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Swiss Researchers Find A Hole In SSL

in4mation writes "The folks at LASEC have found a flaw in the SSL protocol. Quoting Professor Serge Vaudenay from a BBC article the security problem is in 'the SSL protocol itself and not in how we use it or how we implement it.' Apparently the flow only affects webmail and not banking or credit card payments and took less than an hour (160 attempts) to crack." Update: 02/20 20:52 GMT by T : Kurt Seifried writes to say that this is almost exactly wrong: "The flaw is in IMPLEMENTATION, NOT THE PROTOCOL. Due to the way error checks are handled an attacker can find out which error condition occurred by measuring the response. The solution is trivial, a path that forces OpenSSL to do the second check even if the first one fails, thus denying the remote attacker any information as to which exact error condition occurred." He includes a link to the security advisory at openssl.org. Update: 02/20 21:49 GMT by T : Read on below for some more information from SSL 3.0 designer Paul Kocher.

Kocher, President & Chief Scientist of Cryptography Research, Inc., writes:

The referenced paper (http://lasecwww.epfl.ch/memo_ssl.shtml) describes how timing variations in SSL/TLS implementations can be used in certain situations to slowly gather information about encrypted data. If the certain conditions are met, the attacker can decrypt some information from the message (e.g., a password). Strictly speaking, the fact that implementations reveal sensitive information in timing channels is an implementation issue, not a flaw in the underlying cryptographic protocol. This doesn't make the issue unimportant, however, and timing attacks are big deal for implementers because they are easy to introduce, notoriously tricky to detect, and often difficult to eliminate.

Answers to general questions:

1. Is it still okay to send my credit card number over SSL? Yes. This attack is not applicable to web shopping and there are much easier ways that fraudsters steal credit card information (e.g., breaking into merchants' web sites -- a problem that SSL can't solve). In any case, the bank is generally responsible if someone steals your card info.

2. Is the paper "real" or another bogus "I broke SSL" claim? The paper is legit. The Slashdot announcement suggests that SSL itself is broken, however, which is a bit misleading.

2. Is this a practical attack to exploit? Cryptographers need to be paranoid about unexpected situations. As a result, attacks can be important even if they are not practical to exploit under real- world conditions. The attack described in this paper is similar; while there are quite a few preconditions for mounting the attack, this does not make the research unimportant or mean that people should ignore the work. Specific requirements to mount the attack include:

  • The session has to use CBC mode. The vast majority of SSL connections use RC4, for which the attack is not applicable. Because of the algorithm negotiation used in SSL/TLS is secured in the initial handshake, man-in-the- middle attackers should not be able affect the outcome of the algorithm selection process.

  • The attacker has to act as an active man-in-the-middle attacker. Passive eavesdropping is not sufficient.
  • The server's SSL implementation has to be vulnerable (see #3 below). The protocol also has to be oblivious to repeated failures.

  • The target protocol also has to have some very specific characteristics that allow the adversary to form the right kinds of messages. For most uses of SSL (e.g., normal web browsing), this type of attack does not generally apply.

3. Can affected implementations be fixed? Yes. OpenSSL has been updated (http://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20030219.txt). For more information, also see http://www.openssl.org/~bodo/tls-cbc.txt. I don't know what other vendors/projects are doing.

4. Is this an issue for the client or the server? Normally, this would only be an issue for the "server" (i.e., the party that receives the connection request), since normal SSL clients don't automatically large numbers of connections.

A couple of final comments:

I'm constantly amazed by the number of ways that it's possible to screw up security. Overall, SSL 3.0 seems to have aged well, but I wish I'd done a better job of handling errors in the design. In particular, error handling was involved in both of the attacks against SSL that I consider non-obvious, notably Bleichenbacher's attack and CBC-padding attacks such as this one. While these types of attacks weren't known when I was designing SSL 3.0, I generally wish I'd provided less information in error messages.

Finally, I also want to give thanks everyone who has helped to study SSL's security, contributed to implementations, and helped shepherd it through the standards processes."

69 of 231 comments (clear)

  1. Ugh... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Swiss Researchers Find A Hole In SSL"

    Isn't that their style?

    Yeah, I know, that joke was cheesey.

    1. Re:Ugh... by Dr+Caleb · · Score: 2, Funny
      "Swiss Researchers Find A Hole In SSL"

      Did anyone else read that as "Swiss Researchers Find A-Hole In SSL" and think, "How did he get there?"

      --
      "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
    2. Re:Ugh... by frenetic3 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Did anyone else read that as "Swiss Researchers Find A-Hole In SSL" and think, "How did he get there?"
      No. No, man. Shit, no. I believe you get your ass kicked saying something like that. :P

      -fren
      --
      "Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?"
  2. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What are the actual implications of this hole? "A different kind of SSL" ? Do they just mean a different cypher/key-strength? And if so, it's then fairly technically incorrect to state "it's just webmail" since last I checked, SSL doesn't know or care about the data being transmitted, and isn't going to up and change the protocol features based on if it's webmail or online shopping; any idiot using the broken/weak encryption would be screwed no matter what data is being transmitted.

