TurboTax DRM Writes to Your Boot Sector?!

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TurboTax DRM Writes to Your Boot Sector?!

Posted by ryuzaki0 on Sunday February 16, 2003 @05:08AM from the now-that-ain't-cool dept.

ltwally writes "As reported on Slashdot (amongst other sites) recently, the latest version of TurboTax is laden with DRM software. Even worse, however, is that it apparently writes to your hard drive's boot-sector , as reported at Extreme Tech here. As I'm sure most Slashdotters already know, the boot-sector is often times used for silly things like boot-loaders and such. "

26 of 733 comments (clear)

Well, if they're writing... by spazoid12 · 2003-02-16 05:10 · Score: 5, Funny

to my boot sector...I hope it's a really lovely story. Maybe a romance novel would be nice.
Heh, silly me. by numbski · 2003-02-16 05:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

I came *this* close to installing TurboTax on my Mac via VirtualPC or Bochs (cheaper) and then I read the box closely.

"Will not work on the Macintosh Platform using Windows emulation software."

I took it back and used TaxAct instead. I nearly installed it on my fiancee's PC instead. Ick.

You have to be on some sort of crack to write to a person's boot sector. Period. That's just off limits.

--
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
How Appropriate by yukster · 2003-02-16 05:12 · Score: 5, Funny

Virii write to boot sector

DRM writes to boot sector

hmmmm...
1. Re:How Appropriate by crawling_chaos · 2003-02-16 05:24 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  The install instructions for TurboTax state that it will not install correctly with a virus checker enabled. Now we know why.
  
  --
  You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
  -- Colonel Adolphus Busch
2. Re:How Appropriate by Anonvmous+Coward · 2003-02-16 08:09 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  "The OED disagrees with you. Viruses is the plural. "
  
  SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!
  
  Wow. I've been building that one up for a while now! Man you guys get into the dorkiest arguments here. No wonder the Valentine's advice didn't go over so well here, heh.
  
  Seriously, put this argument to bed. It is not +1, Insightful. It is not +1, Interestinging. It is -1, Redundant. Viruses and Virii both are acceptable answers. Why? Not because anybody's declared it, but because we know what you're talking about. Those of us that had to take mandatory latin classes need a place to vent this stuff.
3. Re:How Appropriate by dasunt · 2003-02-16 09:12 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Anonvmous Coward writes:
  
  Viruses and Virii both both are acceptable answers. Not because anybody's declared it, but because we know what you're talking about. Those of us that had to take mandatory latin classes need a place to vent this stuff.
  
  thnx. dat's y i rite like dis. odder peeps complane, but i say dat u can reed it so dont wine. inglish magers complane to much.
  
  Actually, I'll go with the anal twits here. Virus has no plural in latin, thus you go with the english plural rules which says add an -es. Its a quibble, but if you want to seem educated, then understand what you are talking about, and what terms you are using.
  
  OTOH, it wouldn't suprise me if the 'virii' term passes into the dictionaries in a dozen or so years. Other false latin plurals, such as octopii, haven't, but virii seems to be in common usage, and dictionaries don't only strive to show correct usage and spelling, but they also incorporate new usages and spellings, however inaccurate, if the usage or spelling is accepted as being correct.
that settles it by dubiousmike · 2003-02-16 05:15 · Score: 5, Funny

Now I am defintely NOT doing my taxes...again.
only in danger if you dual-boot by ltwally · 2003-02-16 05:16 · Score: 5, Interesting

TurboTax's DRM software only modifies sector 33 of your boot-sector. Basically what this means is that for Windows only users, you're safe.

If, however, you use other boot-loaders or "alternative" OS's, you might be in for an unpleasant surprise as things suddenly stop booting. YIKES!.

Anyhoo.. just thought that I'd point out that any of you that just have to run TurboTax should be "safe" unless you run something non-M$.

--

/dev/random
1. Re:only in danger if you dual-boot by Pius+II. · 2003-02-16 05:25 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  This is software targeted at average users, meaning that it is easily possible that some of them still use hard drives which store additional enablers in the MBR to overcome all those silly BIOS limits (512 mb ought to be enough for everyone. No wait. Shit. Well, then let's extend this to 2 GB. Oh, damn. 8 GB. Oh, there goes another. 32 GB. Oh no, wrong again. 128 GB. To be continued...).
  I don't think I have to mention what overwriting those drivers means to the users data; plus, you aren't even likely to be able to restore those drivers.
3D Studio Max does a similar thing. by dnaumov · 2003-02-16 05:24 · Score: 5, Interesting

3DS Max like to keep it's registration information in the boot-sector and of course it's ONLY compatible with the Windows bootloaders.. This means that if you have a dual-boot system with Linux using GRUB to boot Windows, the moment you register 3DS Max from within your Windows install, your bootloader will be practically wiped out. If you reinstall the bootloader again, 3DS MAX will complain that you have to re-register and obviously, if you do so, your bootloader will be wiped yet again.
1. Re:3D Studio Max does a similar thing. by Semi-Psychic+Nathan · 2003-02-16 06:16 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  No problem, as long as you don't need to boot your computer.
  
  --
  I have nothing to allude to, and I am alluding to it.
This is a wonderful way to do things . . . by D1rtbag · 2003-02-16 05:24 · Score: 5, Funny

I can just imagine every piece of software writing its particular attempt to defeat piracy in our boot sectors; finally, we'd have a regular mosh-pit of games and apps regularly crashing our systems and giving virus-checkers fits of apoplexy. Bravo to Intuit for being a trendsetter .
Just file your taxes electronically for free by macemoneta · 2003-02-16 05:26 · Score: 5, Informative

Here is the intro page at the IRS, where you can select a tax preparer that will let you file and submit electronically for free. Check the criteria for qualification; most people qualify.

