Slashdot Mirror
The Demise of Model Rocketry?
Mark Lytle writes "Due to restrictions imposed by the rather broad Homeland Security Act, the hobby I suspect many Slashdotters, being technology buffs, grew up with, the Estes Model Rocket is now firmly on the endangered species list. The little cardboard rockets I learned science with in high school are evidently suspected of being potential weapons of mass destruction. Go figure. Perhaps by getting involved, we can stop this sillyness... Anyway, i hope so...."
I've been launching rockets since I was six. I taught rocketry at a summer camp. Had to explain the facts of the Challenger incident to kids. Launching rockets perked them up and showed that, at least for them, life can go on.
Basic model rockets (not including the larger amateur rockets) can move fast, but I can't see their immediate danger to the public, as the Estes-type rockets stick to the =1 lb. rule, with very little medal, a plastic or balsa wood nose cone, and limited motor impulse, meaning that it can't lift anything huge. Any kid can tell you that a model rocket self-destructs easily when it strikes anything but air.
Now, I can see some yahoo loading up a Big Bertha payload rocket with a few grams of anthrax and trying to spread it over a neighborhood--that's a sad possibility. Much less likely to use these things as missiles as they just can't hold a lot of explosive charge and would only be dangerous enough in a salvo.
Also, model rockets of the store-bought type have basic aerodynamic stability with fins--no electronic guidance. So, even if the motor could burn long enough (which they can't--about 2-10 sec max), you couldn't guide the thing anywhere. The motors are solid, so there's no way to rig the basic rocket as a liquid-fuel missile, either.
I'd be more worried about R/C planes, which can carry more because they generate lift and can be guided over long distances.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Aren't those considered class 1 explosives as well? I've definitely seen fireworks with more propellant potential than an Estes rocket (just not the aerodynamics.)
Or are all these wussy shipping corporations who would rather piss customers off then deal with a regulation even touching fireworks in the first place? (It's not like they're made in the US, so I assume they get shipped to the netherregions of the US somehow...)
Is this the first time model rocketry has been "jeopardized"? I seem to remember not being able to do model rocketry back in the late 60's because of the paranoia over the Viet Nam war. Can anyone corroborate this?
I realize you said it in jest, but there have been reports of anti-Israeli terrorists planning on using remote-control model planes as flying bombs. See here.
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
At a local hobby shop, they now have a sign instructing you to inform the FAA of the approximate day and time of your launches.
For years, people have been launching them on the beach north of Chicago, and some of them can pop up on radar in curious ways. Rather than scrambling a few jets to investigate, they ask that you report launches in advance.
Couldn't resist. Seriously, they can have my model rocket when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
I would imagine that the paranoid US government would see growing tide private-sector rocketry as a major annoyance. They can claim anything from military radar interference to plausible methods of chemical and warhead delivery and use that to stop many legitimate efforts at small-scale and highly innovative engineering. I've read from John Carmack's posts somwhere that Armadillo Aerospace does not publish their flight control software for worry of illegitimate use.
Does anybody know how understanding the post 9/11 government is to private sector rocketry and what hoops you have to go through to get clearance for high altitude flights?
Oh, come on, people!!!
The conclusions drawn were reactionary. I don't see any reason why there would be any problem with getting bondable & insurable people to transport these "mostly harmless" Estes engines. What to gunsmiths and black-powder enthusiasts do? So, UPS *might not* ship them? No where does it say that UPS will STOP shipping.
This is nothing but pure "churn"
ScottKin
I don't give a rat's behind about "karma" here or anywhere else. Don't like what I have to say here? Deal with it!
It only makes sense to do so (ie permits for hazmat rated chems). I just hope they don't take it to a really ridiculous level like needing permits for hobby class rockets.
Prospecting Stinks. Stop Wasting Time on Cold Calling.
Why do we hate Islamic nations?
I was under the impression that it was because we valued freedom above all, and they stood for the antithesis of this. Perhaps someone could explain to me exactly how we can fight them by restricting our own freedom? If we allow our freedom to be taken in the name of freedom, then the terrorists have won already.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Goddard Space Flight Center, outside D.C., had the longest running series of model rocket launches in the country. The twice-a-month launches were well run and closely supervised, but Goddard suspended the program after 9/11. It's a shame; one of my son's earliest memories is a "girl with a green rocket" he saw at a launch I took him to when he was a toddler, and he was excited about flying his own rocket. Now we have to drive 100 miles farther to get to an organized launch.
This is the type of comment that, given appropriate airtime, could really help George Bush, John Ashcroft, Don Rumsfeld, and Tom Ridge plan a beautiful future for this country. In fact, I bet they have a team out looking for examples of ridiculous statements like this one made against counterterrorism efforts, as material to use in debates when rational people challenge the equally polarized and ridiculous statements the Administration makes in support of its counterterrorism agenda.
The people affected by the 9/11 attack were much more diverse than those of us who worked in lower Manhattan and had our lives turned upside down for a few months afterward. If one counts those people who were affected by the U.S. equity markets being shut down for four days, airline travel interruptions that lasted for weeks, and telecommunications in and out of the northeast being disrupted for months, the circle is much, much larger. And this was one incident, of which there will certainly be more. Contrary to what misterhaan thinks, if you are an American citizen, terrorism will most likely affect you, eventually if it hasn't already.