    Also, the hole was "passed on to the developers, and will be fixed in the next version of the software." So what, is this just some particular implementation of the SSL protocol? Is it MS', OpenSSL's, whose?

    1. Re:Wait... by Oculus+Habent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Webmail is insecure because it resends the same data (username & password) regularly to the server. Credit Cards submissions and sign-in pages are unlikely to keep sending the same data repetetively.

      Of course, we just need a better webmail application, and you'll be fine.

      --
      That what was all this school was for... to teach us how to solve our own problems. -- janeowit
    2. Re:Wait... by lazira · · Score: 2, Informative
      last I checked, SSL doesn't know or care about the data being transmitted

      Only email is vulnerable because email programs automatically check for new mail at regular intervals. This vulnerability requires that the password be sent frequently to the server. In most other transactions, it's only sent once.

  3. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article (the LASEC memo) cites standard, well-known weaknesses in block ciphers. I haven't heard anyone give some of their specifics before (timing attack might be possible with encrypted error messages, for instance), but it's not really a breakthrough.

  4. The Swiss by bytesmythe · · Score: 5, Funny

    Those damn army knives have a tool for everything nowadays...

    --
    bytesmythe
    Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
    -- Scott Meyer
  5. OpenSSL new version has fix already by linuxbaby · · Score: 5, Informative
    Since not everyone reads the article, don't miss this line from it:

    In the case of openssl [9], a new version has already been released (0.9.7a) with a countermeasure against our attack.

    Released yesterday: http://www.openssl.org

    1. Re:OpenSSL new version has fix already by cicadia · · Score: 5, Informative
      The attack works because the attacker can distinguish between an error in the message padding and an error in the MAC, by careful timing of the wait for the response from the server.

      This is possible because SSL implementations typically abort processing a message immediately if the padding is incorrect, without testing the MAC, meaning that they respond a couple of milliseconds sooner than they would have if the padding was correct.

      The openssl countermeasure is simply to perform a MAC test in all cases, whether the padding was correct or not, before returning an error to the client.

      --
      Living better through chemicals
  6. BASIC? by sharph · · Score: 2, Funny
    An SSL-enhanced browser such as Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator uses encryption to scramble the data you send to a web site into an unintelligible string of seemingly random characters. A typical transaction is a browser sending the contents of an order form to the server, checking emails on an IMAP server, using BASIC authentication to access a password protected part of a website, etc. Let's look at an example showing the difference between unsecure and secure transactions:
    Of course its insecure, they programmed their security in basic. (I'm smarter than this. It's a joke... Laugh.)
  7. A different kind of SSL? by griffjon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "But the researchers say the loophole does not apply to credit card transactions, as banks and e-commerce sites use a different type of SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) technology"

    Um? Well, are they talking about 64 vs 128 bit keys? The article later indicates it's a weakness in sending the same password often within one session, which would be actually, an implementation problem as opposed to an SSL problem. Anyone have a mirror of the actual paper and not ust the bbc article yet?

    --
    Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
    1. Re:A different kind of SSL? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem comes from forming the same strings, crypting them and sending them over and over again. Banking sessions, etc, do not send your authentication tokens over SSL many times, they simply send once, and then set a secure cookie.

      This cookie would be vulnerable (it gets sent with each request) except that each HTTP request is formed with a fair amount of variance in it. More data goes back and forth (requests for HTML files, graphics files, etc) so there isn't that one little message being sent many many times.

      Again, RTFA. The problem comes from the same message being crypted and sent again and again. This is why only very specific things are vulnerable.

    2. Re:A different kind of SSL? by in4mation · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here's the article itself

    3. Re:A different kind of SSL? by cicadia · · Score: 2, Informative
      It sounds like the BBC reporters may have actually talked to the researchers, rather than just repeating what they posted online.

      Most people here seem to be latching on to this quote, as well as the one on the swiss site which mentions that other web-based services using SSL may also be vulnerable, and assuming that a contradiction exists.

      By "a different type of SSL," they may be referring to the SET protocol that machines use when communicating directly with credit card companies. It's been a long time since I looked at SET authentication, but it may not be vulnerable to this sort of attack.

      I can imaging the BBC reporters learning this, through talking to the researchers, and eventually coming up with that line, which implies that e-commerce sites over SSL are safe (which is very likely wrong)

      --
      Living better through chemicals
    4. Re:A different kind of SSL? by Forgotten · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually a cookie such as you describe might well be vulnerable to a leaky-cipher problem like this one, since the HTTP headers are reasonably large, uniformly located (in part because of the punctuated way HTTP is used between browser and server), and generally much the same for subsequent requests. It seems this would probably be worse for, say, RC4 (for the same sorts of reasons as WEP is breakable).