If you insist on using TurboTax, use their web-based vesion; it's alway current and no software gets installed on your PC.

Personally, even though I've been using TurboTax for over 10 years, I will be using a different tax preparerer this year. I find their association with this kind of DRM crap distastful.

--
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-16 05:28 · Score: 5, Informative

...and the Mac version has no "DRM" at all.

~jeff
Administrator by yerricde · 2003-02-16 05:29 · Score: 5, Informative

As I understand it, a program running as Administrator on NT can elevate its privileges to LocalSystem and do just about anything, such as write sectors to physical drives.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?
Re:CDilla by Erik+Hollensbe · 2003-02-16 05:35 · Score: 5, Informative

If you had read the article, this is C-Dilla's LMS that they're using.

They also proved using a sector editor that the location is correct.
The ultimate tax software! by InfinityWpi · 2003-02-16 05:37 · Score: 5, Funny

Yes, our new tax software does to your hard drive what the IRS is going to do to you!
Re:CDilla by Ldir · 2003-02-16 05:39 · Score: 5, Informative

They are the same thing. TurboTax uses the Macrovision C-Dilla (Safecast) license manager. It is covertly installed when you install TurboTax. It is not removed when you remove TurboTax, however. Intuit now offers a C-Dilla uninstaller on their web site.
I'm one of the legions of long-time TurboTax users who switched to TaxCut this year. Glad I did, TaxCut works just as well, costs half as much, and has no DRM or other installation games. As a bonus, it imports TurboTax data flawlessly.
We went through this before, in the early days of the PC (early 80's). Companies kept using more and more obnoxious forms of copy protection, making software more brittle, and more and more difficult to install and use. Finally enough consumers revolted and the software companies wised up. Looks like Intuit needs a history lesson.
Not the boot sector! by steveha · 2003-02-16 05:51 · Score: 5, Interesting

This annoying DRM junk does not involve the boot sector. According to the actual article (which I actually read), they found it writing to track 0, sector 33.

Track 0, sector 0 is the boot sector. The partition table is stored in this sector. The rest of track 0 (sectors 1 through 63) is not officially used, so some DRM systems like to stash data there.

What makes this annoying is when you try to install another DRM-enabled product that also wants to write in the same place; after you install the second program, the first one will accuse you of being a pirate, and it will refuse to run anymore. Since there is no standard for using this space, its easy for two DRM systems to conflict with each other.

If there were a standard for using that space, presumably the DRM authors wouldn't want to use it! After all, someone would write a utility that showed you what programs were using that space, and for what... and then it wouldn't be obscure, and so it wouldn't be "secure" anymore. Feh.

I won't ever buy programs that pull stunts like this.

steveha

--
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Re:Tax preparation for Macintosh by titzandkunt · 2003-02-16 05:51 · Score: 5, Funny

How, in the name of God, does a post which consists of three questions get modded "5 Informative"?

"5 Interrogative", would be more appropriate, no?

T&K.

--
Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable...
Re:Analog tax returns by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-16 06:00 · Score: 5, Funny

Let me clarify: if you're on slashdot, your time means nothing to you.
As has been pointed out. . . by kfg · 2003-02-16 06:11 · Score: 5, Informative

like, by the article and stuff, it doesn't write to the MBR. It writes to sector 33 of the boot *track.*

The problem is that since the entire track is reserved for boot information, not just the sector holding your MBR, things like LILO and GRUB may be residing there as well.

Boot loaders are legitimate boot records. Software registration codes are not. They don't belong in the boot track, whether they write to the MBR or not.

KFG
I loooove TaxAct by ChrisCampbell47 · 2003-02-16 06:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

TaxAct is accurate and full of features. I've been using it for years (the paid version, which is still cheap). The UI is super slick and anybody's grandma could figure it out. Vote against DRM bullsiht like this with your wallet.

--
One simple rule for its versus it's
LEGALLY Circumventing (sortof) all this crap by nurd68 · 2003-02-16 07:22 · Score: 5, Interesting

1.) I just happen to have an inspiron 7500 with no screen (hinges broke off). Works fine when hooked to a CRT, though.

2.) It came with a Win98 license that I retained, but never used (it was a GNU/Linux box).

3.) Install legal copy of Win98

4.) Install copy of TurboTax

5.) Do taxes

6.) Pass laptop around to family and friends, who hook it up to their monitors and printers, but (as per the license) it is only installed on ONE machine. (The machine just happens to move around a lot...)
Corporate hax0rs? by DoraLives · 2003-02-16 07:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

How, precisely, are these people any different from some pimply-faced cracker bent over a keyboard, scanning ports, and swilling Mountain Dew? They're doing things on the sly that potentially can wreck your system, negate your privacy, or god only knows what else, and they're definitely not on the up and up with it.
How can ANY of us expect the hax0rs to behave themselves when Pillars of the System are behaving just as badly or worse?

--
Is it fascism yet?
Macrovision by Eraser_ · 2003-02-16 07:47 · Score: 5, Informative

Get This.

TurboTax also broke my DX8.1 install. Turns out, those fancy movies that come with it are Macrovision encoded. NT user? check your Services for a magical new service (I can't remember the name, I've long since ripped it a new one) which even if you disable it, running turbotax fires it right back up to automatic. Lord this gives me a new reason to get a full refund from them. How can one tell if their bootsector has some extra bits in it?