All that being said, I don't believe stocking up on duct tape, developing comprehensive data surveillance systems, or banning model rockets are appropriate responses to the problem. But I support better airline and customs security, better immigration systems, and the Patriot Act, among other things, as necessary steps to avoid the type of lifestyle currently enjoyed in places like Israel and Afghanistan.
I used to fly model rockets years ago, and really enjoyed it.
About 4 years ago, though, I got into remote control (RC) airplanes. That hobby kicks ass. It's not all that expensive, as far as hobbies go. You can get into it for less than $500, then your additional costs are minor if you don't wreck your plane much.
It's absolutely amazing what a good RC pilot can do with his airplane. The thrust to weight ratio of these planes is well over 1, so it's possible to hover the airplanes in midair.
Having flown both standard sized and model aircraft, I can tell you that the skills you need to develop for both are roughly the same. Flying model airplanes is a shitload cheaper and less likely to get you killed, though.
My biggest regret is that I didn't get into the hobby sooner. As with most things, the younger you are when you start, the better you'll be.
If you're interested, go by any good airplane hobby shop, and there will be some airplane geek there who can tell you how to get started. Better yet, just go to the hobby shop to look around, then ask them where the local model airplane fields are. An airfield will be run by a club that has people who can give you good advice on how to get started and train you how to fly. Plus, you'll get a really good chance to see what you're getting into, if there are some decent pilots showing off.
One word of advice regarding flying: It's a crapload harder than it looks. Everyone thinks that they'll be flying their first time out. In reality, you'll likely not be flying by yourself for your first 5 outings. Take things slowly, and you won't have to do a lot of plane rebuilding.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Actually, cedar shake shingle roofs are/were quite fashionable in certain high-dollar housing developments in the southern and western US. Unfortunately, if they are not re-treated with fire retardants on a regular basis (and, tell me, just how fire safety conscious do you think your average yuppie homeowner is?) they quickly become little better than palm frond thatching at resisting fire.
I think it was in 1983 that a mixture of shake shingles (not maintained), freezing temperatures (for SOME reason, people here in South Texas think that if you drip your faucets, the uninsulated pipes won't freeze, of course the Fire Dept won't be able to get adequate flow to fight fires either) and New Year's Eve (Bubba's kids just HAVE to shoot fireworks, weather AND County Ordinances be damned) resulted in a fire that I witnessed. It burned about 50% of a relatively new suburban subdivision to the ground (estimated average home price in the range of $85-95,000 for a "tract home").
Never discount the stupidity of "normal" people living in large metropolitan areas.
utter rubbish
As a part-time employee of a hobby shop, I can tell you that model rocketry as a hobby is practically dead. In a community of ~200,000 potential customers, I can count on one hand the number of times anyone purchased model rockets as a hobby. However, many area teachers still purchase bulk orders (we're talking hundreds of dollars worth) of rockets and engines for their science classes.
The notion that a free citizen can have a harmless hobby like model rocketry effectively destroyed by a not-very-well-thought-out law certainly should indicate something about the treatment the government dishes out.
A politician (or a group of them) passed a knee-jerk law to make it appear as though they were doing something relevant and productive in order to glean votes, and the citizens pay the price.
Look at most of the post 911 "security" legislation to see what I mean.
A politician is perfectly happy to shaft citizens to further his career... Haven't you ever heard of "screwing your way to the top"?
Maybe I needed to elaborate more in my post, but the connection I was trying to show is certainly not "flamebait". Sheesh.
Murphy was an optimist.
Should we mobilize many many billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of troops and our military's finest and best to isolated whackos dispersed around the globe in various loosely confederated pockets of extremism? Nope. This is a job for CIA snipers, not heavy bombers and tanks.
Actually, this is not possible given the current international laws (assuming, of course, you wish to abide by them). The world generally condemns personal assassinations in preference to the traditional style of general warfare. The logic of this, I must confess, escapes me. Why is it worse to kill the single leader (or small group) than to wage a war on a populace of followers killing thousands while the leader continues to live and prepare for the next war? If someone could explain this, I would truly appreciate it, for it has confused me for some time (and it is my hope that there in fact is an intelligent reason for this). However, like it or not, this is the current state of international law and opinion. If we are to remove Saddam Hussein from office, we have to do it through a military invasion.
I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!
Of interest to this discussion from Defense Tech:
HAMAS TOYS WITH DEATH
A leading Palestinian militant has been killed by, of all things, a remote-controlled toy plane. Hamas chieftain Nidal Farahat and others had been working on a way to load explosives onto such toys and use them as weapons of terror.
On Sunday, Farahat appeared to fall victim to his own designs. He and five other Hamas operatives died in a Gaza City car bombing. A toy plane was found inside the vehicle.
"This is an assassination done by Israel," Dr. Mahmoud al-Zahar, a leader of Hamas, told the New York Times.
In January, DebkaFile claimed that Yasser Arafat was arranging for the deployment of new weapons: "Model planes packed with explosives and operated by remote control."
Last month, Palestinian toy importers in Jerusalem and Ramallah were told to order hundreds of these toys for distribution to Palestinian children in hospitals. Subsidies from European Union member-governments could legitimately be allocated to this humanitarian purpose. The model airplanes were purchased in Europe and shipped quite openly to the Palestinian shopkeepers.
According to our sources, not a single toy reached an injured Palestinian child. The model planes were sent to Palestinian workshops for conversion into miniature air bombers with explosive payloads.
DebkaFile estimated that the modified toys could fly for about a kilometer, and an altitude of 300 meters.
posted: 5:14 PM
- i fart in your general direction -