      This is why the cookie is only good for a session and has a short timeout. You may be able to grab some candy, but you can't steal the whole store.

  8. But what if I'm a repetitive compulsive buyer? by djeez · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't know, maybe I'm going to buy 160 different items, one at a time, each time sending my credit card number.

    1. Re:But what if I'm a repetitive compulsive buyer? by T-Daddy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Me I'm just impatient and I keep clicking that submit button until something happens.

    2. Re:But what if I'm a repetitive compulsive buyer? by Some+Dumbass... · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know, maybe I'm going to buy 160 different items, one at a time, each time sending my credit card number.

      That's why eBay is still in business...

  9. Heise and OpenSSL developers tells the opposite by kju · · Score: 4, Informative

    Regarding to what the heise newsticker wrote, this fix IS actually in the implementation and was fixed in OpenSSL 0.9.6i and 0.9.7a. So who is right?

    Heise says: "OpenSSL developers already reacted and issued versions 0.9.7a and 0.9.6i of openssl, which close this security flaw. In a posting on bugtraq they recommend this update for all users." (translation done by me).

    I have read the bugtraq announces as well, they specifically state that the update DOES fix this bug. So it is NOT a bug in the SSL protocol itself, but in the implementation, at least regarding to OpenSSL developers.

    1. Re:Heise and OpenSSL developers tells the opposite by nestler · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's a slight bug in the SSL protocol that is entirely fixeable in the implementation.

      The bug in the protocol is that the RFC says that for block cipher decryption errors, you should report a "decryption failed" alert but for MAC errors you should report a "MAC error" alert. This opens you up to attacks.

      A good implementation will report "MAC error" in both cases, and take the same amount of time to do that reporting in both cases (this is what OpenSSL's fix does). This doesn't follow the RFC but it shuts down this avenue of attack.

      So OpenSSL is safe and the Heise was overstating things in a very misleading way.

    2. Re:Heise and OpenSSL developers tells the opposite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      > Coincidentally, Gentoo Linux already has
      > an ebuild for OpenSSL 0.9.6i [gentoo.org].


      And in a few weeks when Gentoo is done compiling you'll be able to use it!

    3. Re:Heise and OpenSSL developers tells the opposite by lazyl · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Not quite.

      The error messages are encrypted. The attacker can't read them. All his information is based on timing. Because of the implementation a padding error will return faster than a MAC error. After sufficient attempts the attacker can statistically guess which error he's getting. That info can be used to crack the cipher.

      I don't know the details of the OpenSSL fix, but they don't have to change the error message to fix the problem. They just have to change the timing. So it's purely an implementation problem; nothing to do with the protocol.

      I don't know why Vaudenay said (in the interview) that it was a problem with the protocol because according to the LASEC memo, it's not. Vaudenay didn't write the memo, so it's hard to guess how directly involved he was with the work. The project is based on a method of attacking SSL developed by Vaudenay though. From the memo:
      In 2002, Vaudenay [10] presented an attack which enables the decryption of blocks provided that error messages are available (as a side channel attack) and sessions do not abort. This is not the case with TLS/SSL. We can solve the latter problem in the case where a TLS/SSL session includes a/several critical plaintext block which is/are always the same (e.g. a password). The former problem of availability of error messages (encrypted in TLS/SSL) is solved by performing a timing attack i.e. by measuring the taken for error messages to come back from the server. It is then possible to perform the attack over several sessions of TLS/SSL.
      --
      Aw crap, ninjas!
  10. Re:Arg!!!! by delta407 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Relax. It's a possible attack when plaintext is repeated over multiple sessions and a non-critical error occurs that forces a key renegotiation, not something a script kiddie will run and get a list of every credit card number on amazonl.com.

    Besides which, openssl 0.9.7a was released yesterday, and it addresses these issues.

  11. An Hour... by RyansPrivates · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, but who's got an hour to spare these days...

    --
    If at first you don't succeed... How does that go again? Ah, forget it.
  12. banking too by sarice · · Score: 5, Informative
    "Apparantly the flow only affects webmail and not banking or credit card payments"

    The article didn't make that claim, and in fact says:

    TLS/SSL are used in other secure Internet applications such as e-banking and e-commerce meaning that an attacker could potentially intercept banking transactions, credit card numbers, etc.
  13. Huh? We must not have read the same article... by aborchers · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apparantly the flow only affects webmail and not banking or credit card payments

    The linked article reports a timing-based attack that could be used to identify passwords when the encrypted message is repeated, as in the case of communicating with an IMAP server. IMAP is not webmail, it is a mail protocol (a popular alternative to POP3) that is frequently secured with SSL/TLS. Once the password is cracked, it could be used to compromise other resources if the IMAP server and those other resources share the same password. It may not be likely that your bank provides your IMAP server, but it is not as unlikely that an IMAP account might share a password with other network functions that you'd want to keep secured...

