Slashdot Mirror
The Demise of Model Rocketry?
Mark Lytle writes "Due to restrictions imposed by the rather broad Homeland Security Act, the hobby I suspect many Slashdotters, being technology buffs, grew up with, the Estes Model Rocket is now firmly on the endangered species list. The little cardboard rockets I learned science with in high school are evidently suspected of being potential weapons of mass destruction. Go figure. Perhaps by getting involved, we can stop this sillyness... Anyway, i hope so...."
Read the article! The problem is not the rocket but that shippers won't ship the solid fuel motors any longer because their employees would have to get licenced with the ATFE.
How are you going to build the motors?
'Nuff said.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
According to the link above:
Amateurs who make their own ammonium perchlorate composite propellants will also need an ATF permit to move ammonium perchlorate composite propellant within the state it is made.
(video at http://www.ryankramer.com/planes/se/sefull.avi if you want to see it. inverted flat spin at 6:40 is definitely something a terrorist would do!)
You really don't have the slightest bloody clue what you're talking about.
Northern Ireland is not a province at war these days. Nor has it ever been - there have been serious terrorist problems on the part of both Republican and Loyalist organisations (and no thanks to the support shown by US elements for IRA terrorists), but right now violence is at a low. Unfortunately, it's being supplanted by infighting & organised crime, but it's not now and never has been open warfare. Go and read some bloody history books, ignoramus.
As for "get the hell out of Ireland", talk about a gross oversimplification. Do you honestly believe for one moment that that would solve any problems, bearing in mind that around one million Northern Irish people don't actually want to be part of the Republic?
By the way, what has 1914 got to do with anything? Or do you mean the Easter Rising of 1916, or perhaps the War of Independence of 1919-1922?
Having skipped arson 101, could someone tell me what happens when you mix gasoline and soap and light it?
It's better known as "napalm".
This is about the handling and shipment of hazmat (hazerdous materials). Ammonium perchlorate composite propellant can be quite destructive and we have decided that in order to transport it you should have a permit. Ghastly isn't it?
Uh... No. Radar systems aren't really looking for nuclear missiles being launched from continental USA, and besides, the difference between a 20ft long missile that's going intercontinental, and a rocket that's about 12 inches long is enormous, (different radar signatures, different trajectory, different speeds, different...)
I imagine it's because they might be used to disperse chemical agents, though the best I was ever capable of was dispering little model rocket parts.
Yes. I imagine you do imagine that. However, that isn't why these are being banned; it's more the materials that are used to construct the rockets are being clamped down upon; because they can be used to make much bigger rockets than model rocketary. The politicians drafting the laws don't really care whether model rocketry gets destroyed or not. In fact, they don't even care much whether the laws are practical at all; currently the laws are coming into play that preclude foreigners from driving explosives within the USA, which sounds fine, till you start to think about delivery men crossing the border from Canada and so forth; or people with green cards who are living in USA perfectly legitimately etc. etc.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"From what I read in the article about the increased requirements for background checks and permits for shipping these low-class propellent explosives, I would have say that it looks like it will impact america's favorite patriotic display as well: fireworks.
Bush, the killer of the 4th of July...
-Chris
-- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
I'm assuming this was a joke. Much more capable delivery systems exist in the form of r/c planes, light aircraft, needles in a crowd, etc.
The chances of a model rocket, which is capable of lifting grams, actually becoming a preferred delivery system for any terrorist is nearly nil. To say they are inaccurate is an understatment. To say they have a short range (couple thousand feet at best), is an understatement.
Larger rockets can be created by means of combining many motors together but this is more complex to launch, harder to construct so that it will survive launch, and quickly becomes very expensive. Even if multiple motors are used, it still becomes a tradeoff of payload versus range. If you any sizable payload, your range is significantly going to suffer. These things are just not designed for heavy lifting. They certainly are not military grade and they leave a rather noteworthy exhaust trail behind. Not like you can hide and launch these things.
Long story short, only an idiot would attempt to use these things for any form of terrorism.
That fire was caused by an improperly stored oxygen generator, which was also incorrectly marked as inactive. ie: The person shipping it (an internal parts transfer for the airline) screwed up.
There are upwards of fifty of these devices in every commercial airliner flying in the world at this moment (some 2-3000 aircraft over the U.S. alone), with none of THEM going off accidentally.
If someone can properly ship me a steak in dry ice, there should be no problem getting a properly packaged C5 engine to me.
No more road flares either, I take it?
Butane does not create a very good pressure wave when combusted, especially not compared to the black powder used in most rocket engines. It is liquid in the lighters, but must be oxygenated to combust well. That is why butane is used to make flames in lighters and torches, not explosives. As a kid we used to blow up lighters by throwing them in fires (don't try this at home hehe). They typically make a large flame (1m long) or fireball (~1/4m diameter) for less than 1/10 second and fly a few meters in the air. A truckload of lighters would make a bigger fireball, possible break some windows and produce a neat rumble, but wouldn't take down buildings or spread some WMD very far. And it would take a lot of work to make sure all that butane had plenty of oxygen to burn quickly. Otherwise it would just burn like a large gas fireplace.
How about BIC lighters? Each one containes enough butane to make a nice little bomb!
First off.. not nearly enough butane to do any damage. Second they are already restricted. You maye carry up to two (2) butane style lighters on board an aircraft. The complete list of what is/isnt allowed can be found here
http://cryptome.org/tsa021403.txt
The relevant text is:
(9) Lighters (maximum of two, fueled with non-refillable liquefied gas (Bic-type) or absorbed liquid (Zippo-type).
(10) Matches (maximum of four books, strike on cover, book type).
If privacy had a tombstone it would read "We did it for your own good" . -- John Twelve Hawks
Actually, model rocket motors are unbelievably safe. You can literally set them on fire, and nothing will happen (Yes, I tried). Few things except an actual igniter can set them off; they're made to require a certain pressure and heat level that is otherwise very hard to reach.
Yeah, and it's not really this mythical substance everyone makes it out to be. Really, napalm is just sticky gasoline. It worked so well in vietnam because they could spray the shit everywhere and it would stick to the jungle and burn it down. It's really not any more volatile or dangerous than regular gasoline. There are actually more ways to make napalm than you can count, but they all involve, you guessed it, gasoline and a thickening agent. Styrofoam, soap, and supposedly even orange juice concentrate (though that was from the Anarchist's cookbook so I dunno if it's true) will all work.
The fact that oil is mostly priced in dollars and that everybody is dependent on it is a good portion of what makes the dollar so strong. If too many people price their oil in euros, the dollar loses demand and may inflate a whole lot due to the sudden oversupply of currency.
This might be the dumbest argument I've ever seen. Congratulations.
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