is essentially feeding off of the tax service the government offers to begin with. One could also argue that the increased competition of the government might help the situation by forcing the current private firms to better their service. In some markets like education and mail/package delivery such competition works.

My point here is that just because some nation starts offering open source tax software doesn't mean it's a great idea for the US. There are pros and cons that should be weighed.

Re:IRS and corporate welfare

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think of the Govt as a business (which it really is)

No.

Let businesses do business, and the government, govern. Sorry, but plenty of things (Education, Science, Law enforcement...) are not business, not to be decided by "business" criteria.

Re:IRS and corporate welfare

[timeOday]

What if I started a business selling custom-printed 4-color tax forms, could I sue the govt to stop mailing out the IRS-prepared tax packets so people would have to pay me money to prepare their taxes?

The current situation truly is corporate welfare because setting up a free, official website would increase the rate of e-filing, and that would save the govt. tons of money on tax processing, not to mention publishing all those tax forms and instruction books.

It's a simple matter of conduction govt. business in the most efficient and effective way. Purposely creating govt. inefficiencies so private companies can make money is dumb.

Free Tax Program for US

[nurb432]

While would be great, i dont see it happening, as we have 50 state tax rules and sets of forms to deal with. Then you have the thousands of pages of tax code for federal..

Its why places like HR-BLock can make so much $$ on what *should* be a simple process.

If they just would goto a "flat tax" the entire problem would go away.. Thousands of hours, millions of dollars wasted....

Re:Free Tax Program for US

[Anonymous Coward]

If they went to a flat tax system, then corporations and the top .5% of people would actually have to pay taxes. So no, we're never going to a flat tax system.

Re:Free Tax Program for US

[sholden]

A "flat tax" would not make the entire problem go away, it would just mean that the poor would pay even more tax (or the rich pay less, or both).

A flat tax is no simpler than a progressive tax. Both take a few seconds to work out on a calculator or with pen and paper for the brave (forgetting to carry that 1 could be an expensive exercise :).

The problem is tax credits, rebates, exemptions, etc, etc. Of course each little exemption or rebate looks simple on its own (and benefits someone), but taken together it's a pain.

Of course charities wouldn't like the idea of doing away with the tax deductions that go with donations.

The system in the middle ages was pretty simple too. The tax collector just looks at your stuff and tells you how much you owe and the big guys with swords take it from you...

Do you really believe

[Anonymous Coward]

that if the government were to provide a free tax program, that it would find your best result or offer tax saving features?

Chances are, the software would include features advantageous to the irs only. It would include things you *don't* want the irs to necessarily know.

I would much rather see...

[Anonymous Coward]

a much simplified tax system. Create a flat tax with a high minimum. (you make less than the minimum, and you pay no taxes).

Eliminate all the deductibles.

Everyone's tax form would look like:

Your total income for 2002:
x
subtract the minimum of y:
x-y = z
multiply z times the tax rate:
z * rate = total tax
Tax you paid:
paid
find the difference:
total paid - total tax = your refund
OR
total tax - total paid = tax owed

Much simpler.

Why not simplify so no software is necessary?

[The Mutant]

IMHO this misses the fundamental problem; tax codes in most countries are just too damn complex.

In the United States they've managed to create such a complicated system that with few exceptions, the services of a professional - or the use of sophistcated and costly software - are necessary. This is ridiculous!

My situation is a little bit more complicated than most since I'm American and live in London. Last year my US tax return alone was 88 pages! Unbelievable.

And yeah, I have to use an accounting firm to complete my return even though I've got a Masters in Finance. The cost of an honest mistake discovered years later would be far too high for me to risk it.

So I get to pay KMPG about two thousand Pounds to complete my US and UK tax returns. Great.

What's REALLY interesting about it...

[koi88]

... is that OSS is distributed together with the tax software and that every adult gets a copy.

This way many people who are often too "lazy" to download new software and stick with their included Internet Explorer can try a different browser.

Same with OpenOffice: I know a lot of people who are CONVINCED that there is no alternative to MS Office... I'm sure many will give it a try-- in the end it means you can save a lot of money...

ps: Hey! I posted this story yesterday, but it was rejected... I know, don't complain...

Re:Poor v rich

[gorgon]

The tax you're talking about above would not bring in enough money. The rich and much of the middle class would pay a lot less than they do now.

Your person making $200k probably pays $30k+ right now, so your are talking about roughly a 50% tax decrease. I make a little over half of that $200k, and I am paying just a little less than the $17k.

There's nothing inherently evil about a flat tax, but I think that it is a stupid idea. The rich get the most benefits from the current system and they have more money to spare, so they should pay more in income taxes. The poor have to pay enough on the local level in most areas on sales and property taxes. If anything, I think that the current system isn't progressive enough. We should be increases the tax rate on the higher levels. And if you want to cut out taxes on dividends then I think that the taxes should be cut out on interest from bonds and savings accounts as well.