    --
    Trouble making decisions? Just flip for it.
    1. Re:Huh? We must not have read the same article... by rp44 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well actually it's any application where interesting plaintext is sent at a known offset in the conversation over and over again.

      I think that this means that HTTP Basic Auth over buggy SSL is vulnerable (in other words password protected web pages). Remember that the Auth header is sent in each and every page request, although its absolute offset in each HTTP req will vary with URI length in the GET/POST header. If this is known though...

  14. Phew! by LongJohnStewartMill · · Score: 3, Funny

    Thank god I'm using Telnet!

  15. Article was totally off by TBC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Reading the BBC Article, they totally missed the point of the original article. It's not webmail that is a problem, but TLS/SSL encrypted IMAP or POP3 sessions. No self-respecting web-mail application sends the user-name and password with every screen. Most use a session key after login. It's not a big deal for webmail users, but for those who use TLS to connect to their IMAP/POP servers, it's an open window.

  16. One hour? by chronus22 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would note that the one hour figure is for a dictionary attack, implying that the password was, in short, a bad one (not many universities/corporations would even allow a normal word as a password for one of their accounts). If a brute force method is used on a 256 character set, the time required is about 26 times as long (26 times greater complexity). Still a major hole, but more than a day is quite different from an hour.

  17. Bank / E-Commerce is also vulnerable (possibly) by Ryquir · · Score: 2, Informative

    Commentor says: "Apparantly the flow only affects webmail and not banking or credit card payments and took less than an hour (160 attempts) to crack."

    The actual linked article says: "TLS/SSL are used in other secure Internet applications such as e-banking and e-commerce meaning that an attacker could potentially intercept banking transactions, credit card numbers, etc."

    Nobody should dismiss a vulnerability just because the exploit was used againest something that "doesnt'" matter. SSL use with IMAP, POP, FTP or any other protocol all relates to each other. Thus a vulnerability in one can lead to more understanding and discovery of more vulnerabilities.

  18. Re:Arg!!!! by Deth_Master · · Score: 2, Informative

    But if you RTFA then you would know that there is a fix already out there for the Linux community at least.

    In the case of openssl [9], a new version has already been released (0.9.7a) with a countermeasure against our attack.

    And I'm glad I was told about this, now I can go and update my server with the latest version of openssl and recompile stuff that links against it, and I'm now secure against the Swiss :)

    --
    find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown :us
  19. flaw is easily avoidable; use RC4 by nestler · · Score: 4, Informative
    The easiest way to avoid this flaw (which unfortunately few people know because of all of the poorly written hype) is to use RC4. The flaw is only present when using block ciphers, and RC4 is a stream cipher.

    This measure can be taken on the client side by setting your browser's SSL preferences. All good SSL-enabled browsers (Mozilla, Opera, etc.; basically anything except IE) will let you disable non-RC4 ciphers for SSL. Turn off RC2, DES, 3DES, and AES. Only leave RC4 suites (or C4 suites as they are called in Opera).

    This measure can be taken on the server side by configuring your web server's SSL configuration to only support RC4 cipher suites (RC4 is the only stream cipher defined in SSL).

    If you are using OpenSSL, they made a new release (0.9.6i and 0.9.7a) yesterday that prevents this attack from working. Basically, they made the new code take identical amounts of time for the block decryption failure vs. the MAC failure which thwarts the timing attack described by LASEC. Even their old code has been smart enough to report the same error on the wire, but the old code had a timing difference (block error would skip the MAC computation).

    This is not the end of the world. This is not an insurmountable flaw in the SSL protocol (although they really shouldn't have specified block decryption error as one of the alert types in the first place).

    Just use RC4 for now and upgrade your web servers when you can.

    1. Re:flaw is easily avoidable; use RC4 by arivanov · · Score: 4, Informative

      RC4 has a history of implementation flaws. It is a good algorithm but it is quite often applied to the wrong problem and IMO anything that is not classic stream and has known plaintext fragments is a "wrong problem". The results of such misapplications are well knonw. MSFT 40 bit PPTP, WEP are just a few fine examples.

      So for this specific case I would personally run away from RC4 like hell.

      Also, in order to do this attack the attacker has to a be a man in the middle with capability to intercept and replace traffic. Outside the scope of a university campus network the possibility for such attack is becoming a very rare occurance as most networks do not have a suitable point to do this without exposing yourself.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    2. Re:flaw is easily avoidable; use RC4 by nestler · · Score: 2, Insightful
      RC4 has a history of implementation flaws. It is a good algorithm but it is quite often applied to the wrong problem and IMO anything that is not classic stream and has known plaintext fragments is a "wrong problem". The results of such misapplications are well knonw. MSFT 40 bit PPTP, WEP are just a few fine examples.

      Those are examples of crypto protocols that were designed by non-cryptographers. SSL/TLS does not fall into that category. Those vulnerabilities were due to very stupid key derivation algorithms ("let's add three to the last RC4 key and use that...").

      SSL's use of a PRF to generate the key material gets around the RC4 key derivation problems present in WEP and in PPTP. The last couple of SSL protocol problems have had to do with block ciphers. RC4 would have protected you in all cases; both this one, as well as an arlier theoretical result about mac-then-encrypt security protocols.

    3. Re:flaw is easily avoidable; use RC4 by ajs · · Score: 2, Informative
      [NOTE: This post assumes you use a UNIX or UNIX-like system and OpenSSH]

      For those of you who are concerned that ssh may be vulnerable (I don't know... it probably won't matter unless you have an automatic process like rsync or fetchmail using ssh to re-connect over and over on a regular basis), you can use "arcfour" as the "Cipher" parameter in openssh. To force this, create a ".ssh/config" file in your home directory with these lines in it:
      Ciphers arcfour
      Protocol 2
      arcfour is known to have security problems with protocol version one, so it's not supported there (or was not last I looked, but that was a Changelog entry from 20000509).

      Good luck.
    4. Re:flaw is easily avoidable; use RC4 by fv · · Score: 4, Insightful
      the attacker has to a be a man in the middle with capability to intercept and replace traffic. Outside the scope of a university campus network the possibility for such attack is becoming a very rare occurance

      I wouldn't say that at all. DNS spoofing is sadly still feasible in many situations and easily gives you this capability. It is trivial if the attacker is on the same layer 2 network (insider attacks are extremely common, and so are outsiders who own one machine on the network and then leverage that for more.) Remember that the SSL certificate validation process won't protect you from this attack, since that part of the protocol is proxied through unmolested.

      -Fyodor
      Concerned about your network security? Try the free Nmap Security Scanner

    5. Re:flaw is easily avoidable; use RC4 by SuperFrink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed eithernet (even switched) is susceptible to a problem where a gratuitous arp is sent (from the bad guy's computer) that causes a machine (victim's computer) to think an IP address (eg the gateway) maps to an incorrect MAC address (the bad guy's NIC).

      Last year a few friends got together and tested ettercap out (in a controlled environment) and sure enough it's trivial to snoop on a machine's traffic. :(

  20. It's a floor wax. No, it's a dessert topping. by kfg · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wait, your *both* right.

    The flaw is in the protocol. OpenSSL has produce a security patch in *their implimentation* that protects the hole in the protocol, but the flaw in the protocol remains.

    All other implimentations that have not been so patched remain vulnerable.

    KFG

    1. Re:It's a floor wax. No, it's a dessert topping. by kju · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ok, but then the slashdot article was some sensation laden journalism. It specificially said that the flaw is in "the SSL protocol itself [...] not [...] how we implement it". So this leads to the impression, that SSL is flawed by principle and could not be fixed without altering the protocol.

      Obviously this is wrong. The OpenSSL developers were able to fix the problem WITHOUT breaking compability to other SSL implementations. So how can this be a problem with the protocol itself, if it can be fixed without actually altering the protocol?

      This does not make real sense.

    2. Re:It's a floor wax. No, it's a dessert topping. by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Imagine that the fuel pump in your car breaks down. You need to get somewhere and don't have the parts to fix the fuel pump, but you do a good stock of odd stuff lying about. So you take a bottle, some hose, and a coat hanger, fill the bottle with gasoline, run the hose into it and hang the lot from your dome light, allowing gravity to feed fuel to the carb. (Yes, I've actally done this. It's a real world example).

      Or, your boat has a hole in the hull, so you dive overboard, throw some canvas and underwater putty over it, and go on your way.

      Your car and boat are still broken and require repairs of their fundamental structure, but, for the moment, can be considered as functioning normally.

      One can kludge software in a like manner at times.

      This is one of those times.

      KFG

  21. Flaw is in OpenSSL implementation, not protocol by seifried · · Score: 5, Informative
    As usual the slashdot editors have gotten it completely wrong. The flaw is NOT in the protocol. It is in the implementation. When checking CBC (Cyclic Block Chaining) packets for errors (i.e. the kind created by a man in the middle attack) two error checks are done. If the first one fails a reply is sent, if the first one passes and the second one fails the same error is sent, but of course it takes a bit longer then if the error had been triggered by the first error check. This allows an attacker to replay data from another users session against the server, creating errors, by knowing which of these errors occured they can mount an adaptive attack and home in on the data. This attack requires an attacker to be able to monitor data between a client and server, as well as establish a connection with the server.

    The fix is pretty trivial, the second error check is done even if the first fails, thus removing any time based information (i.e. data takes about the same time to traverse both checks whether it fails the first or second one), thus denying the attacker the needed information. Fixed versions of OpenSSL have already been released. For more information please see OpenSSL Security Advisory [19 February 2003].

    As a further note the BBC article is wrong, the quote "It is the first time we have noticed a security problem in the SSL protocol itself and not in how we use it or how we implement it" is either a misquote or flaw. If the flaw were in the protocol itself the solution would not consist of a 30 line patch to OpenSSL's error checks.

    1. Re:Flaw is in OpenSSL implementation, not protocol by jaspetry · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hope people take your advice and actually read the OpenSSL Advisory, which does a fairly good job of explaining the problem and the fix. This is an implementation "flaw" only in the sense that the implementation failed to protect against a previously unknown timing attack. OpenSSL is almost certainly not the only implementation to get this wrong. Wonder how long it will be before someone finds this flaw in MS's CryptoAPI libraries?

  22. Only affects IMAPS? by mbogosian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apparantly the flow only affects webmail and not banking or credit card payments

    Technically, the exploit was ideally suited to looking for password information in IMAP/SSL connections, since they are common and frequent. This does not mean the attack is limited to mail-related transactions.

    Since most people's passwords are similar/the same for most of their online accounts, in theory, one could use a knowledge of traffic directed at certain sites under other circumstances originating from the same IP to do the same thing. It would take days/weeks instead of hours, but, since most people don't change their passwords that often, it's still conceivable.

    This is much less likely to be feasible when it comes to ongoing sessions where the place of authentication is aribtrary (as it is with most e-commerce sites like Amazon and Ebay). However, some sites which use HTTP basic auth (since the username/password are in a well-known location) are now in danger.

    What I'm really scared for is the security implication on the new web service protocols which do authentication in a regular, often and predictable way (much like IMAP used in the example), like XML-RPC, SOAP and REST. If SSL is compromised in situations like these, then we've just realized that we're a huge step backward in connection and integration from where we thought we were. At least, that is, until the protocol is fixed (if that's possible).

  23. Re:Not so sure by punkball · · Score: 2, Insightful

    SSL is not immune to man in the middle attacks. Where did you get that?!? Any public key system is vulnerable during the first key exchange.

  24. RFC 2617 explains HTTP Basic Authentication by yerricde · · Score: 3, Informative

    Of course its insecure, they programmed their security in basic.

    Those of us who wonder what the "basic" in HTTP's "basic authentication" really stands for should read RFC 2617.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  25. Eeek by IanBevan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Apparantly the flow only affects webmail...

    Oh no ! Now unauthorised crackers are going to be able to read all my spam ! They'll no doubt have the same problem as me trying to find solicited emails in there somewhere...
  26. More from OpenSSL changelog by XenonOfArcticus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    *) In ssl3_get_record (ssl/s3_pkt.c), minimize information leaked via timing by performing a MAC computation even if incorrrect block cipher padding has been found. This is a countermeasure against active attacks where the attacker has to distinguish between bad padding and a MAC verification error. (CAN-2003-0078)

    I interpret this to mean that all implementations of SSL, including OpenSSL, _could_ have this information leakage behaviour, depending on how they are implemented. OpenSSL did happen to have this behaviour, and has now been altered to take the same amount of time in either case, thus not giving the attacker any useful information.

    --
    -- There is no truth. There is only Perception. To Percieve is to Exist.
  27. Re:SSL mail by scovetta · · Score: 3, Funny

    My college required students to telnet into their vax machine to retrieve mail up until about 4 years ago, when they trashed everything and went to novell webmail.

    I figure this flaw won't affect them till maybe 2015 when they decide that IMAP might be the way to go.

    (shrug)

    --
    Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
  28. Re:SSL mail by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My parents use webmail all the time. They're travel writers and webmail allows them to send and receive mail from anywhere in the world they can gain web access.

    For such people webmail can be the difference between having email and not.

    That said I'm with you on text mode for mail. It's resource friendly and easy to read. After a few obligitory years of going gaa gaa over WYSIWYG, fonts and white backgrounds I've discovered that, oddly enough, text mode is the ideal method of handly pure text.

    Go figure.

    KFG

  29. protocol is slightly flawed by nestler · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The protocol RFC says that you should send different alert codes on the wire for the two different cases which is what this attack needs to work. So the protocol is flawed in the sense that following the RFC to the T makes you vulnerable.

    However, it is not an unfixable problem (implementations can avoid the attack if they so choose) and it is certainly not as dire as the BBC article would make it out to be.

  30. Webmail? by korny69 · · Score: 4, Informative
    The attack deals with reoccuring data being sent between the client, man-in-the-middle, and the server. This deals with any data being sent many times across an SSL session and not just passwords, although passwords coming from a mail client such as Evolution, Outlook, Outlook Express, or whatever is a good example.

    The description is a little misleading with the webmail and not cc info. If I sent my CC info across a SSL session many times, it would be just as bad as an email password.

    Although, if I sent my CC info across any session more than once, I would be asking for it anyways.

    Note: Gentoo and Entrust have already released updated packages for users to install. It will not be long until RedHat, SuSE, and others do as well.

    --

    The biggest security hole sits between the keyboard and chair.
    -Andrew McAllister

  31. SSH not affected by nestler · · Score: 2, Informative

    This flaw is specific to the SSL protocol. OpenSSH only uses OpenSSL's crypto library, not its SSL stack. (Open)SSH should not be affected.

  32. Definitely floor wax. by cicadia · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The exploit is a timing attack; a side-channel attack against an actual implementation of the protocol, not the protocol itself.

    Nearly every crypto protocol has 'flaws' such as this, and power-analysis 'flaws', and other sorts of issues which don't involve the protocol itself, but the fact that it has been implemented in a real-world device.

    In nearly every case, once an attack like this becomes known, the response should be simply "so don't implement it like that anymore". The protocol itself doesn't actually change.

    --
    Living better through chemicals
  33. Not vulnerable to MITM as you describe by Brian+Hatch · · Score: 4, Informative
    SSL is not immune to man in the middle attacks. Where did you get that?!? Any public key system is vulnerable during the first key exchange.

    Bull pucky.

    SSL is not vulnerable to a MITM during key exchange as you describe iff you are verifying certificates. HTTPS, as implemented in web browsers and other software that includes a list of trusted certificate authorities (CAs) does verify certificates. Not only that, but it requires that the common name (CN) match the host name, to prevent me (I have a cert for ssl.example.com) from interposing myself between a client and your server (www.some_domain.com) with my valid CA-signed ssl.example.com certificate.

    Now if you use a client that does not support certificate verification, then yes, you are vulnerable to a MITM. For example when you use SSH and connect to a host for the first time and do not already have a copy of the host key stored on your machine (perhaps you got it on a floppy, loaded it from a web page, or some other method of getting it that you trust) then you must blindly say "Yes, I trust this fingerprint is correct." If you do this, then you may have been MITM'd, and you wouldn't know.

    The best bet in this case is to check the actual server certificate once you log in and make sure that it matches the one you just accepted. You'd need to "cd /etc/ssh; cat ssh_host*.pub" and compare the output of the server keys to the one just entered into your ~/.ssh/known_hosts file. True, if you were MITM'd, then the cracker could be re-writing the keys you read from your cat command, but that's a pretty high bar for it to get over. (You might run 'less' or 'more', etc, so it's difficult for it to know when you're viewing the actual server key.)

    So, in summation, if your use of SSL (or any public-key crypto) doesn't include certificate verification (or the appropriate analog), you are always vulnerable to a MITM attack. Major HTTPS implementations do not fall into this category.

  34. So what the man in the middle does by roystgnr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is receives your public key, and sends his public key to the SSL server in it's place. He also receives the SSL server's public key, and sends his public key to you in it's place. He then decrypts every message you send to the server (which you will have encrypted using his public key, thinking it was the server's public key), reads it, and reencrypts the plaintext using the server's real public key before sending it on to the server.

    Granted, this sort of attack can't be very easy unless he has total control of a router in between you and the server, but unless there's some out of channel way of verifying the private keys (web of trust or certifying authorities, for example) then this is at least theoretically possible.

    1. Re:So what the man in the middle does by redhat421 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This attack is mitigated by checking to make sure the CN matches, and verifing the SSL public key you get is signed by a CA that's in your trusted list. So if an attacker wanted to pull this off, he would need to sign the key with a CA thats in your browser (or get the user to click ok on a warning message).

    2. Re:So what the man in the middle does by dsb3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Granted, this sort of attack can't be very easy unless he has total control of a router in between you and the server ... or he can spoof a DNS reply and thus entice you open your connection to his MITM station in the first place.

      --

      Slashdot? Oh, I just read it for the articles.
  35. Re:Not so sure by blibbleblobble · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "This looks like a 'man in the middle' attack to me, not so much a failure of ssl."

    Okay. I recently suffered a man-in-the-middle attack. I was faced with the choice of using insecure alternatives to communicate, or not being able to read email or update my website.

    My family quite often have problems with secure email. It doesn't take a genius to work out that when their secure email fails, they turn it off and write plaintext emails.

    MitM attacks are not to be sniffed at. With the clueless [or deadline-pressed] public, you can defeat encryption just by scrambling it.

  36. Differences Between Post and Article? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have the feeling the assertions made by the original poster and the researhers are rather different. A few examples:
    "Quoting Professor Serge Vaudenay from a BBC article the security problem is in 'the SSL protocol itself and not in how we use it or how we implement it.'"
    This is different from what it says in the LASEC memo, which identifies a timing attack as necessary to distinguish MAC errors from PAD errors. This suggests that if random delays are added to the error messages, the vulnerability disappears. The article also mentions (obligatory?) that the hole has been fixed in OpenSSL 0.9.7a, which clearly means that the vulnerability is implementation-dependent.

    "Apparantly the flow only affects webmail and not banking or credit card payments and took less than an hour (160 attempts) to crack."
    The LASEC article does not mention webmail at all, it talks about MicroSoft Outlook connecting to an IMAP server as a convenient example of a situation where the attack is fairly easy to carry out. The point is that the information that is being sent is the same every time, so that multiple guesses can be made. Additionally, in the example, Outlook connects to the server and sends the password every 5 minutes, so that multiple guesses can be attemted in a reasonably limited time span. This means that an attack is feasable for services like email, where the same information is transmitted frequently, and harder for services where the frequency is lower, e.g. SSH sessions.

    just my thoughts, I'm not a security expert - yet.

    ---
    All generalizations are false.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  37. Re:SSL mail by Forgotten · · Score: 5, Informative

    It doesn't matter whether you're using webmail (the article is mistaken in this respect). The issue is if you're doing regular periodic mail checks to a POP or IMAP server where you authenticate over a TLS channel. Because you're constantly sending the same credentials, the SSL/TLS weakness can be exploited and the credentials extracted. This is as true of Pine as of Eudora or a browser that keeps refreshing the inbox page. It's somewhat akin to the way 802.11 WEP's weakness is exploited.

    It's long been obvious that periodic mail checks are a great sniffing opportunity for credentials (especially since many people are using the same userid and password elsewhere). Doesn't surprise me that it can also be exploited to break SSL/TLS. From that angle I would say that part of the overall issue is after all the way we're using TLS (though the underlying leakiness is how the exploit actually occurs). The problem is, what do you do instead?

  38. This is not a new vulnerability by apankrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article in question merely extends previously announced Vaudenay attack against CBC-based symmetric ciphers.

    Vaudenay algorithm is a Man-in-the-Middle type of an attack that relies on SSL error messages (invalid_pad and invalid_mac) to effeciently deduce message padding information and (somehow) use it to bruteforce the key.

    The attack in current article merely fights the fact that certain SSL/TLS versions do not provide error feedback that is required by the Vaudenay algorithm. So, they measure server response time instead and use it to estimate how much of the message processing the server has performed prior to failing the exchange. This obviously provides a missing information to the Vaudenay algorithm so that it can function as designed.

    --
    3.243F6A8885A308D313
  39. SWISS CHeesE by ksplatter · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Swiss are all about Holes huh? First Swiss Cheese, Now This!

    Did you know that they invented Donut Holes as well. No Actually a man names James Vindenhaffer broke into the Duncan Donuts research facility and went through all of the garbage. He first tried to glue all the Holes together to make new donuts but after being frustrasted with their odd shapes decided to leave a good thing untouched.

    This is where Jamie BrickenHymer took over. After buying a holeless Donut from a Donut shop in Clevland Ohio he wondered where all the other Donut Holes went. Little did he know that he was being bugged by Micrsoft. 3 Days later Microsoft had the patent for the Donut Hole and sold the Rights to Dunkin Donuts for 43 Billion Dollars.

  40. email... by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The one service I can think of that this poses a serious threat to is email (especially POP3, IMAP could be secured by varying the length of the identifier, rendering the position of the password unpredictable), as it's one of the few services that send the password often. Well, it's not like email is in any way confidential; it's usually sent over unencrypted connections anyway. The real danger is in using the same password with multiple services, which opens up all those services once the password is obtained from any one of them.

    I read all my email over an SSH link to the mail server, using the mail client installed there. This means I send my password over the net about once a week, namely only when I open a new SSH session. My /. pass is a different story, but that's a different password anyway.

    ---
    Anyone who believes that corporate research can or should replace university research deserves to live in a world where this has taken place.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  41. There's a much bigger hole by crosbie · · Score: 2, Interesting
    1) Create a spoof website that impersonates a login page of a eCommerce/eBank site of your choice.

    2) Send a junk mail (to everyone - false hits don't matter) advertising a special offer or something to get people keen to click the URL to your spoof login.

    3) 99% of punters will a) not look for the 's' on https, and b) not look for the weeny padlock icon.

    4) Harvest the passwords, use 'em, and then scarper.

    SSL is only secure if a) the user knows how to be sure that it's in use, and b) can trust their own PC.

  42. Re:Compatibility without complete compliance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're wrong.

    The only information leaked to the attacker is the amount of time elapsed between sending the bogus packet and getting the error response. The attacker can't decrypt the error response without having the key. The ONLY change in OpenSSL is that it performs a redundant check so that the same amount of time will elapse in either case. This is 100% compatable with the spec.

  43. Giggle. by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny


    Q: Is it still okay to send my credit card number over SSL?

    A: Yes, after last weekend everyone already knows your credit card number anyway, so don't worry about it.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  44. OpenSSL bug; NSS not vulnerable by madbrain · · Score: 2, Insightful

    FYI, Netscape fixed this bug in NSS in 1998. No Netscape or Sun SSL servers released since then have been vulnerable to the attack as a result.

    This is merely a problem in OpenSSL, and it doesn't affect SSL in general.

    --
    -- Julien Pierre http://www.madbrain.com/blog